Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[cactusjumper]

joe...i've said before i have nothing against roy...we just dont agree on things..and i always stick up for my friends when i feel they need it....i just dont believe much that i see on tv or read in a book...(remember how legends of the superstitions twisted the facts)..thats just one example and i'm sure unsolved mysteries has no problem embellishing the facts.....i dont think roland was calling bc or tk a liar...maybe he just wants them to hop on the forum and set things straight..then we could quit speculating and the truth would be in print..right from the horses mouth's

Dave,

It could be that Mr. Gassler is insinuating that Tom and Bob are great guys. I don't read it that way. Same with my old friend Bill.

You and I will just have to agree to disagree on Roy's intentions here, as well as this recent smear campaign on Tom and Bob.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[Old]

There is a dark cloud that has hung over this story for thirty years. Mr. Gassler (Roland) has been far more patient than I would have been under his same circumstances. And I venture to suspect more patient than many of you here would have been if similarly affected. There is an opportunity for ALL the players in this saga to do the right thing. You know who you are.

Walter Gassler's personal notes belong to his two children. Its high time they were returned. It is, I believe, incumbent on you to make that happen.

If Mr. Gassler and his sister wish to donate the notes to the Historical Society (or another similar organization) it would be a fitting tribute to their father. They would, I believe, be entitled to a rather hefty tax deduction for such donation. An attribution page indicating the notes have been made available to the public through a donation by the Gassler family should be included in any further distributions. If they prefer to keep the notes in their hands its totally within their rights to do so. It THEIR choice.

Unfortunately this instance is not the first where there is a wrongful sense of entitlement among the chosen that is pervasive.

The fact that all the major players in this saga have either remained silent or exited the stage speaks volumes to me and not in a good way.

 

[Oroblanco]

AZDave35 wrote

roland...no need to take off..oro has a one track mind and anyone that disagrees with him he starts in on......this is a public forum and you are free to express your opinions about BC or TK.....they never post here but i guarantee they monitor the forum and if they want to defend their selves they are big boys and are perfectly capable of doing so...they dont need oro or anyone else to stick up for them......as far as i'm concerned you have more of a right to be on this forum than most of the people here

Interesting. So I am to be discredited too. Hmm. It is a public forum, family oriented, and all are welcome so long as they follow the forum rules. I don’t see any requirements to be an expert before one can say anything.

I see it frequently mentioned in a disparaging way, about treasure hunters getting information from “books and magazines” and TV. As if that were always a bad thing. I think some members here might benefit by reading some books and magazines. Of course those that are real experts, the folks that live in the Superstition mountains, know more than anyone living anywhere else, but oh wait, no one lives in the Superstition mountains. So you see we are really more on an equal footing than you might think.

I don’t usually defend television programs for their accuracy, and the old series Unsolved Mysteries was a dramatization of events, not intended to be absolutely accurate in every detail. However they did not put words in the mouths of actual witnesses and partipants in those events, like Tom K or Bob C, and the series was supposed to be more in line with documentaries, not fantasy or fiction or pure entertainment like some modern treasure television series. The fact that the series Unsolved Mysteries worked with facts rather than fictions, may be why the series ended up cancelled. Most television viewers seem to prefer fiction.

Dave, Bill Riley et al, I do not need to prove anything to you. I don’t know either of you personally, and you certainly do not know me at all. At this point I don’t think I care to get to know either of you. I have had disagreements with Joe and many others over the years, and mostly we remain friends for we try to argue the facts, it is not personal in any way. Some people cannot disagree and remain friends however, and have to resort to name calling etc. You may not want me to post in these discussions and you are likely going to get your wish.

Thanks Joe for the kind words, and like you, I do not stand to benefit in any way by “preserving” a mythical version of the LDM. I don’t make any royalties on any LDM books, nor receive any kickbacks from the Apache Jct businesses that benefit from the legend. I have learned many things from books and magazines, and from the internet as well, like the fact that you can make great friends online, which some people think is not possible. I have learned a lot from boots on the ground too, many facts that are not published in any books I am aware of, like that there really is gold in the Superstition wilderness area, in places that it is not “supposed” to be according to the official USGS studies. Old rock cabins or shelters, trails that are not marked and rock water tanks (natural) that hold water for a long time exist and are not mentioned in any book or magazine, signs that logging was done, some kind of mining camps, caves, springs and many other notable features. It does get tiresome trying to defend your motives when one stands to gain nothing, while some are trying to reap rewards by manufacturing new “evidence”.

To all. Why not just let Roland speak for himself? He is entitled to tell his side of the story, would you not agree? Don’t expect to see Tom K. or Bob C. jump in here to participate in the discussion however, and I can see why they choose not to. I am not attacking Roland or anyone else, and would have let this thread alone but for the latest stuff posted against myself.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And once again, wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

AZ, only "I" am perfect , but Oro comes close

 

[Azquester]

Joe, I'm taken back you called me an old friend it warms my heart to know you see me in that light.

