Dutchmans Lost Mine

[Tom22]

Dutchman's Lost Mine

I believe Jacob Waltz said he covered his mine with wood planks and rocks, rubble, etc. Does anybody know if wood planks were found when they began work at the Bulldog mine? This info would help determine whether the Bulldog mine is the same as the Dutchman's.

 

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[somehiker]

I believe Jacob Waltz said he covered his mine with wood planks and rocks, rubble, etc. Does anybody know if wood planks were found when they began work at the Bulldog mine? This info would help determine whether the Bulldog mine is the same as the Dutchman's.

The Bulldog was a new strike, found by traditional prospecting methods.
There was no evidence that the vein had been excavated prior to it's discovery in 1892.

 

[gollum]

If the Dutchman's Mine has been found, there is only one possibility in my mind. I don't believe the Pit Mine was the LDM, but it had a very rich pocket (at least) of gold, and was in the Superstitions. The LDM was not in the Goldfield Area as Doc Rosencrans thought. It would have been found a long time ago.

Mike

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I believe Jacob Waltz said he covered his mine with wood planks and rocks, rubble, etc. Does anybody know if wood planks were found when they began work at the Bulldog mine? This info would help determine whether the Bulldog mine is the same as the Dutchman's.

What is the evidence that some 'Jacob Waltz said he covered his mine with wood planks and rocks, rubble, etc' I was not aware that myth had ever been substantiated. Thank you.

 

[Carl995]

The wood is about a foot underground, I checked with a T handled probe a while back to reverify location for myself.
The 1st time I probed it was 47 years ago.
This covered shaft i'm speaking of is not in the Bulldog mine area.

 

[A2coins]

Base of Apache junction end of small quarry stream runs down the side of the Mountain between two/ No mine Red men hide in open.find the quarry. Letter says and old Map

 

[Oroblanco]

I believe Jacob Waltz said he covered his mine with wood planks and rocks, rubble, etc. Does anybody know if wood planks were found when they began work at the Bulldog mine? This info would help determine whether the Bulldog mine is the same as the Dutchman's.

Welcome to Treasurenet Tom22!

I see that others have already answered your question, the only thing I would point out is that according to our sources, Waltz used ironwood logs to make a sort of 'cap' inside the mine, then filled in with the other materials. So not planks, but logs, and a particularly tough and rot resistant type of logs at that.

 

[celtic fox]

interesting stuff there was a program on history channel i think about it

 

[Weaversneedle]

The wood is about a foot underground, I checked with a T handled probe a while back to reverify location for myself.
The 1st time I probed it was 47 years ago.
This covered shaft i'm speaking of is not in the Bulldog mine area.

I just looked at your dad's website , very fascinating . I saw the void cap you posted. Is that the area where you were probing?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Welcome to Treasurenet Tom22!

I see that others have already answered your question, the only thing I would point out is that according to our sources, Waltz used ironwood logs to make a sort of 'cap' inside the mine, then filled in with the other materials. So not planks, but logs, and a particularly tough and rot resistant type of logs at that.

Ahhhh ... those mysterious 'sources'. If only they were subject to scrutiny they might not be essentially fictitious. Care to share the evidence? Without it you have presented no case.

But, let us pretend that some shaft or pit or what ever was sealed at least in part with lots of big strong ironwood logs by one old guy all by his lonesome.

In that case I would proffer that he didn't move them far. Ergo ... this sealed up place would undoubtedly be located in proximity to ironwood growth locations.

Notice on the following map the occurrence locations. Not the dotted line of the grey area Sonoran desert boundary outlined but those relatively few places.

There is also an elevation limit to occurrence. If your eggs are in the ironwood basket you have just greatly narrowed your search area. If you are out scrounging around and do not see evidence of ironwood or at least past ironwood growth you are in the wrong place.

Keep me in mind when you cash your stash

https://www.desertmuseum.org/programs/ifnm_ironwoodtree.php

 

[Carl995]

I just looked at your dad's website , very fascinating . I saw the void cap you posted. Is that the area where you were probing?

