Ted Cox and the Ridge Pit Mine

Matthew Roberts

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Quentin Ted Cox 164.jpg

Quentin Ted Cox 1957 photo by Bud Dunn


Quentin “Ted” Cox is the central character in the “Pit Mine” story as well as the Rogers Spring archaeological excavation also known as the HEAT excavation.
Cox was born at Globe, Arizona in 1920 the son of Samuel Cox who himself was a notorious lost mine hunter and prospector. Ted grew up listening to old timers around Globe tell tales and stories of lost mines, buried gold and Peralta Spanish treasure. In his teenage years Ted ran afoul of the law in several minor scrapes and had quite a reputation around Globe for hurrahing the town. By his early 20’s Ted was married and had moved to Torrance, California but remained tied to the Globe area where he frequently went prospecting and lost mine hunting.

By the latter 1950’s Ted believed he had discovered all of the Peralta Spanish mines as well as the Lost Dutchman Mine. He believed the Roger’s spring excavation site was the Peralta / Jacob Waltz cache of gold. By 1957 Ted had filed claim on at least 7 mines, all of them in the Rogers spring / Pit Mine area on the Southwest side of Iron Mountain. All of these mines that Ted claimed were mines he found that had been previously dug by what he believed to be the Peralta family of Mexico in the 1800 – 1848 time period and later one of them found by Jacob Waltz, the old Dutchman about 1868.

Cox stated he had successfully located at least 7 of the original Peralta mines. In 1957 he filed claim on these mines at the Pinal County Courthouse in Florence. Cox named these mines:

The Montana Bud mine
The Hermit’s Cave mine
The Dead Soldiers mine
The Geronimo’s Cave mine
The Golden Ransom mine
The Black Dyke mine
The Old Dutch mine

But there is one of Cox’s mines in particular that stands out and is directly relevant to the story of the “Pit Mine” and whether or not it may be the Lost Dutchman Mine. Cox believed this mine to be the actual Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz. He filed claim on this mine in Florence and named it the “Ridge Pit” Mine.

The Ridge Pit mine is the site of the original Silver Chief mine claimed by James Rogers in 1875. Ted Cox was fully aware of this fact as he saw this in the mining records of the Pioneer-Randolph and Rogers mining Districts and recorded his claim as a rediscovery of the site of the old Silver Chief. (The Silver Chief mine and the "Pit Mine" are the same location as researched and documented by Jack Carlson and Greg Davis.

Cox concluded the Peralta’s had dug this mine originally and later Jacob Waltz came along and according to which story you subscribe to either killed three Mexicans to get the mine or simply stumbled upon it one day. Cox believed Waltz covered his mine when he wasn’t working it and later in 1875 James Rogers came along and found it. After checking that no one had claimed the mine, Rogers filed claim to it and named it the Silver Chief. It should be noted the Silver Chief was the very first mine located and claimed in the region and was the richest producer.

One must keep in mind this is Ted Cox’s story, his own personal account and version of the Lost Dutchman mine, Silver Chief mine and not the version commonly known in books and literature.
If you take the time and trouble to research the Pinal mining records you will find just as others have, that the James Rogers 1875 Silver Chief claim was filed on as a rediscovery by Quentin Ted Cox in 1957 and named the Ridge Pit Mine.

Quentin Theodore Cox died in the spring of 1983 and it was then that his lengthy notes and manuscript (over 2000 hand printed pages) became public knowledge. Later on that same year, a story began to make the rounds that two men discovered a covered pit southwest of Iron Mountain which became known as the “Covered Mine” and later more widely known as the Pit Mine.
The story continues that in the years 1997 – 1999 a group of men mined the Pit Mine for an undisclosed amount of rich gold ore. Numerous photos of this gold ore have appeared on and off the internet. The identities of these men is supposedly secret although it is not much of a secret.

In 1979 yet another group of men worked in the old Silver Chief, Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine. At that time the mine was not a part of the Wilderness area. The miners were after low grade silver ore set aside by the original mining period of 1875 – 1885. Setting aside or backfilling low grade ore while going after only the richest ore was a common practice in the early mining days. The theory being the expense was too costly to recover the poorer ore. More often than not this low grade ore was left untouched when the mines closed down as unprofitable to process.

But in 1979 the price of silver and gold soared and this forgotten low grade ore became profitable. The old Silver Chief mine, Ted Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine is documented by Dept. of Mines and Mineral Resources Bureau of Mines and Mining Field Engineers Report Silver Chief 1979, 1980 as being among the mines to have been revisited during that 1979 silver boom. Not much silver was recovered in the 1979 time period and there was no mention of gold having been taken.

Is the old Silver Chief, Ridge Pit, “Pit Mine” the LDM ?
It's history has been clouded and confused to be sure. Some say yes it is the LDM, some say no it isn’t and some are undecided. I am on the fence over the issue. The involvement of Ted Cox and the 1979 crew does not change the story told by those who believe the Pit Mine is the LDM. It only changes the part about being the first on the scene since Jacob Waltz covered the mine. In some ways I see very good similarities between the Pit Mine and the LDM. A rock house nearby is a clue I always held in high regard and there was such a rock house near the Pit Mine. Like so many things surrounding the LDM legend I believe the issue will be argued and debated for many years to come.

Matthew
 

EarnieP

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Matthew when I read your wonderful stories I sense a ring of truth that shines as bright as Jacob's gold.
Thanks for all your 'brilliant' posts.
 

