Arrastras

[EarnieP]

Thought I'd start a string on all things ARRASTRA
(or arastra and other various spellings).
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An article which includes excellent information on various older (including colonial Spanish) methods of sinking mine shafts, the use of arrastras, and other gold and silver mining and processing (amalgamation/patio) techniques;



'A Spanish "Arrastra" In The Wichita Mountains' by W. Eugene Hollon


http://digital.library.okstate.edu/Chronicles/v034/v034p443.pdf

 

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[gollum]

I know some people that found one on the North Side of Apache Lake that was still put together. They took up the floor stones, dug about two feet of dirt, panned it and got around $17,000 in dust. They think Indians may have chased the miners out before they could pull up the arrastra.

Mike

 

[EarnieP]

Arrastres near(?) Mormon Flat;

From the December 1983 Barry Storm article in Desert magazine;

..."Crossing the desert toward the northeast then, the Mexican rode on past the western end of the mountains, through the pass at Apache Gap and on to the Salt river beyond at Mormon Flat. And then he merely followed up the riverbank until he encountered the two old arrastres near the site where his father had said placer gold had been obtained. Near the site, too, of the mapped Canon Fresco!

But the arrastres were not all that he found.

There were human bones scattered about, still partially covered by the last disintegrating remnants of clothing. Nearby was the tumbled ruins of an old camp. Gonzales passed by the remains of the 26 year old massacre of the Peralta workers wonderingly, and went over to the camp.

And then with a gasp of amazement he saw behind the tumbled ruins of the breast-works, where Pedro's unlucky men on the river had made their last stand, the glitter of yellow gold shining through rotted hide sacks—concentrates from Pedro's mines back in the mountains!

This was indeed rare good fortune which Manuel Peralta had not foretold upon his deathbed. For with such a treasure Gonzales could live a full life in California. And no need now to seek farther up the Canon Fresco which his father had mapped, though that golden canyon was indeed right at hand, running southeast from the little valley later called Mormon Flat. It was in fact Tortilla canyon which trended east, and the mina location was about the junction of Peters canyon which came into it from the south, a scant four miles above."...
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Barry spins a good story, doesn't he?

 

[audigger53]

Good Fiction. The Peraltas (IMNSHO) were wiped out in Massacure Canyon both trips. This from the 2 trenches found there in 1948. Some day if I get back to Arizona and go to the Arizona Republic and go through the late 1963/early 1964 papers, I'll get a copy of the 1948 story that was filler for the murder in the supes on the guy from Hawaii by his best friend. I remember it for how much Uncle took and also because Coy DeArmand , the country sheriff was also our next door neighbor.

 

[gollum]

Good Fiction. The Peraltas (IMNSHO) were wiped out in Massacure Canyon both trips. This from the 2 trenches found there in 1948. Some day if I get back to Arizona and go to the Arizona Republic and go through the late 1963/early 1964 papers, I'll get a copy of the 1948 story that was filler for the murder in the supes on the guy from Hawaii by his best friend. I remember it for how much Uncle took and also because Coy DeArmand , the country sheriff was also our next door neighbor.

Buddy,

That is a great story. I got it a long time ago. Its not from 1948 though. It is from June 9th, 1959 edition:



A great story though. They find a huge chunk of what they thought was gold. One murders the other (his best friend) for that huge chunk of .............................. PYRITE! HAHAHA

I think you may have gotten that 1948 date from Tom Glover's first Dutchman Book. I remember the first time I was at Greg Davis' House, I looked for that story (and I think for the dates you gave too). We couldn't find it to save our lives. When I found the correct date, everything came out.

Enjoy - Mike

 

[Hal Croves]

Anyone know just how far a fully loaded pack burro could travel in one day, thru Superstition like terrain?

 

[Oroblanco]

Great thread topic!

I would only add that while most treasure hunters on finding an arrastra will automatically assume that it was left by the Spaniards, Mexicans or Jesuits (or Franciscans etc) but the truth is that many American prospectors also built and used arrastras. Sims Ely, John Chuning and Jim Bark built one near the gold mine they found and set up a water wheel from the Salt river to power it. So if you should find an old arrastra, look for other clues before making the assumption that it has to be Spanish.

Hal that is a great question, wish I knew the answer. There are documented cases where loaded pack mules made over 75 miles in one day, over the plains, however they were being led and driven by men on horseback. If led by a man afoot, clearly they could not cover nearly so much ground, and the terrain in the Superstitions would be a huge limiting factor. Anyone else have a figure on this?

Please do continue

 

[EarnieP]

Anyone know just how far a fully loaded pack burro could travel in one day, thru Superstition like terrain?

Haven't found anything on burros (small donkeys, wild asses) yet.
But for mules the (sacred) Wiki site says this under 'Pack Animals';

"The US Army specifies a maximum of 20 percent of body weight for mules walking up to 20 miles a day in mountains, giving a load of up to about 150 kg. However an 1867 text mentioned a load of up to 800 pounds (about 360 kg). In India, the prevention of cruelty rules (1965) limit mules to 200 kg and ponies to 70 kg."
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From the Colorado High Country Site, there is this;

"At one year's Burro Days in Fairplay, Colo., where there is both a pack-llama and a pack-burro race, it took the winner of the three-mile, 0-vertical-foot llama race 25 minutes and 28 seconds to reach the finish line. The next day the winner of the 30-mile burro race, which included more than 3,000 vertical-feet of ascent and descent, two stream crossings, a spongy mile-long tundra grind followed by a climb up a boulder field and rock glacier, four hours and 10 minutes to finish. The winning per-mile pace of the 10-times-longer and 10-times-harder burro race was still nearly 10 seconds faster than that of the winner of the llama contest."
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And this;
http://www.bopsecrets.org/rexroth/camping/6.htm#BURROS
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Not as informative (as far as daily distance travel) but interesting, this;
http://www.originalatv.com/blog/you-need-a-burro-2/

 

[cactusjumper]

Guy's,

From personal experience, and a very old memory, I would guess that you could make 15-20 miles a day leading a burro, assuming you could stay (for the most part) out of the boulder strewn canyons. If not, you might make 10-15 miles on a good day. Being familiar with the route would probably make for a much better results.