No the void/cap picture is further away from the mountain. I was in the area shown in my pic.
I was at the site my dad & Mike Mantonin found the old wood crate & wire used to load out some of the bars next to the covered shaft.

I'm considering making & offering for sale a digital scrap book of all the events, notes, maps & pictures of saguaros & rocks with codes on them & there's a lot!!
I have started scanning a lot of pages. Some of the people here only know what they read online & they think because it's online, it's set in stone.
I've been there, lived it & I knew the old prospectors that lived out there. I learned a lot from Doc that lived in a corregated metal shed out there & he was one of the nicest guys I've ever met. It was sad to see him live in the raw heat with nothing but a manual typewriter, he started getting a twitch in his eye.

Anyhow a lot of people here think i'm full of it, I just let it go, I don't care, I just want to get my dad's name out there & keep it there!
I don't want to hijack Bill's thread here so if your interested, send me a private email,
Carrol 3rd

View attachment 1264539

I kind of put together a similarity of the horse map stone to the land & the locations of some of the stones I found as a teen. Looks kind of cool!

View attachment 1264540

by the way these roads wern't there back then, 47 years ago.

 

[Oroblanco]

Ahhhh ... those mysterious 'sources'. If only they were subject to scrutiny they might not be essentially fictitious. Care to share the evidence? Without it you have presented no case.

I believe that you and I had a brief discussion not long ago correct? Did I not mention to you that the evidence of the LDM is thin? Did I also neglect to mention that it is not really my job to do your research for you. If you are interested and want to know one way or the other, (true or false) do some research.

Conceptualized also wrote

But, let us pretend

Now you are actually on to one point that may help someone to find the mine, which mine you keep implying never existed. Why would anyone bother to look for ironwood stumps to help locate a myth? It is correct that desert ironwood has very limited areas where it is found. Have you figured out what that limiting factor is, as to why desert ironwood trees are not found over a wider area? That tiny detail is also a bit of information that could help narrow down the search area. Of course we do not know how far the ironwood logs were hauled to the mine, was it a hundred yards or ten miles? That small detail helps keep anyone from finding the mine. An even bigger problem is the mixture of different and unrelated lost mine stories, which has treasure hunters searching for an impossible site that never did exist because they are looking for a mix of information from different places, different mines. On the other hand, if you have been sorting out and separating the information, as for example the detail about the two pits about 75 feet apart, really relates to a different mine belonging to Waltz and not the lost mine - assuming you are doing this step, you may stand a better chance to actually find one of the mines of this legend.

If you want the source for the ironwood logs detail, check Sims Ely's book The Lost Dutchman Mine, if memory serves it is in that as well as at least one other source. J.D. Mitchell, perhaps? You can find it, I have faith in you.

 

[gollum]

No the void/cap picture is further away from the mountain. I was in the area shown in my pic.
I was at the site my dad & Mike Mantonin found the old wood crate & wire used to load out some of the bars next to the covered shaft.

I'm considering making & offering for sale a digital scrap book of all the events, notes, maps & pictures of saguaros & rocks with codes on them & there's a lot!!
I have started scanning a lot of pages. Some of the people here only know what they read online & they think because it's online, it's set in stone.
I've been there, lived it & I knew the old prospectors that lived out there. I learned a lot from Doc that lived in a corregated metal shed out there & he was one of the nicest guys I've ever met. It was sad to see him live in the raw heat with nothing but a manual typewriter, he started getting a twitch in his eye.

Anyhow a lot of people here think i'm full of it, I just let it go, I don't care, I just want to get my dad's name out there & keep it there!
I don't want to hijack Bill's thread here so if your interested, send me a private email,
Carrol 3rd

View attachment 1264539

I kind of put together a similarity of the horse map stone to the land & the locations of some of the stones I found as a teen. Looks kind of cool!

View attachment 1264540

by the way these roads wern't there back then, 47 years ago.

Hey Carrol,

What happened to you at the Rendezvous? I dragged out a two-box detector, a magnetometer, and a sewer inspection camera. You had left and never came back.

