Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[gollum]

Mike,

I can't help what every person "knows". That includes you. I only know what I know. The rest is guesswork based on qualified investigation and research.

I have been run down on this forum any number of time, often without my name being mentioned. I didn't see you jumping up with your superior intuition and ragging on those people. Don't know who you are "swapping spit with in the shower" and don't really care. I tried to be a friend to you, giving way more than I ever got. You had to make your own way, and that's fine with me.

Don't know if Jesse was pushed or simply fell into that crevice, not a clue. I have heard all of the rumors, and don't believe any of them. I have complete trust in a few men in the Dutch Hunting Community, and know who has been lying to me and who has and is stabbing me in the back. See if you can figure out who that person is. From what you have written, I doubt you know.

I have said very good things about Jim Hatt, as well as Matthew Roberts. That doesn't mean I have closed my eyes to the reality of either man. I have told a number of people here, that I hope Matthew returns after being banned. The man is really a fount of historical information and may be able to tell us a lot more about Walter Gassler. Unfortunately, mass deletions are the usual MO when he is "insulted".

IMHO, there ought to be a law.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,

First let me say this; I know that at least some of why you say the things to me you do are because you don't want me to fall into some trap and publicly back things that may show up to be false. That is one of those things you do that I believe you are trying to look out for my best interests. I know some of it also has to do with y'alls feuding too. HAHAHA Don't ever think that EVERYTHING you have done has gone either unnoticed or thankless. In all these years, I have been used twice. Both times with my express consent. Th first time was on Feldman's Forum. I don't remember who it was, but someone was attacking Tom K about something. Jim was feuding with a bunch of people as usual, so after the whole thing when (I think it was) KRF threatened me, and I didn't take that very well (ahem, to say the least HAHAHA), was when Jim noticed me. He asked me to post something from him about Tom. One other time (on Feldman's Forum again) when someone that had been banned asked me to answer someone's question for them.

I have taken your side several times over the years (between Feldman's Forum, DUSA, here, and in private conversations). I have always thought (and publicly state quite often) that I think you are a very good guy. I have also never been shy about saying that you HAVE done some very kind things for me that you didn't have to. My point is that Matthew has been banned from TNet for a while now, and so many of your posts still reference him unnecessarily. Yes, I know that a simple TOR Browser Account can change your public IP Address at the push of a button, and that is all anyone needs to fake out the mods. I have even warned the mods about that for other people, but they chose to blow it/me off. Whatever.

Judging from your reply, you missed my point completely. I am not defending or standing up for ANYBODY! If you and ANYBODY are going at it, I typically stay out completely (because a grown man can handle his own arguments). If you had been banned instead of Matthew, and Matthew consistently posted jibes at you (when you are not able to defend yourself), I would be posting the EXACT same thing to him right now! I don't think anyone here thinks that I am either stupid or naive. Nobody is using me for anything. You are right though, that I do have to make my own way in this. While (again) you have helped me when I needed it, so have several other people. I like to meet and get to know as many people as I can. I like to talk and listen to everybody that is knowledgeable on the subject, to get as many viewpoints as I can.

This is the last time I will explain this; in the one time Matthew and I hung out (Buffalo Wild Wings), we had a discussion about a few things that have been referenced time and again. The answers to the questions I posed to him were reasonable. He also told me that if I ever had any questions about his veracity on a subject, that I should contact him directly and right away. I thought that to be a reasonable request, and not one that a pathological liar would make. Based on that and a discussion with another very knowledgeable person that has also known Matthew for many years, I felt I had unfairly treated the man. The only thing I will say about our discussions is that Matthew is not like me. He is a very private person. Many questions he could answer, he won't publicly. Myself, I am not shy about anything I have ever done in my life. It made me who I am today (don't know if that's good or bad HAHAHA).

Everybody is free to believe what they want about anything. You are free to like or dislike anybody you want. Just know that if you judge someone without knowing them personally, you are foolish. Joe and Matthew have known each other since long before I showed up on the scene, and Joe feels the way he does. He is absolutely entitled to feel however he wants. I know precisely why Joe feels the way he does. He has said so on many occasions. I know that to say you and Jim couldn't stand each other would be an understatement, but since Jim's Death, you have absolutely taken the high road and have not spoken ill of him since. I do admire that.

