Original Peralta Stone Map Photos

[Matthew Roberts]

Several people have emailed and sent me PM's inquiring about the original Peralta Stone Maps before they showed up in the
Arizona Dept. of Mines and Mineral Resources Museum.
Below are 8 photographs of the original Stone Map photos as they appeared when Travis Tumlinson and Clarence Mitchell
were working on deciphering the carvings. The photos were taken before the Stone Maps left the possession of Tumlinson
and Mitchell. These were the photos used by Mitchell to try and locate the Peralta Treasure. He carried the photos in the
mountains with him while searching. In 1961 Mitchell became the sole owner of the Stone Map carvings when Travis Tumlinson
passed away. Some parts of the maps were covered by Tumlinson and Mitchell with black tape to hide certain important areas
they did not want others to know about in case the photos fell into the wrong hands. This is the best evidence I know of that
the Peralta Stone Maps looked like in their original condition. It is my personal opinion that the only original part of the
Peralta Stone Maps that eventually showed up at the ADMMR Museum is the Heart insert.



Trail Map without the Heart insert.


Trail Map with Heart insert.


Trail Map Cross


Trail Map 2


Trail Map 2 DON


Priest Stone


Horse Stone


MIGUEL on top of Priest/Horse Stone

 

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[cw0909]

Matthew Roberts, the imgs you posted are the imgs in Travis Marlows'
book "Superstition Treasures" (1965)
found here in chapter PDFs
The Peralta Stone Maps

i was just looking at them 2 days ago, and thinking about the new info from Ryan
IE, why would Travis Tumlinson have to hide points, on the stone maps if he carved
the stone maps,and knew the info on the stone maps that he TT carved, would be of
no use for anyone using them to look for treasure

JMO, i dont think TT knew by either name, Clarence Mitchell aka Travis Marlow
and ive wondered about who Jack really was.

 

[Roadhse2]

I have to wonder why he would carve them at all if he had the original map to go by? No one would ever know of any map unless he released the information. So no need to carve something misleading in the first place.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew Roberts, the imgs you posted are the imgs in Travis Marlows'
book "Superstition Treasures" (1965)
found here in chapter PDFs
The Peralta Stone Maps

i was just looking at them 2 days ago, and thinking about the new info from Ryan
IE, why would Travis Tumlinson have to hide points, on the stone maps if he carved
the stone maps,and knew the info on the stone maps that he TT carved, would be of
no use for anyone using them to look for treasure

JMO, i dont think TT knew by either name, Clarence Mitchell aka Travis Marlow
and ive wondered about who Jack really was.

cw0909,

Yes these photos are included in Travis Marlowe's book Superstition Treasures. Nice that you have them but many people don't have access to them and it is for them that they are posted here.

As far as the "new" information from Ryan, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to. That does not make any "new" information trump any "old" information and is certainly not the complete story.
Ryan is entitled to tell his story without interference from anyone.

You say TT carved the stone maps. that has never been proven to be true. It is a belief by some that he did but by no means a fact.

The only reason the tape was placed on certain items on the Stone Maps was because Marlowe-Mitchell carried those photos with him
in the mountains and did not want all the information on the photos in case they fell into the wrong hands. I mentioned that in my top post,
I guess you missed that.

Again you are free to believe whatever you want. Tumlinson and Marlowe-Mitchell were acquainted from at least 1955 on.
There are several letters between them, the earliest when Marlowe-Mitchell was living in Leavenworth before he moved to Apache Junction.

"Jack" was Travis Tumlinson. His true identity in Superstition Treasures was used as an alias in response to Alleen Tumlinson's request
not to publically identify the Tumlinson family as the locator of the Peralta Stone Maps.

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I have to wonder why he would carve them at all if he had the original map to go by? No one would ever know of any map unless he released the information. So no need to carve something misleading in the first place.

