Original photos Stone Maps

[Old]

Here is the photo that we call the House Stones. I have received permission to copy the photo here. Please do not recopy or distribute further.

This photo's print date (March 1950) in its self causes serious issues with Clarence Mitchell's version of when the stones were found. There will be much room for healthy debate when the series of photos from this single roll of film are made public.

HouseStones by Ryan Gordon, on Flickr

 

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[cw0909]

i tried to see the break in the heart, looks to me like the heart is not broke
in this 1950 img, and you can see that the heart is broken in the bumper img
is there a date for the bumper img

forgot a pic

 

[Old]

CW, I will try to confirm that date for you.

 

[gollum]

CW,

On Feldman's Old LDM Forum, we went over that, and the heart insert is absolutely broken in the gas station picture. Since it was present there, Jim Hatt and I wanted to have the glue on the heart insert tested. SMHS's Statement on the matter was "The museum only displays the stone maps. It is not up to them to determine if they are authentic or not." That is what I was told were the feelings of the board.

There are differences between the museum stones and the stones on the bumper of the Buick. Some of them can be explained away by dirt or clay, but if Ryan is correct, there should be no dirt or clay in the grooves.

Mike

 

[cw0909]

There are differences between the museum stones and the stones on the bumper of the Buick. Some of them can be explained away by dirt or clay, but if Ryan is correct, there should be no dirt or clay in the grooves.

yea i noticed that b4, when i get sometime fri/sat, ill see how many imgs i can find
as i think the stone maps with the crosses and latin heart, on the DSUA blog are dif
too, than the museum and bumper stones.
as was said on the hoax thread here, the 50s stacked stones looks diff too

the ones you have posted at your oro site, those are from when and where, do you
remember their size

 

[gollum]

Those pics are from a friend of mine's office. He is a Hollywood Stunt Guy that has had an interest in Az Treasure Hunting for many years. He bought a house in Tumacacori just to hunt that cache. They are a set of copies. I don't remember exactly who made them though.

The biggest two differences for me are:

1. No dagger on upper trail stone (bumper pic). If the stone maps weren't found buried, then the excuse of there being dirt in the grooves doesn't hold water.

2. Large hole on lower trail stone on what looks to be Weaver's Needle. Not there on the bumper pic. Same excuse as above. Not buried, so no dirt to fill up the groove. Excuse doesn't stand.

Mike

 

[somehiker]

Here is the photo that we call the House Stones. I have received permission to copy the photo here. Please do not recopy or distribute further.

This photo's print date (March 1950) in its self causes serious issues with Clarence Mitchell's version of when the stones were found. There will be much room for healthy debate when the series of photos from this single roll of film are made public.

HouseStones by Ryan Gordon, on Flickr

The Mitchell-McGee correspondence mentions this photo.

From Gary Cundiff's collection/website.....

View attachment Mitchell toMcGee 6-22-65 trail stones photo.bmp

 

[cw0909]

somehiker, i just went to his site guess its down
i was going to look at a couple more mentions
in the mcgee papers about the stones
a cached pg here
Lost Dutchman Mine Documents

whoops forgot the link to pg
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gcundiff/LostDutchman/Dutchman.htm

 

[cw0909]

The biggest two differences for me are:

1. No dagger on upper trail stone (bumper pic). If the stone maps weren't found buried, then the excuse of there being dirt in the grooves doesn't hold water.

in the neg bumper stone img, the knife is there
bumper stones/negative


the 1950s stacked stones at the board wall up thread here
you can see the knife
house stones/stacked

no matter what i did i couldnt find a knife in the bumper img
from your site, maybe RG has a negative of that img, as the
one he posted has the knife, so there must be another without
the knife

 

[somehiker]

Hi Linda:

"This photo's print date (March 1950) in its self causes serious issues with Clarence Mitchell's version of when the stones were found."

How so ?

 

[deducer]

The Mitchell-McGee correspondence mentions this photo.

From Gary Cundiff's collection/website.....

View attachment 1277647

I was just thinking that.

Bet you that there's another photo where the stones are "on a white cloth about the size of a pillow case."

 

[Old]

Somehiker,

Mitchell's version (and other versions) indicate the Horse/Priest stone was found first. There was considerable () time between that discovery and the discovery of the trail stones.

I'm working from memory here but I believe the narrative tells us the Horse stone was found between Christmas and New Years of 1949. Feel free to fill in exact details. Travis took the stone home to study and learn from it. Time passed (weeks to months) as Travis learned and waited for additional vacation time to continue the search. When he returned to ultimately find the trail stones, Arizona was in its hot season. He speaks of the blazing sun, sweat, and heat of the desert. There isn't sufficient time between late December 1949 and end of March 1950 (print date of photo) to take all that in. To me, its a red flag liberty was taken with the time line.

 

[Old]

 

[Old]

CW, I am assuming the bumper img negative is from the same roll of film as the House Rocks (stacked stones) photo (Printed film). That would put it in that same pre March 1950 date range.

Keep in mind, I'm not in possession of all the material gathered, including the original stones and other artifacts. I only have access and work on that part where I can (maybe) add value. Sometimes I have to check back with others when you have questions on parts I'm not familiar with.

 

[BlackLine]

he took a photo of the stones and placed them infront of his car on a third stone that had the same size!? how probable is it that he found the third stone in the range? i think anybody gave him the stones to fake them and before he began with his work he took a photo from the original stones.

 

[sgtfda]

The stones on the bumper are setting on a board

 

[BlackLine]

i think it is the rest from the stone blank. if i take one stone and the rest together than it is a square.

 

[cactusjumper]

The stones on the bumper are setting on a board

Frank,

It's been quite a few years since I first mentioned that on the Feldman site. Kind of funny to see it still coming up years later.

For me, this is a conversation that can really go nowhere, just around and around. Much like the Calalus story, it all began from a lie. While the truth may be coming out now, the base of the story is rotten. You and Ryan may believe the stones have some worth but I doubt any treasure or unknown mine will be found with them. I believe any find will be pure coincidence. On the other hand, you will have fun looking and we will enjoy watching your efforts.

Hope all is well.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sgtfda]

Joe. I look at the stones as a primitive work of art. Not a treasure map. Travis had a little stone factory going. I look at the ground map as the key.

 

[cw0909]

maybe in the stones in the img thats from TG book,were made dirty to look like they
had been dug up.
in the, house stones/stacked & bumper stones/negative, you can see the knife

the bumper photo gollum/mike has posted at his blog a
Picture from Thomas Glover's Book "The Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz"
http://1oro1.com/images/stonemappics/foundstonemapsbumper.jpg