Take Care - Mike

 

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[RWGassler]

Mike,
You are correct. He did not have a framed backpack but a knapsack/backpack and it was left on him. Ref. post to Bill. Once again, as I look at the posts there are a number of statements made and data presented from other sources that are not accurate. I would just say take every thing with a grain of salt and verify the facts don't assume anything.
RWGassler

 

[captain1965]

What about the possibility of Walt (while experiencing heart issues) simply told a passing hiker about his find. Mabe Walt showed some gold and asked whomever if they would inform Tom K. and Bob C. of his find. This would explain why the fake Roland new about Tom and Bob's involvement. Just a thought.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

First let me say this; I know that at least some of why you say the things to me you do are because you don't want me to fall into some trap and publicly back things that may show up to be false. That is one of those things you do that I believe you are trying to look out for my best interests. I know some of it also has to do with y'alls feuding too. HAHAHA Don't ever think that EVERYTHING you have done has gone either unnoticed or thankless. In all these years, I have been used twice. Both times with my express consent. Th first time was on Feldman's Forum. I don't remember who it was, but someone was attacking Tom K about something. Jim was feuding with a bunch of people as usual, so after the whole thing when (I think it was) KRF threatened me, and I didn't take that very well (ahem, to say the least HAHAHA), was when Jim noticed me. He asked me to post something from him about Tom. One other time (on Feldman's Forum again) when someone that had been banned asked me to answer someone's question for them.

I have taken your side several times over the years (between Feldman's Forum, DUSA, here, and in private conversations). I have always thought (and publicly state quite often) that I think you are a very good guy. I have also never been shy about saying that you HAVE done some very kind things for me that you didn't have to. My point is that Matthew has been banned from TNet for a while now, and so many of your posts still reference him unnecessarily. Yes, I know that a simple TOR Browser Account can change your public IP Address at the push of a button, and that is all anyone needs to fake out the mods. I have even warned the mods about that for other people, but they chose to blow it/me off. Whatever.

Judging from your reply, you missed my point completely. I am not defending or standing up for ANYBODY! If you and ANYBODY are going at it, I typically stay out completely (because a grown man can handle his own arguments). If you had been banned instead of Matthew, and Matthew consistently posted jibes at you (when you are not able to defend yourself), I would be posting the EXACT same thing to him right now! I don't think anyone here thinks that I am either stupid or naive. Nobody is using me for anything. You are right though, that I do have to make my own way in this. While (again) you have helped me when I needed it, so have several other people. I like to meet and get to know as many people as I can. I like to talk and listen to everybody that is knowledgeable on the subject, to get as many viewpoints as I can.

This is the last time I will explain this; in the one time Matthew and I hung out (Buffalo Wild Wings), we had a discussion about a few things that have been referenced time and again. The answers to the questions I posed to him were reasonable. He also told me that if I ever had any questions about his veracity on a subject, that I should contact him directly and right away. I thought that to be a reasonable request, and not one that a pathological liar would not make. Based on that and a discussion with another very knowledgeable person that has also known Matthew for many years, I felt I had unfairly treated the man. The only thing I will say about our discussions is that Matthew is not like me. He is a very private person. Many questions he could answer, he won't publicly. Myself, I am not shy about anything I have ever done in my life. It made me who I am today (don't know if that's good or bad HAHAHA).

Everybody is free to believe what they want about anything. You are free to like or dislike anybody you want. Just know that if you judge someone without knowing them personally, you are foolish. Joe and Matthew have known each other since long before I showed up on the scene, and Joe feels the way he does. He is absolutely entitled to feel however he wants. I know precisely why Joe feels the way he does. He has said so on many occasions. I know that to say you and Jim couldn't stand each other would be an understatement, but since Jim's Death, you have absolutely taken the high road and have not spoken ill of him since. I do admire that.

Take Care - Mike

Mike,

"Judging from your reply, you missed my point completely".

Missing your point is not the same as seeing it from a different perspective, and totally disagreeing with it. Thing is, I have been where you are now.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Azquester]

I was referring too a knapsack or a bag with two arm straps and a waist belt sort of like what all the illegals use for crossing the border simple but you can carry a lot in it. He probably had stuff stashed near his campsite for food water etc. I think but I'm not sure that Feldman was referring to a one time pack he had into the same place as Walter was found who had the first name Mitch and he never saw the man again. Maybe a lead for the fake Roland who knows? It just might be worth checking out with Ron and Tom. If Don told Ron it was that man why would he be so afraid of being killed by him? Unless he was there for Crazy Jake I guess.

Is that what you were referring to Bill?


Mike

 

[Azquester]

A lot of this just doesn't add up. How in the world would this man that faked another man without the help of a close family related friend know about the son and Tom's conversations with Bob? In two or less days? Back in 1984 there was no databases that you could access like today it would have to be someone close to him or the family or coached by someone with access to those records.

It just doesn't add up!