Of course, I know you're being sarcastic with hint of patronization. It still warms my heart that you even mention me in those ways. As far as campaigns, I've seen you head some of the best campaigns in your field and your very astute at it. You always win. I guess this one only serves your higher purpose here and now because your not running it yourself against someone else right this minute.

No one is throwing anyone under the Bus.

I haven't seen any proof that either one of those people have done anything wrong. I'm just speculating and hypothesizing all angles of the verbal account that was given by Roland and what was produced from the TV show back then. He's proved nothing with actual evidence other than his word just like BC & TK that this actually happened so from what I see at this point all players in this story are equals.

I'm searching for the truth like all on here and Roland says he has documentation that proves certain aspects of his claims. What those documents are is anybody's guess. I hold my final judgment for when I actually see said docs or something else comes to light. Until then we are all just guessing. To answer your question about Tom or Bob I believe both to be telling the truth as they saw it back then. There may be a wild card here no one knows about that possibly may be brought out with the research and the hearty debates on here. I hope so because we all would like to know. It's out there somewhere.


QUOTE=cactusjumper;4771292]Dave,

Same with my old friend Bill.

A recent smear campaign on Tom and Bob.

Take care,

Joe[/QUOTE]

 

[Azquester]

Oro, I have nothing against you and your right you do not have to prove anything to me at all Sir.
The key note here is that I said he MAY NOT KNOW what he's saying because at this point we all don't know the real truth only the equal accounts of BC, TK, RG spoke by them as truthful testimony as they remember. There is no way at this point for anyone to get to the truth with out the wild card fake Roland or docs. Now when I said many only know what they saw or read that includes myself with everyone else. We do only know what we saw or read because there is no more! We were not there at that time and none of us were involved but the three men. You may have heard TK's story first hand which I must admit is an advantage. But have you talked first hand with Roland or seen his documentation? I haven't that's for sure! Each man will say the truth as they recall it, what is missing is what matters. I hope you don't mean what your saying about not knowing me personally. Or Dave. I think spats on the forum are common and should take them with a grain of salt there's more important things in life like Christmas and New years so happy both of them to you and all.

Dave, Bill Riley et al, I do not need to prove anything to you. I don’t know either of you personally, and you certainly do not know me at all. At this point I don’t think I care to get to know either of you.

Bill Riley wrote

Please forgive Oro as he may not know what he speaks. Many only know what they saw on TV or read in a book by one author or another.



You have no idea what I know nor whom I know. The published word is a good reference because anyone can then check it, to see that when someone posts a quote, it is not just something that person made up.

Oroblanco

 

[azdave35]

Oro, I have nothing against you and your right you do not have to prove anything to me at all Sir.
The key note here is that I said he MAY NOT KNOW what he's saying because at this point we all don't know the real truth only the equal accounts of BC, TK, RG spoke by them as truthful testimony as they remember. There is no way at this point for anyone to get to the truth with out the wild card fake Roland or docs. Now when I said many only know what they saw or read that includes myself with everyone else. We do only know what we saw or read because there is no more! We were not there at that time and none of us were involved but the three men. You may have heard TK's story first hand which I must admit is an advantage. But have you talked first hand with Roland or seen his documentation? I haven't that's for sure! Each man will say the truth as they recall it, what is missing is what matters. I hope you don't mean what your saying about not knowing me personally. Or Dave. I think spats on the forum are common and should take them with a grain of salt there's more important things in life like Christmas and New years so happy both of them to you and all.

lol...oro takes everything on here too personal

 

[azdave35]

AZDave35 wrote


Interesting. So I am to be discredited too. Hmm. It is a public forum, family oriented, and all are welcome so long as they follow the forum rules. I don’t see any requirements to be an expert before one can say anything.

I see it frequently mentioned in a disparaging way, about treasure hunters getting information from “books and magazines” and TV. As if that were always a bad thing. I think some members here might benefit by reading some books and magazines. Of course those that are real experts, the folks that live in the Superstition mountains, know more than anyone living anywhere else, but oh wait, no one lives in the Superstition mountains. So you see we are really more on an equal footing than you might think.

I don’t usually defend television programs for their accuracy, and the old series Unsolved Mysteries was a dramatization of events, not intended to be absolutely accurate in every detail. However they did not put words in the mouths of actual witnesses and partipants in those events, like Tom K or Bob C, and the series was supposed to be more in line with documentaries, not fantasy or fiction or pure entertainment like some modern treasure television series. The fact that the series Unsolved Mysteries worked with facts rather than fictions, may be why the series ended up cancelled. Most television viewers seem to prefer fiction.