Roadhse2,

You are right, there is no proof Travis Tumlinson carved the stone maps or carved them with misleading symbols.
Some people believe that he did but it is their belief and opinion, not fact. Those people are entitled to believe
whatever they want.

Matthew

 

[releventchair]

A couple interesting heart shapes.

Flint & Walling Mfg. Co, Kendallville, IN regulator pump 21 lbs.
Windmill weight. Not the only style/manufacturer.



The one below is by an unknown manufacturer and weighs fifty lbs..



From:Windmill Weight Photographs

 

[Azquester]

Clearly visible is Sonora Mex on the front of the Priest Map.

We have obvious Forgeries being made later on.

Several people have emailed and sent me PM's inquiring about the original Peralta Stone Maps before they showed up in the
Arizona Dept. of Mines and Mineral Resources Museum.
Below are 8 photographs of the original Stone Map photos as they appeared when Travis Tumlinson and Clarence Mitchell
were working on deciphering the carvings. The photos were taken before the Stone Maps left the possession of Tumlinson
and Mitchell. These were the photos used by Mitchell to try and locate the Peralta Treasure. He carried the photos in the
mountains with him while searching. In 1961 Mitchell became the sole owner of the Stone Map carvings when Travis Tumlinson
passed away. Some parts of the maps were covered by Tumlinson and Mitchell with black tape to hide certain important areas
they did not want others to know about in case the photos fell into the wrong hands. This is the best evidence I know of that
the Peralta Stone Maps looked like in their original condition. It is my personal opinion that the only original part of the
Peralta Stone Maps that eventually showed up at the ADMMR Museum is the Heart insert.


View attachment 1197935
Trail Map without the Heart insert.

View attachment 1197936
Trail Map with Heart insert.

View attachment 1197937
Trail Map Cross

View attachment 1197938
Trail Map 2

View attachment 1197939
Trail Map 2 DON

View attachment 1197940
Priest Stone

View attachment 1197941
Horse Stone

View attachment 1197942
MIGUEL on top of Priest/Horse Stone

 

[somehiker]

Other examples......https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...oTCIu3qpPlo8cCFYlPkgodbjMBEQ&biw=1169&bih=703

 

[Azquester]

I've been looking for this Hiker to show you those square stones are some kind of campsite or ritual symbol. Notice the standing man doing the ritual in the background to the right of the square.
Please tell me what you think this is in my archives and I know right where every photo was shot you might say I have a photo / map placement memory. I looked closer. The Man has a birds head and next to it is a circular object represented in stone next to a dagger left of the man wearing a cloak over his arm.

View attachment 1198761

 

[somehiker]

I don't know Bill.....guess my brain ain't wired the same as yours when it comes to seeing all this stuff.
But that cartoonie fella at the upper left, looking down at the square rock is kinda cool.

 

[releventchair]

The mans feet are about level with the top of the square. About 2:00 from top of square stone, in first ridge of rock uphill from and nearest the stone.

 

[Hal Croves]

cw0909,

Yes these photos are included in Travis Marlowe's book Superstition Treasures. Nice that you have them but many people don't have access to them and it is for them that they are posted here.

As far as the "new" information from Ryan, you are entitled to believe whatever you want to. That does not make any "new" information trump any "old" information and is certainly not the complete story.
Ryan is entitled to tell his story without interference from anyone.

You say TT carved the stone maps. that has never been proven to be true. It is a belief by some that he did but by no means a fact.

The only reason the tape was placed on certain items on the Stone Maps was because Marlowe-Mitchell carried those photos with him
in the mountains and did not want all the information on the photos in case they fell into the wrong hands. I mentioned that in my top post,
I guess you missed that.

Again you are free to believe whatever you want. Tumlinson and Marlowe-Mitchell were acquainted from at least 1955 on.
There are several letters between them, the earliest when Marlowe-Mitchell was living in Leavenworth before he moved to Apache Junction.