Mike

 

[Terry Soloman]

A photo of me sitting at the mouth of the LDM, with my partner climbing up, and one inside the solid quartz mine..

 

[Carl995]

Hey Carrol,

What happened to you at the Rendezvous? I dragged out a two-box detector, a magnetometer, and a sewer inspection camera. You had left and never came back.

Mike

The person that drove me to the get together had to be home by 2:30.
I would have liked to meet everybody. Bob Corbin called me when my father passed over 20 yrs ago.
I didn't know he was going either.
I really didn't know you were bringing equipment!
I mentioned I was going to get a camera snake but never did. I've been there twice since then & there is still a void underground.
State park would have had a heart attack seeing all that equipment!!!

 

[gollum]

The person that drove me to the get together had to be home by 2:30.
I would have liked to meet everybody. Bob Corbin called me when my father passed over 20 yrs ago.
I didn't know he was going either.
I really didn't know you were bringing equipment!
I mentioned I was going to get a camera snake but never did. I've been there twice since then & there is still a void underground.
State park would have had a heart attack seeing all that equipment!!!

Next time. HAHAHA

Nah. Its all pretty compact. The magnetometer looks like a walking stick:


The two-box is quite compact:



....... and the sewer inspection camera is the smaller one with 30 feet of extensions:



I can put all of it in my rucksack. Nobody but your hairdresser will know for sure. HAHAHA

Mike

 

[Carl995]

Next time. HAHAHA

Nah. Its all pretty compact. The magnetometer looks like a walking stick:

View attachment 1264839
The two-box is quite compact:

View attachment 1264840

....... and the sewer inspection camera is the smaller one with 30 feet of extensions:

View attachment 1264841

I can put all of it in my rucksack. Nobody but your hairdresser will know for sure. HAHAHA

Mike

magnatometer looks cool, what does it do?

 

[Weaversneedle]

No the void/cap picture is further away from the mountain. I was in the area shown in my pic.
I was at the site my dad & Mike Mantonin found the old wood crate & wire used to load out some of the bars next to the covered shaft.

I'm considering making & offering for sale a digital scrap book of all the events, notes, maps & pictures of saguaros & rocks with codes on them & there's a lot!!
I have started scanning a lot of pages. Some of the people here only know what they read online & they think because it's online, it's set in stone.
I've been there, lived it & I knew the old prospectors that lived out there. I learned a lot from Doc that lived in a corregated metal shed out there & he was one of the nicest guys I've ever met. It was sad to see him live in the raw heat with nothing but a manual typewriter, he started getting a twitch in his eye.

Anyhow a lot of people here think i'm full of it, I just let it go, I don't care, I just want to get my dad's name out there & keep it there!
I don't want to hijack Bill's thread here so if your interested, send me a private email,
Carrol 3rd

View attachment 1264539

I kind of put together a similarity of the horse map stone to the land & the locations of some of the stones I found as a teen. Looks kind of cool!

View attachment 1264540

by the way these roads wern't there back then, 47 years ago.

Carrol , I have been reading your dad's website and I'm pretty sure I know the area he was in and I'm working on breaking the codes . I'll let you know what I come up with

 

[Carl995]

Carrol , I have been reading your dad's website and I'm pretty sure I know the area he was in and I'm working on breaking the codes . I'll let you know what I come up with

The codes my dad had worked out on the kings royal 5th & it was taken out from under him.
I do have in his notes the exact location of another confederate cache
but after doing the research on the location, it's on someones else's claim! That's why he didn't pursue it.
That claim is handed down in their family.

The kings 5th was on the Coyote claim renamed The Texans by my dad.
I have located one of his claim posts!!

View attachment 1264848

 

[gollum]

The mag only finds ferrous metal objects (iron, steel, etc). It won't see gold or silver, but it can find hinges, locks, guns, anything made of iron or steel. It will hit on something the size of a garbage can at about 12-15 feet depending on the ground conditions.

Mike