 

[captain1965]

A lot of this just doesn't add up. How in the world would this man that faked another man without the help of a close family related friend know about the son and Tom's conversations with Bob? In two or less days? Back in 1984 there was no databases that you could access like today it would have to be someone close to him or the family or coached by someone with access to those records.

It just doesn't add up!

Does my post (#243) possibly answer this?

 

[Azquester]

Captain1965,

It's one possibility but just how in the world would a dying man explain his whole life story with details about TK, BC and RG? Also he would have to explain his manuscript and ore samples so the person would look believable while talking to TK.

That's quite a stretch it's more plausible that the fake Roland was someone close to Walter or knew him and his wife. It could be the work of a writer bent on selling some books. Who stands to profit from his manuscript or the fake guy story? Was it the guy in California? Did Walter put someone up to this knowing he was going to die? Not hardly I don't think. Something stinks badly! Did Walter show a lot of people his ore samples? Did he even have any ore samples and if he did how did TK recognize them as being similar to the Dutchman ore? Or his Ore?

Two days after he was found dead this fake guy shows up and takes his notes and manuscript! Fast work I would say but not impossible to do. I think it could have been a Government man or his phone and house was bugged. Maybe a Private investigator hired by Crazy Jake?

This tells me he was on to something big if someone went to all that trouble to grab the rest of his notes which probably had no real value and this person was steamed afterwards. I think he probably put his real thoughts and directions to the mine in safe place possibly hidden in his home or nearby maybe a secret safe deposit box Roland might know if he had any things like that. Could be in the wall of his house or under a floorboard of his house. Or maybe he coded it for his son to find someday in some random writing he left. Who knows? Only Walter did and he's no longer with us. We can only speculate wildly after the only known facts have shed light. Secrets sometimes get lost forever if the person dies suddenly on his quest and hasn't the time to leave the clues.

Does my post (#243) possibly answer this?

 

[RWGassler]

Bill,
I will say this one more time even though I know it will bring scorn from some members.
1. Everyone assumes there was a fake Roland. That is not necessarily the case.
2. Why would Unsolved Mysteries be interested in someone who just happened to pass away in the Superstitions. A lot of people die some in the Superstitions and they don't get the notoriety that my father did.
3. Who contacted the series and persuaded them to do the story. I believe it was either Tom K. or Bob C.
4. Does anyone think that Unsolved Mysteries would be interested in doing a story on the Lost Dutchman or Superstitions without some mysterious unexplained event.
5. I agree that a number of things don't add up. Again, I have a hard time believing anyone would know about the manuscript other than Tim and Bob. The manuscript was given to Bob not Tom. Bob would have to had given it to Tom. I seriously doubt that once they received the manuscript they would go around letting people know it existed and who had copies. I'm not sure people would know that I was Walter's son except for Tom and Bob at least those interested in the LDM.
6. How would anyone know my father had a conversation with Tom and Bob just before his trip.
7. If there was gold ore samples shown to Tom by the "fake Roland" they didn't come from my father. What benefit would showing samples to Tom have. I doubt very much that a true hunter would give details of there finds.

Frankly, I think all of this was done to create mystery and keep the legend going.
RWGassler

 

[Oroblanco]

Bill,
I will say this one more time even though I know it will bring scorn from some members.
1. Everyone assumes there was a fake Roland. That is not necessarily the case.
2. Why would Unsolved Mysteries be interested in someone who just happened to pass away in the Superstitions. A lot of people die some in the Superstitions and they don't get the notoriety that my father did.
3. Who contacted the series and persuaded them to do the story. I believe it was either Tom K. or Bob C.
4. Does anyone think that Unsolved Mysteries would be interested in doing a story on the Lost Dutchman or Superstitions without some mysterious unexplained event.
5. I agree that a number of things don't add up. Again, I have a hard time believing anyone would know about the manuscript other than Tim and Bob. The manuscript was given to Bob not Tom. Bob would have to had given it to Tom. I seriously doubt that once they received the manuscript they would go around letting people know it existed and who had copies. I'm not sure people would know that I was Walter's son except for Tom and Bob at least those interested in the LDM.
6. How would anyone know my father had a conversation with Tom and Bob just before his trip.
7. If there was gold ore samples shown to Tom by the "fake Roland" they didn't come from my father. What benefit would showing samples to Tom have. I doubt very much that a true hunter would give details of there finds.

Frankly, I think all of this was done to create mystery and keep the legend going.
RWGassler

I would rather that you tell your own story and your own words. Apparently it is OK to try to discredit Tom K, and now Bob C., the Unsolved Mysteries producers and or directors, perhaps their research team as well as others that would be quite a list, to prepare the way for a different version of events. So by all means, tell your story, do proceed in your own words.