"Jack" was Travis Tumlinson. His true identity in Superstition Treasures was used as an alias in response to Alleen Tumlinson's request
not to publically identify the Tumlinson family as the locator of the Peralta Stone Maps.

Matthew

Matthew Roberts,

I just finished watching Video 8. For anyone interested in the stone maps, its well worth watching and I think a respectable effort on the producers part. With that said, there are a few problem moments that I am struggling to understand. Most obvious would be Billy Lawain Tumlinson. Billy introduced himself as the nephew of Travis, his mother being the sister of Travis. It may be an innocent mistake but this can not be correct.

Here is the correct genealogy.

Peter Frank Tumlinson son was James West Tumllinson. James married Emily Fannie Cragg in 1867 and they had Joseph Marion Tumlinson in 1875. Joseph M. married Julia Adell Wiley in 1893 and they had Peter Edward in 1910. Peter E. married his cousin, Willie Gladys Tumlinson, (the sister of Travis). Willie gave birth to Billy Lawain Sr. and in turn he had a son named Billy Lawain Jr. I believe that the man in the video may be Billy Lawain Jr. who's grandmother was the sister of Travis. Billy Lawain Jr. should have been born in the mid 1960's if I am correct.

I could be wrong but I don't think that I am.

If this is right, Billy should be given the chance to explain himself
If I am wrong and I may be, I apologize to Billy and Ryan in advance.
Bill looks remarkable young and it would help to confirm if he is Sr. or. Jr..

 

[gollum]

BUMP

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew Roberts,

I just finished watching Video 8. For anyone interested in the stone maps, its well worth watching and I think a respectable effort on the producers part. With that said, there are a few problem moments that I am struggling to understand. Most obvious would be Billy Lawain Tumlinson. Billy introduced himself as the nephew of Travis, his mother being the sister of Travis. It may be an innocent mistake but this can not be correct.

Here is the correct genealogy.

Peter Frank Tumlinson son was James West Tumllinson. James married Emily Fannie Cragg in 1867 and they had Joseph Marion Tumlinson in 1875. Joseph M. married Julia Adell Wiley in 1893 and they had Peter Edward in 1910. Peter E. married his cousin, Willie Gladys Tumlinson, (the sister of Travis). Willie gave birth to Billy Lawain Sr. and in turn he had a son named Billy Lawain Jr. I believe that the man in the video may be Billy Lawain Jr. who's grandmother was the sister of Travis. Billy Lawain Jr. should have been born in the mid 1960's if I am correct.

I could be wrong but I don't think that I am.

If this is right, Billy should be given the chance to explain himself
If I am wrong and I may be, I apologize to Billy and Ryan in advance.
Bill looks remarkable young and it would help to confirm if he is Sr. or. Jr..

Hal,

Concerning the Video 8 In Search of the Truth, .............. I had the same impression when I first watched the #8 video. Billy Lawain Tumlinson Sr. and Jr. may be mixed up in that video I'm not sure. I know that brothers, sons, cousins and uncles and aunts and second cousins and all that can be very confusing to keep it all straight.

Matthew

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

Concerning the Video 8 In Search of the Truth, .............. I had the same impression when I first watched the #8 video. Billy Lawain Tumlinson Sr. and Jr. may be mixed up in that video I'm not sure. I know that brothers, sons, cousins and uncles and aunts and second cousins and all that can be very confusing to keep it all straight.

Matthew

I am not sure of anything at this point. All I know is that Billy looks much younger than he should. That's only because I am looking at genealogical data and not pictures of people. Billy Sr. must be in his 70's. If that's him, god bless him for staying so healthy looking. I was expecting a much older looking man and meant no disrespect.

I think its fair to ask for clarification. Is the man in the video Sr. or Jr.? It doesn't say in the title introduction or anywhere in the video.
Its unclear and I simply want to confirm it.

Its important.