Dave, Bill Riley et al, I do not need to prove anything to you. I don’t know either of you personally, and you certainly do not know me at all. At this point I don’t think I care to get to know either of you. I have had disagreements with Joe and many others over the years, and mostly we remain friends for we try to argue the facts, it is not personal in any way. Some people cannot disagree and remain friends however, and have to resort to name calling etc. You may not want me to post in these discussions and you are likely going to get your wish.

Thanks Joe for the kind words, and like you, I do not stand to benefit in any way by “preserving” a mythical version of the LDM. I don’t make any royalties on any LDM books, nor receive any kickbacks from the Apache Jct businesses that benefit from the legend. I have learned many things from books and magazines, and from the internet as well, like the fact that you can make great friends online, which some people think is not possible. I have learned a lot from boots on the ground too, many facts that are not published in any books I am aware of, like that there really is gold in the Superstition wilderness area, in places that it is not “supposed” to be according to the official USGS studies. Old rock cabins or shelters, trails that are not marked and rock water tanks (natural) that hold water for a long time exist and are not mentioned in any book or magazine, signs that logging was done, some kind of mining camps, caves, springs and many other notable features. It does get tiresome trying to defend your motives when one stands to gain nothing, while some are trying to reap rewards by manufacturing new “evidence”.

To all. Why not just let Roland speak for himself? He is entitled to tell his side of the story, would you not agree? Don’t expect to see Tom K. or Bob C. jump in here to participate in the discussion however, and I can see why they choose not to. I am not attacking Roland or anyone else, and would have let this thread alone but for the latest stuff posted against myself.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And once again, wishing everyone a very Merry Christmas.
Oroblanco

oro....maybe you havent been here lately but there are thousands of homes all around the west and south end of the supers.....and people live in them year round...alot of them moved there so they could hunt for the mine...some are full time hunters...so yes..i'd say they have a big advantage over someone that lives 1500 miles away

 

[RWGassler]

To All Posters,
This situation is getting out of hand and not productive for the scope of this forum. I knew when I made my last post is was probably not a wise decision and that has proven to be correct. It is not in any ones interest for me to continue with posts that might reflect a difference of opinion with those who are held in such high esteem. Just to put the record straight, the comments that were made with respect to my father does not diminish the basic knowledge these individuals have about the Superstitions and LDM.
You all need to get back to what this forum is suppose to be about and that is sharing information about treasure hunting in this case the LDM.
Good Hunting
RWGassler

 

[dog the treasure hunter]

RWGassler, i have enjoyed reading your post, its good your telling it. Thanks

 

[Oroblanco]

oro....maybe you havent been here lately but there are thousands of homes all around the west and south end of the supers.....and people live in them year round...alot of them moved there so they could hunt for the mine...some are full time hunters...so yes..i'd say they have a big advantage over someone that lives 1500 miles away

You are entitled to your beliefs. Since those people have such a huge advantage, then they must have found the lost mine by now right?

 

[azdave35]

You are entitled to your beliefs. Since those people have such a huge advantage, then they must have found the lost mine by now right?

alot more than you ever will

 

[cactusjumper]

Roland Gassler is simply an Internet identity, at this time. I believe he is who he says he is......without any proof whatsoever. On the other hand, Tom and Bob are known commodities in the LDM legend and the history of the Southwest. Having known both men for quite awhile now, out camping, at the Rendezvous', in their homes and in our home, it's pretty hard for me not to defend their character.

You folks go ahead and wallow in this little mud slinging pit. Believe I will bow out for awhile.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

alot more than you ever will

How little you know.

Cactusjumper wrote

Roland Gassler is simply an Internet identity, at this time. I believe he is who he says he is......without any proof whatsoever. On the other hand, Tom and Bob are known commodities in the LDM legend and the history of the Southwest. Having known both men for quite awhile now, out camping, at the Rendezvous', in their homes and in our home, it's pretty hard for me not to defend their character.

You folks go ahead and wallow in this little mud slinging pit. Believe I will bow out for awhile.

Joe Ribaudo

Agreed, and ditto.

 

[nobodie]

Just like the LDM and other treasures,120 years from now our great, great, great grand children
will be discussing, arguing Walter Gasslers notes (manuscript).

 

[Garry]

I’m confused, which is putting it mildly. Everyone seems to have all the answers and I have seen very few hard facts. I’m sure Roland has a wealth of details which could at least get us closer to the truth. I would like to believe that the truth is what we are all striving for.

Some of my, lack of facts, statement may stem from the Unsolved Mysteies episode and the previous thread on this forum which was deleted. I did not see those posts nor was I able to watch the Unsolved Mysteries episode that Mike posted the link to.