I have little doubt that Tom Kollenborn could make that number much higher.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Old]

I'm not 100% sure which direction we are going with this question. Don't know if we are still talking about possible Peralta massacre and how many, etc.

But.........I'm thinking water is going to be the limiting factor more than distance. Its also going to control the route, destination and the duration of the trip(s).

Just for round numbers here's some food for thought. 25 men and 25 burro will/should consume 200 gallons of water per day under exercise in desert conditions. Consider that amount of water weighs 1668 pounds not including the container(s). That's going to limit where you can go, for how long and how much "extra" material you can carry.

Horses require about double that amount of water per day. I'm told, water sources are few and far between in the main body of the Superstitions. I believe there are only 11 sources in the western regions and 8 in the eastern. Not all of them are perennial.

A burro can withstand more dehydration and can recover faster than a horse but they do have their limits. Also, a burro or mule is more picky about the purity of their water sources even under extreme dehydration.

Just something to think about.

Lynda

 

[EarnieP]

There's always the chance that Hal has found something( I'm thinking, something heavy). He may be trying to calculate how many burros it will take to get him and it in the direction of OUT.
Excessive smiling and uncontrollable laughter on his part (and possibly the burros) may increase the necessary rehydration factor. The caravan's rate of travel may also be affected by all members being in stealth mode, i.e. each burro will be wearing heavy socks (no tracks), and fitted with night vision goggles, while traveling during a dark and moonless night.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Thumb rule, max #200, travel approx on level ground 15 - 20 miles You can go from there. Mules better.

 

[Hal Croves]

I'm not 100% sure which direction we are going with this question. Don't know if we are still talking about possible Peralta massacre and how many, etc.

But.........I'm thinking water is going to be the limiting factor more than distance. Its also going to control the route, destination and the duration of the trip(s).

Just for round numbers here's some food for thought. 25 men and 25 burro will/should consume 200 gallons of water per day under exercise in desert conditions. Consider that amount of water weighs 1668 pounds not including the container(s). That's going to limit where you can go, for how long and how much "extra" material you can carry.

Horses require about double that amount of water per day. I'm told, water sources are few and far between in the main body of the Superstitions. I believe there are only 11 sources in the western regions and 8 in the eastern. Not all of them are perennial.

A burro can withstand more dehydration and can recover faster than a horse but they do have their limits. Also, a burro or mule is more picky about the purity of their water sources even under extreme dehydration.

Just something to think about.

Lynda

I was thinking about the idea of arrastras on the Salt. How far would be a reasonable distance to haul ore to a water source? There are other sources of water in the Superstitions. Why the Salt?

 

[Hal Croves]

There's always the chance that Hal has found something( I'm thinking, something heavy). He may be trying to calculate how many burros it will take to get him and it in the direction of OUT.
Excessive smiling and uncontrollable laughter on his part (and possibly the burros) may increase the necessary rehydration factor. The caravan's rate of travel may also be affected by all members being in stealth mode, i.e. each burro will be wearing heavy socks (no tracks), and fitted with night vision goggles, while traveling during a dark and moonless night.

EarnieP,
Unfortunately, I am a closeted Franciscan without the penchant for buggery.
Recovering lost history is enough.

 

[Hal Croves]

View attachment 1303241
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[coazon de oro]

Anyone know just how far a fully loaded pack burro could travel in one day, thru Superstition like terrain?

Howdy Hal,

Your question reminded me of the movie "A Time For Drunken Horses", where they spiked their water with alcohol, to get them moving over the cold mountains.

Homar

 

[EarnieP]

EarnieP,
Unfortunately, I am a closeted Franciscan without the penchant for buggery.
Recovering lost history is enough.

Hal, that line would make a fantastic opening sentence (two actually) to the book many of us believe you should write.

 

[Old]

I was thinking about the idea of arrastras on the Salt. How far would be a reasonable distance to haul ore to a water source? There are other sources of water in the Superstitions. Why the Salt?

Why not the Salt? It has a good flow, year round. An abundance of wild life for hunting. Has cut a deep trench in many of the mineralized areas doing much of the work for you. Has tributaries with known gold placers. Has flat bar areas with wide expanses for viewing incoming unwanted attention. Seems like a good staging location to me.

 

[deducer]

Why not the Salt? It has a good flow, year round. An abundance of wild life for hunting. Has cut a deep trench in many of the mineralized areas doing much of the work for you. Has tributaries with known gold placers. Has flat bar areas with wide expanses for viewing incoming unwanted attention. Seems like a good staging location to me.

Prior to the building of the first dam, the Roosevelt dam, in 1906, the Salt River expanded and contracted unpredictably and often ran dry during the summer months.

Interestingly enough the Hohokam had an extensive irrigation system in place when they disappeared. This irrigation system was revitalized around 1860 and reached peak usage in 1890, and this led to the movement to build the dam to store rain/snow runoffs from the mountains above.

 

[Old]

I guess its possible the Salt could have run dry in some extended drought periods but I don't think it was a normal circumstance. It would have been a rarity, I suspect. If the Salt ran dry I would venture to guess the whole area would have been in deep deep trouble. One would have much more to worry about than keeping the arrastra running.

Early explores remarked about the abundance of beaver in and around the river and its tributaries. Those vermin knew a thing or two about water conservation long before humankind got onto it.