The not so obvious problem with the video is the red rock theory. That same rock is found locally in Texas according to the Tumlinsons. That supports the idea of Travis carving the stones. But, both men in the video say that the trail stones they remember don't match (in texture and color) the stones in the museum. The stones being compared to Frank's red rock. I think that the red rock is just a red rock and more of a distraction than anything else.

Use proper name titles in introductions Sr., Jr. and put the red rock on a shelf and it would be a great video.

 

[cw0909]

Hal in vid 7 Joe says @ about 6:52, he was 12/13 when TT passed in 1961
so that makes Joe about 67/68, so i think he is Joe sr.

Matthew Roberts,

I just finished watching Video 8. For anyone interested in the stone maps, its well worth watching and I think a respectable effort on the producers part. With that said, there are a few problem moments that I am struggling to understand. Most obvious would be Billy Lawain Tumlinson. Billy introduced himself as the nephew of Travis, his mother being the sister of Travis. It may be an innocent mistake but this can not be correct.

Here is the correct genealogy.

Peter Frank Tumlinson son was James West Tumllinson. James married Emily Fannie Cragg in 1867 and they had Joseph Marion Tumlinson in 1875. Joseph M. married Julia Adell Wiley in 1893 and they had Peter Edward in 1910. Peter E. married his cousin, Willie Gladys Tumlinson, (the sister of Travis). Willie gave birth to Billy Lawain Sr. and in turn he had a son named Billy Lawain Jr. I believe that the man in the video may be Billy Lawain Jr. who's grandmother was the sister of Travis. Billy Lawain Jr. should have been born in the mid 1960's if I am correct.

I could be wrong but I don't think that I am.

If this is right, Billy should be given the chance to explain himself
If I am wrong and I may be, I apologize to Billy and Ryan in advance.
Bill looks remarkable young and it would help to confirm if he is Sr. or. Jr..

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal in vid 7 Joe says @ about 6:52, he was 12/13 when TT passed in 1961
so that makes Joe about 67/68, so i think he is Joe sr.

Alright. That sounds reasonable. Joe, someone I am growing fond of and find completely believable, is 68. Billy, the person that I am righting about, must have fathered his six year old child when he was 67/68 and should now be in his mid 70's. The Billy in Video 8 looks much younger than that. Factor in the young child and it is not an unreasonable question.


All I am looking for is a Sr. or Jr. after the name for clarity.

 

[cw0909]

sorry Hal i cut my txt off in the cut paste, any way and in vid 8 billy says that
TT is his mothers brother @ about 3min in, and ill have to go find the mark
again for... when Billy is talking about when TT bought the new car, it seems
he is remembering the event shortly after Billy mentions going out hunt as a
child, JMO im thinking Billy is about the right age late 60s early 70s

on a side...my mother is 82, a trip bypass, 2 back surgery,breast cancer survivor
all since 1995, 1999 2001, 2004, and still looks 70-75, and now has
http://www.mds-foundation.org/ and is on vacation at the moment, we expect her
back in 3wks, i guess some hold age well

 

[Hal Croves]

sorry Hal i cut my txt off in the cut paste, any way and in vid 8 billy says that
TT is his mothers brother @ about 3min in, and ill have to go find the mark
again for... when Billy is talking about when TT bought the new car, it seems
he is remembering the event shortly after Billy mentions going out hunt as a
child, JMO im thinking Billy is about the right age late 60s early 70s

on a side...my mother is 82, a trip bypass, 2 back surgery,breast cancer survivor
all since 1995, 1999 2001, 2004, and still looks 70-75, and now has
http://www.mds-foundation.org/ and is on vacation at the moment, we expect her
back in 3wks, i guess some hold age well

No problem.
I just have dozens of names that I try to juggle and connect and since there are two Billy L's, a Sr. & a Jr. I want to be clear about which one I am listening to.
100 percent clear.

Your mother sounds like the typical 80 something year old.
They built them extra strong back then and even stronger the generation before.

Today, not so much.
Good health to her.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

congrats CW. Well to her actually.