 

[gollum]

Bill,
I will say this one more time even though I know it will bring scorn from some members.
1. Everyone assumes there was a fake Roland. That is not necessarily the case.
2. Why would Unsolved Mysteries be interested in someone who just happened to pass away in the Superstitions. A lot of people die some in the Superstitions and they don't get the notoriety that my father did.
3. Who contacted the series and persuaded them to do the story. I believe it was either Tom K. or Bob C.
4. Does anyone think that Unsolved Mysteries would be interested in doing a story on the Lost Dutchman or Superstitions without some mysterious unexplained event.
5. I agree that a number of things don't add up. Again, I have a hard time believing anyone would know about the manuscript other than Tim and Bob. The manuscript was given to Bob not Tom. Bob would have to had given it to Tom. I seriously doubt that once they received the manuscript they would go around letting people know it existed and who had copies. I'm not sure people would know that I was Walter's son except for Tom and Bob at least those interested in the LDM.
6. How would anyone know my father had a conversation with Tom and Bob just before his trip.
7. If there was gold ore samples shown to Tom by the "fake Roland" they didn't come from my father. What benefit would showing samples to Tom have. I doubt very much that a true hunter would give details of there finds.

Frankly, I think all of this was done to create mystery and keep the legend going.
RWGassler

Roland (if I may),

1. Point taken, never assume anything

2. I think you are giving too much credit to th Television Show/Production Company for being picky about what they air! HAHAHA Many people do die in the Supers, but how many of them had hunted the Dutchman for over fifty years .............. and most importantly, how many of them ran around telling people they knew exactly where the Dutchman was, and he couldn't wait, He went in and died before being able to tell the world. The way the body was found (especially Don Shade seeing the guy on the ridge above your dad, I think there is PLENTY of meat on that bone for ANY TV Show.

3. No clue, but having done stunts in three movies, consulted on a couple of TV Shows, and almost made the little screen once "Legends", I have a good idea of how things went to get your dad's story: The producers of every TV Show are ALWAYS on the lookout for new stories. They have a bunch of AP's (Associate Producers) and assistants combing the internet, newspaper articles, old books, and a million other sources looking for little known stories that jibe with the theme of the show they work for. I imagine they were likely doing a story on the UBER FAMOUS Lost Dutchman Mine. When most any TV Show about the Dutchman comes to town, there are typically certain people they look for (Ron Feldman, Ton Kollenborn, Bob Corbin, Clay Worst, Bob Schoose, and a few others). Since most Dutch Hunters either knew or had run into your dad at some point in time or another in the fifty odd years he had been going back and forth to his camp. When the producers were talking to any of the above persons, the conversation will always (especially for TV) turn to who, how, and how many people have died in the Supers. I believe that at the time of putting together a story to air on 15 March 1989, they would have started working on the story maybe a year prior. That means that your dad was the most recent person to diein the mountains, so his story jumped to the top of the list.

4. There are SO many unexplained events and deaths related to the Lost Dutchman, there will ALWAYS be enough to make a good show. And add what I said above.

5. That is a poser, and one that should be asked.

6. Since Joe (Cactusjumper) said that the "fake" Roland showed up just a couple/few days after your dad's body was recovered. That cuts my time limit a good bit, but it would still be very possible that the death made the news at least once. My guess is that Tom may have been interviewed since he was one of the last people to talk to Walter before he left into the mountains. A "fake" Roland mayhave seen that interview and went from there.

7. There would be a great reason to show Tom gold ore. If you dad believed he had found ore from the Lost Dutchman, you can count the number of people that may be able to authenticate it as such on two hands. Tom would be one of them, as would Bob or Clay Worst. I haven't looked again for it yet, but I remember reading somewhere that Bob said Walter told him about ore specimens. It wouldn't have been the first time your dad brought ore out of the mountains; in the copy I have of his manuscript, he talks about bringing out two rocks. He gave one to his mining engineer friend , and had the other one assayed. I believe that assay showed about $20 to the ton (the manuscript doesn't specify a date for this event).


Take Care - Mike

 

[Azquester]

Heart attacks from what I've read come on suddenly especially if it's a massive coronary with great amounts of pain. If that's the way he did die. I suppose he may have had symptoms before the attack or maybe he was on Nitro for angina this may have bought him time for telling his tale too a stranger. If he had some gold ore Gollum says it was low grade not the high grade stuff like the Unsolved Mysteries show played it out to be from what I remember when he showed it to BC. Could this have been a pact between both Walter and TK, BC for sensationalizing his story after his death? He would have to know in advance he could possibly die out there and we don't know if he had any heart issues before he died that would preclude this. I highly doubt this is the case as it would be suicide and he obviously was not that sort of man. It would make the other two complacent too his death which is assisted suicide and I don't think the Attorney General would be involved in anything a kin to that. No, I just believe that some chains are being yanked and some personal embellishment's piled on but by whom and which people are at fault?