Roland,

I did not realize this thread was specifically about your father’s “Notes”. In fact, I do not know what people are referring to when they use the term “Notes”.

I have been primarily interested in the conflicting stories of the events leading up to and including your father’s last trip into the Superstitions, so, right now, I’m trying to shift gears to the “Notes”.

I am only aware of the Manuscript published by the Superstition Mountain Historical Society in 1990. I also have a copy of Walter’s hand written portion of the Manuscript called “Part II”. I do not know who gave me the copy of the handwritten notes (It was in about 2007).

I have a couple of questions and apologize if they were covered previously.

Are the “Notes” and the Manuscript one and the same or are the “Notes” something entirely different?

I also got the impression, from my involvement in a similar discussion about 8 or 9 years ago, that your father had marked up maps, materials, etc. related to his search. (which may be the “Notes” we are talking about?) Further, I believed that you were contacted by one or more Dutch Hunters sometime after your father’s death and you provided some of your father’s materials or at least copies to those individuals. My impression was that it didn’t involve Bob Corbin or Tom Kollenborn.

Did you personally share "any" of your father's materials with anyone in the LDM community? Please tell me if I’m all wet, partially correct or spot on (with some detail). I’ll bet I’m NOT spot on!

Your answers will at least provide a foundation block for moving forward.

Thanks for any help,

Garry

 

[Old]

Garry,

I too hope Roland will give us some incite from his perspective.

I draw a difference in material from what I call the "notes" and what is available as "the manuscript". My difference is gleaned from what has been stated over the years. Most recently, I refer you to Posts #2 and 22 of this thread. To me, the notes are Walter Gassler's handwritten material. The manuscript is what is currently published circa 1990 being Mr. Lee's unfinished re-write. There are some interesting tid bits that are glossed over in Post #2 and 22. Further inquiry was not fruitful.

I invite you (and all) to form your own conclusions.

 

[markmar]

Lynda

You wrote : "I draw a difference in material from what I call the "notes" and what is available as "the manuscript". "

I believe you should wrote this in your first post of this thread . Matthew Roberts wrote in the posts #2 and #22 about the NOTES that have been used by Walter since 1930 to write the manuscript .

Now , you and Garry are searching for confidential notes that Walter had and maybe provided some friends of him in the last years of his research . i believe he did this for his few trusted friends . Also , I don't believe Walter provided TK or BC with any of his confidential notes , and this I have understood because they were not able to find his camp when they went into the Superstitions after Walter loss .
I believe Roland never provided any confidential notes of his father to anybody from the Dutch Hunters Community .

 

[Old]

Marius,

your wrote: "........I believe you should wrote this in your first post of this thread ...."

Well, I believe I did <g>. I started the thread and titled it. Its titled Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman......... But I get your drift. Sometimes the words notes and manuscript have been used interchangeably. I see them as two totally different things.

The "notes" are what Walter had at the time he gave (something) to BC. We can call them notes, or draft manuscript, research papers, lots of names. The manuscript (as published) was not yet compiled and was in the hands of Mr. Lee in California. The manuscript in its final form (as we know it) could not have been what was provided to BC. That "manuscript" was not compiled by Mr. Lee until several years after Mr. Gassler's death.

As to the camp location............there are several other hunters who didn't seem to have any problem locating the camp. Everyone will have to make their own judgment calls on what's truthful and what isn't. And; where that "truth" leads you and just how all the bread crumbs form a path. That goes for several aspects of the saga.

 

[gollum]

Marius,

your wrote: "........I believe you should wrote this in your first post of this thread ...."

Well, I believe I did <g>. I started the thread and titled it. Its titled Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman......... But I get your drift. Sometimes the words notes and manuscript have been used interchangeably. I see them as two totally different things.

The "notes" are what Walter had at the time he gave (something) to BC. We can call them notes, or draft manuscript, research papers, lots of names. The manuscript (as published) was not yet compiled and was in the hands of Mr. Lee in California. The manuscript in its final form (as we know it) could not have been what was provided to BC. That "manuscript" was not compiled by Mr. Lee until several years after Mr. Gassler's death.

As to the camp location............there are several other hunters who didn't seem to have any problem locating the camp. Everyone will have to make their own judgment calls on what's truthful and what isn't. And; where that "truth" leads you and just how all the bread crumbs form a path. That goes for several aspects of the saga.

Old,

My understanding is that the "draft manuscript" has a lot of sidebar notes, and it also gives the exact location he believed the mine to be........ and it really isn't that hard to find. He just thought it was buried under many feet of rock and soil, with natural vegetation covering it, and would take many people quite a while to open it up.

One thing I absolutely agree with Walter Gassler about, is that Robert E. Lee's movie and book are some of the more excellent DLM informationals.

Mike