That's the real question!

I think Roland should contact a production company and tell his side of the story. Call it:

"The real stories of the Lost Dutchman Hunter Walter Gassler and the men that stand to profit by embellishing on his legendary quest".

Maybe writing a book is in order?

What about the possibility of Walt (while experiencing heart issues) simply told a passing hiker about his find. Mabe Walt showed some gold and asked whomever if they would inform Tom K. and Bob C. of his find. This would explain why the fake Roland new about Tom and Bob's involvement. Just a thought.

 

[RWGassler]

Oroblanco,
I knew this would get this type of response so I'm not sure why I wasted my time. I think the best thing to do is to leave it to the experts on this forum who knew my father so well, what he knew, who he talked to and what he said, what his motives were and what the circumstances of his death were.
It's of no benefit to anyone what I think or know since the outcome will be the same that has been presented numerous times when you provide "written" information that is not in agreement with the experts on the situation.
Good Luck
RWGassler

 

[Azquester]

Mr Gassler, It's not going to be the same thread after your departure. Please forgive Oro as he may not know what he speaks. Many only know what they saw on TV or read in a book by one author or another. Or read on here over the years like I did when I first became interested. I believed the versions as told by others. You know the truth about it as it unfolded in front of you back then. Yes, it doesn't fit the status quo's versions of events. It's goes against the grain of all that thought in their minds they knew the real truth. But this thread is about your Fathers notes and the sequence of events that brought those notes into the public realm. Personally, I would like to see the documents you have supporting your contentions. In private of course. I believe your story of what happened back then by your reverse chronology even if others attempt suppression of the truth . This may shed some light on why this happened and it may not be for the obvious reasons one might expect from those involved. Possibly, It could lead to the anagnorisis ofwho, why and when this unfolded. Truth is a double edged sword it cuts both ways sometimes leading to unexpected outcomes. Have you talked with BC recently about this? He may have more info after all these years. Maybe talking with those involved with the production of the Unsolved Mysteries episode like Oro said for other reasons would be going against the grains of most but it may answer more questions you have not been able to get from other known sources? After all this time the truth may reveal itself more clearly or someone may have a burden they would like to get off their chest.

But please don't stop posting on here we all want the truth no matter where it leads us. Even if it hurts some a bit. Just keep the players anonymous using different names and tell the tale. That is if there is anymore to it that all of us don't know about which I'm sure there is.

If your not going to post on here anymore I would just like to say you and your Father were both men of great integrity and fortitude you will surely be missed so you and your family have a Merry Xmas!

Oroblanco,
I knew this would get this type of response so I'm not sure why I wasted my time. I think the best thing to do is to leave it to the experts on this forum who knew my father so well, what he knew, who he talked to and what he said, what his motives were and what the circumstances of his death were.
It's of no benefit to anyone what I think or know since the outcome will be the same that has been presented numerous times when you provide "written" information that is not in agreement with the experts on the situation.
Good Luck
RWGassler

 

[gollum]

Roy and others,

Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin have both NEVER been anything but kind and open in every discussion I have had with them. They are two of the few people that (like I said previously) I hold in a bit of reverence, due to their many years of hunting, knowledge of the subject, and the shear perseverance of sticking to searching for something that many people have looked for before them and not found in 114 years. That is how I feel about them.

That said; While I believe that every grown-up can handle their own arguments, sometimes circumstances necessitate a little intervention. Before anybody starts ragging on Roland for the things he is posting, you all need to put yourself in his shoes for a bit:

Roland lost his father in a pretty traumatic fashion. He didn't personally know the people involved, and there were a lot of unanswered questions. He had no idea whom he could trust to tell him even a bit of the truth. Keep one thing in mind: Walt Gassler had been hunting The Dutchman for about fifty-two years in 1984. He told both Tom and Bob that he was certain he had found the Dutchman. Granted, how many times had they heard that same thing before from about a gazillion other people? So, the combination of the unusual circumstances of his father's death, the "fake" Roland Gassler showing up and getting his father's manuscript. When he saw the Unsolved Mysteries Episode that showed his father giving his manuscript to Bob Corbin, then magically Tom K had it when the "fake" Roland showed up. Then again, it turns up for sale at the museum. Plus, about a million other questions floating around in his head.

The people that one would normally go to for information are both of the people he had questions about! Sort of a catch-22 for someone unfamiliar with the people in the Dutch Hunting Community. So he shut up. He had no way to find out the absolute truth of the matter.

---------- AND THAT CRAP HAS BEEN FESTERING IN HIS HEAD SINCE THE LATE 1980'S, AND HE HAD NOBODY HE FELT HE COULD TRUST TO TALK TO!

To me, it's no wonder that he feels the way he does. Frankly, I would be shocked if he didn't! Now all that said, one of the big reasons that Matthew and I wanted to meet with him in October was to hopefully give him some peace about (at least) some aspects he may not have known about the circumstances surrounding his father's death, and the disposition of his effects.

To me, Roland gets a free pass for at least until his questions have gotten some kind of answer. I will tell you that I don't believe there was any kind of conspiracy, and it may have been as simple as Bob showed the manuscript to Tom, and Tom just happened to have it when "fake" Roland showed up. I can imagine several scenarios in which someone may have found out Tom had spoken to Walt. Remember, according to Tom, "fake" Roland asked him about all his dad's stuff. I personally think the guy was fishing, and if Tom had said he didn't have anything, maybe he would have shown up at Bob's Office (probably not though, because of Bob's Job at the time...too risky for a fake to show up at the Attorney General's Office).

Here is MY conspiracy theory: Let's go back to my "Crazy Jake" Theory for a bit. Imagine Jake or his guys roughing up Walter Gassler. In a scenario like that, I can imagine them telling him to show them whatever maps and notes he had. He naturally would have told them that he had given them to someone back in the real world. After Walter has a coronary, Jake's Men transport him to a spot where he would be found, and they sat on that ridge and watched the whole thing happen. Jake then sent one of his guys he knew Tom would not know, to try and recover the things Walter told them under duress he had given Tom. Nobody went to Bob's Office, because (more than likely) Bob would have known most of the people in Jake's Camp.

Just some thoughts - Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco,
I knew this would get this type of response so I'm not sure why I wasted my time. I think the best thing to do is to leave it to the experts on this forum who knew my father so well, what he knew, who he talked to and what he said, what his motives were and what the circumstances of his death were.
It's of no benefit to anyone what I think or know since the outcome will be the same that has been presented numerous times when you provide "written" information that is not in agreement with the experts on the situation.
Good Luck
RWGassler

Roland I hope you will not leave the discussion, I merely asked you to tell your own story in your own words. I did mention earlier that Tom K and Bob C are friends of mine, and they do not participate nor follow these discussions. I have found them to be honest men, so when someone seems to be trying to discredit them, I wonder why. I won't post anything further in this thread since it seems to be an issue. Please do continue, all will benefit from reading your views and memories, and for the record, Walt Gassler is legendary in the LDM story, certainly worthy of being covered by a television episode telling the LDM legend as much as Adolph Ruth or any of the other main players.

Bill Riley wrote

Please forgive Oro as he may not know what he speaks. Many only know what they saw on TV or read in a book by one author or another.

You have no idea what I know nor whom I know. The published word is a good reference because anyone can then check it, to see that when someone posts a quote, it is not just something that person made up. If I were to post that Mr X told me something in private, how could you check to see if that really was what he said? This episode of Unsolved Mysteries ran some 30 years ago, and now suddenly it is controversial! I remember hiking in to where Mr Gassler was found, months after it happened. Did not see or find anything of interest, in fact <if we got the right place>, thought it was a very lovely spot. At that time I was not aware of the imposter Roland and did not know Tom or Bob. We did not know about the gold ore at that time, just that he was then a famous Dutch hunter and that area was of interest. I had the impression then, and still do today, that Walter passed away doing what he loved, and picked a beautiful place for his departure. I can think of far worse ways to go.

You on the other hand have now converted what Tom K stated, into "low grade" ore, and imagine that death by heart attack must be some horrific painful ordeal. Not all heart attacks are terribly painful, in fact sometimes there is hardly any pain, just some shortness of breath, or pain in an odd place like the right shoulder or right arm etc that would not immediately make one think of a heart attack. Mr. Gassler was described as appearing as if he were simply resting, which if he had passed away suffering terrible pains, would hardly be likely. The fact that some very dangerous heart attacks are NOT very painful is why people die of it sometimes, because they do not feel badly enough to think they are in danger. A side thing here but finding ore with a gold value of $20 per ton, in the early 1980s, would certainly be a good indicator that the finder was at least finding gold. Gold prices have fluctuated a great deal over the decades, and we do not know what year Mr Gassler found that ore you describe as "low grade". In 1966 it was $35 an ounce, in 1932 it was $20.67 per oz. I do agree with you that it is a good thing for Roland to tell his side of the story, and he is certainly welcome to his opinions as well, just as you are. Just use your own head Bill, not everything is a deep conspiracy. Tom K and Bob C did not know Walter well, had very few contacts with him before Walter passed away. In fact they had been contacted by many other Dutch hunters that claimed to have solved the mystery, and usually it had been bogus.

The imposter Roland could have learned what he seemed to, from contact with Walter himself prior to his death. It may have even been a contact on Walter's last trip. The imposter could have claimed the backpack from the search and rescue or simply grabbed it in the activity involved. We can never know. If you read or listen to the tape of the UM episode, it is apparent that the imposter did not KNOW much of anything, he was clearly fishing for information and did not even know who or whom had Walter's notes. Hence the QUESTION posed to Tom, not a statement. It is interesting that Walter's notes were then being called just his notes, and today it is referred to as a "manuscript" as if it were intended to be a book.

Now blaze away Bill, Roland et al, I won't post anything further in the thread unless to reply to something directed to me specifically. Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek, and wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas.
Oroblanco

 

[azdave35]

Oroblanco,
I knew this would get this type of response so I'm not sure why I wasted my time. I think the best thing to do is to leave it to the experts on this forum who knew my father so well, what he knew, who he talked to and what he said, what his motives were and what the circumstances of his death were.
It's of no benefit to anyone what I think or know since the outcome will be the same that has been presented numerous times when you provide "written" information that is not in agreement with the experts on the situation.
Good Luck
RWGassler

roland...no need to take off..oro has a one track mind and anyone that disagrees with him he starts in on......this is a public forum and you are free to express your opinions about BC or TK.....they never post here but i guarantee they monitor the forum and if they want to defend their selves they are big boys and are perfectly capable of doing so...they dont need oro or anyone else to stick up for them......as far as i'm concerned you have more of a right to be on this forum than most of the people here

 

[Azquester]

Actually I agree with Gollum on most of his points.

It was traumatic event as I had mine when my Father died suddenly at 48 years old in 1981.

The Embellishments may have come from the production company at the time from the writers or director. They may have even coached some of the key players which is normal for most productions back then as today. Nowadays they don't even give you a script they just sit there critiquing your story and making you back track and say the same thing only in different order! Back then they would have had a script. Maybe a copy of it might shed some light as to what was embellished? If they played Tom into saying those things while arguing it was a "Fictional Story" that they were producing it would be normal for embellishments. If TK made copies of the notes he never said a word about it to Roland and he's had many chances I'm sure to set the record straight. Maybe BC did and gave it to TK later on not knowing he already told RG he had no such material? Someone had copies here besides the company in Cali. The fake Roland had one at least according to TK. Maybe he found it was worthless to him and offered it for sale to TK through a surrogate? If he gave the producer in CA a copy before he died maybe he sent the Fake Roland for his story never telling anyone but the Unsolved Mysteries producers?

Lots of unanswered questions!

Whatever Walter had it was worth a lot of trouble for someone to have gone through all that dramatization and role playing for his notes while taking a chance of being discovered as a fraud. Of course this all just speculation only Roland knows what really happened back then. As Gollum said it silenced him for a long while but it had to be eating him up that the truth was "warped history" about his late father and his view of events had been tainted with deep personal controversy. It makes one suspicious of everyone associated with the whole story. I can feel his dilemma. Makes me sort of nauseous to think about it if I were in his shoes.

Roy and others,

Tom Kollenborn and Bob Corbin have both NEVER been anything but kind and open in every discussion I have had with them. They are two of the few people that (like I said previously) I hold in a bit of reverence, due to their many years of hunting, knowledge of the subject, and the shear perseverance of sticking to searching for something that many people have looked for before them and not found in 114 years. That is how I feel about them.

That said; While I believe that every grown-up can handle their own arguments, sometimes circumstances necessitate a little intervention. Before anybody starts ragging on Roland for the things he is posting, you all need to put yourself in his shoes for a bit:

Roland lost his father in a pretty traumatic fashion. He didn't personally know the people involved, and there were a lot of unanswered questions. He had no idea whom he could trust to tell him even a bit of the truth. Keep one thing in mind: Walt Gassler had been hunting The Dutchman for about fifty-two years in 1984. He told both Tom and Bob that he was certain he had found the Dutchman. Granted, how many times had they heard that same thing before from about a gazillion other people? So, the combination of the unusual circumstances of his father's death, the "fake" Roland Gassler showing up and getting his father's manuscript. When he saw the Unsolved Mysteries Episode that showed his father giving his manuscript to Bob Corbin, then magically Tom K had it when the "fake" Roland showed up. Then again, it turns up for sale at the museum. Plus, about a million other questions floating around in his head.

The people that one would normally go to for information are both of the people he had questions about! Sort of a catch-22 for someone unfamiliar with the people in the Dutch Hunting Community. So he shut up. He had no way to find out the absolute truth of the matter.

---------- AND THAT CRAP HAS BEEN FESTERING IN HIS HEAD SINCE THE LATE 1980'S, AND HE HAD NOBODY HE FELT HE COULD TRUST TO TALK TO!

To me, it's no wonder that he feels the way he does. Frankly, I would be shocked if he didn't! Now all that said, one of the big reasons that Matthew and I wanted to meet with him in October was to hopefully give him some peace about (at least) some aspects he may not have known about the circumstances surrounding his father's death, and the disposition of his effects.

To me, Roland gets a free pass for at least until his questions have gotten some kind of answer. I will tell you that I don't believe there was any kind of conspiracy, and it may have been as simple as Bob showed the manuscript to Tom, and Tom just happened to have it when "fake" Roland showed up. I can imagine several scenarios in which someone may have found out Tom had spoken to Walt. Remember, according to Tom, "fake" Roland asked him about all his dad's stuff. I personally think the guy was fishing, and if Tom had said he didn't have anything, maybe he would have shown up at Bob's Office (probably not though, because of Bob's Job at the time...too risky for a fake to show up at the Attorney General's Office).

Here is MY conspiracy theory: Let's go back to my "Crazy Jake" Theory for a bit. Imagine Jake or his guys roughing up Walter Gassler. In a scenario like that, I can imagine them telling him to show them whatever maps and notes he had. He naturally would have told them that he had given them to someone back in the real world. After Walter has a coronary, Jake's Men transport him to a spot where he would be found, and they sat on that ridge and watched the whole thing happen. Jake then sent one of his guys he knew Tom would not know, to try and recover the things Walter told them under duress he had given Tom. Nobody went to Bob's Office, because (more than likely) Bob would have known most of the people in Jake's Camp.

Just some thoughts - Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

roland...no need to take off..oro has a one track mind and anyone that disagrees with him he starts in on......this is a public forum and you are free to express your opinions about BC or TK.....they never post here but i guarantee they monitor the forum and if they want to defend their selves they are big boys and are perfectly capable of doing so......they don't need oro or anyone else to stick up for them....as far as i'm concerned you have more of a right to be on this forum than most of the people here

Dave,

I believe that is a completely unfair statement about Roy. We have disagreed on many things over the years and just get over it.

As for people "sticking up" for friends, it's a habit that goes back to the beginnings of time. Right or wrong, millions of people have died fighting wars.....defending their friends. When I was in Vietnam, I firmly believed we were fighting and dying to defend the South Vietnamese. When I see Tom or Bob being publically slandered, directly or obliquely, I will not be silenced in defending them. If you had close friends in the same situation, I would like to believe you would do the same.

I can see both men's reluctance to enter this low brow debate. Tom and I have talked about it many times and, no doubt, will again. I am quickly entering that point in my life, where I will no longer wish to be part of the fray. Until that point, I will defend my friends. Others, who profess to be their good friends, will sit on their hands and watch from the sidelines. I believe those folks are part of the ongoing smear campaign, perhaps the instigators......and for their own reasons.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

I believe that is a completely unfair statement about Roy. We have disagreed on many things over the years and just get over it.

As for people "sticking up" for friends, it's a habit that goes back to the beginnings of time. Right or wrong, millions of people have died fighting wars.....defending their friends. When I was in Vietnam, I firmly believed we were fighting and dying to defend the South Vietnamese. When I see Tom or Bob being publically slandered, directly or obliquely, I will not be silenced in defending them. If you had close friends in the same situation, I would like to believe you would do the same.

I can see both men's reluctance to enter this low brow debate. Tom and I have talked about it many times and, no doubt, will again. I am quickly entering that point in my life, where I will no longer wish to be part of the fray. Until that point, I will defend my friends. Others, who profess to be their good friends, will sit on their hands and watch from the sidelines. I believe those folks are part of the ongoing smear campaign, perhaps the instigators......and for their own reasons.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

joe...i've said before i have nothing against roy...we just dont agree on things..and i always stick up for my friends when i feel they need it....i just dont believe much that i see on tv or read in a book...(remember how legends of the superstitions twisted the facts)..thats just one example and i'm sure unsolved mysteries has no problem embellishing the facts.....i dont think roland was calling bc or tk a liar...maybe he just wants them to hop on the forum and set things straight..then we could quit speculating and the truth would be in print..right from the horses mouth's