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View attachment 1329186

Quentin Ted Cox 1957 photo by Bud Dunn


Quentin “Ted” Cox is the central character in the “Pit Mine” story as well as the Rogers Spring archaeological excavation also known as the HEAT excavation.
Cox was born at Globe, Arizona in 1920 the son of Samuel Cox who himself was a notorious lost mine hunter and prospector. Ted grew up listening to old timers around Globe tell tales and stories of lost mines, buried gold and Peralta Spanish treasure. In his teenage years Ted ran afoul of the law in several minor scrapes and had quite a reputation around Globe for hurrahing the town. By his early 20’s Ted was married and had moved to Torrance, California but remained tied to the Globe area where he frequently went prospecting and lost mine hunting.

By the latter 1950’s Ted believed he had discovered all of the Peralta Spanish mines as well as the Lost Dutchman Mine. He believed the Roger’s spring excavation site was the Peralta / Jacob Waltz cache of gold. By 1957 Ted had filed claim on at least 7 mines, all of them in the Rogers spring / Pit Mine area on the Southwest side of Iron Mountain. All of these mines that Ted claimed were mines he found that had been previously dug by what he believed to be the Peralta family of Mexico in the 1800 – 1848 time period and later one of them found by Jacob Waltz, the old Dutchman about 1868.

Cox stated he had successfully located at least 7 of the original Peralta mines. In 1957 he filed claim on these mines at the Pinal County Courthouse in Florence. Cox named these mines:

The Montana Bud mine
The Hermit’s Cave mine
The Dead Soldiers mine
The Geronimo’s Cave mine
The Golden Ransom mine
The Black Dyke mine
The Old Dutch mine

But there is one of Cox’s mines in particular that stands out and is directly relevant to the story of the “Pit Mine” and whether or not it may be the Lost Dutchman Mine. Cox believed this mine to be the actual Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz. He filed claim on this mine in Florence and named it the “Ridge Pit” Mine.

The Ridge Pit mine is the site of the original Silver Chief mine claimed by James Rogers in 1875. Ted Cox was fully aware of this fact as he saw this in the mining records of the Pioneer-Randolph and Rogers mining Districts and recorded his claim as a rediscovery of the site of the old Silver Chief. (The Silver Chief mine and the "Pit Mine" are the same location as researched and documented by Jack Carlson and Greg Davis.

Cox concluded the Peralta’s had dug this mine originally and later Jacob Waltz came along and according to which story you subscribe to either killed three Mexicans to get the mine or simply stumbled upon it one day. Cox believed Waltz covered his mine when he wasn’t working it and later in 1875 James Rogers came along and found it. After checking that no one had claimed the mine, Rogers filed claim to it and named it the Silver Chief. It should be noted the Silver Chief was the very first mine located and claimed in the region and was the richest producer.

One must keep in mind this is Ted Cox’s story, his own personal account and version of the Lost Dutchman mine, Silver Chief mine and not the version commonly known in books and literature.
If you take the time and trouble to research the Pinal mining records you will find just as others have, that the James Rogers 1875 Silver Chief claim was filed on as a rediscovery by Quentin Ted Cox in 1957 and named the Ridge Pit Mine.

Quentin Theodore Cox died in the spring of 1983 and it was then that his lengthy notes and manuscript (over 2000 hand printed pages) became public knowledge. Later on that same year, a story began to make the rounds that two men discovered a covered pit southwest of Iron Mountain which became known as the “Covered Mine” and later more widely known as the Pit Mine.
The story continues that in the years 1997 – 1999 a group of men mined the Pit Mine for an undisclosed amount of rich gold ore. Numerous photos of this gold ore have appeared on and off the internet. The identities of these men is supposedly secret although it is not much of a secret.

In 1979 yet another group of men worked in the old Silver Chief, Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine. At that time the mine was not a part of the Wilderness area. The miners were after low grade silver ore set aside by the original mining period of 1875 – 1885. Setting aside or backfilling low grade ore while going after only the richest ore was a common practice in the early mining days. The theory being the expense was too costly to recover the poorer ore. More often than not this low grade ore was left untouched when the mines closed down as unprofitable to process.

But in 1979 the price of silver and gold soared and this forgotten low grade ore became profitable. The old Silver Chief mine, Ted Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine is documented by Dept. of Mines and Mineral Resources Bureau of Mines and Mining Field Engineers Report Silver Chief 1979, 1980 as being among the mines to have been revisited during that 1979 silver boom. Not much silver was recovered in the 1979 time period and there was no mention of gold having been taken.

Is the old Silver Chief, Ridge Pit, “Pit Mine” the LDM ?
It's history has been clouded and confused to be sure. Some say yes it is the LDM, some say no it isn’t and some are undecided. I am on the fence over the issue. The involvement of Ted Cox and the 1979 crew does not change the story told by those who believe the Pit Mine is the LDM. It only changes the part about being the first on the scene since Jacob Waltz covered the mine. In some ways I see very good similarities between the Pit Mine and the LDM. A rock house nearby is a clue I always held in high regard and there was such a rock house near the Pit Mine. Like so many things surrounding the LDM legend I believe the issue will be argued and debated for many years to come.

Matthew

Great post Matthew, a "like" was not a strong enough compliment. May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM.

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

EarnieP

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Hello Stroker,

What do you think that large butchered femur bone was in your walking stick picture? Steer bone?
 

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393stroker

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006.JPG Probably a deer bone. There was a broken wine jug and a rusty piece of sheet metal with some etching on it, but I could not make it out so I left it there. Maybe it`s a map or something. There was remains of a fire pit in there, and further down the ravine there is a propane bottle with another mining hole up on the hill next to it. 021.JPG An old nail found there.
 

Old

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Excellent recount Matthew.

Just to fill a couple of holes. Quintin (Ted) Cox was born March 3, 1920 and died April 8, 1983. He married Mamie Rose Billingslea originally of New Mexico on Sept. 17, 1943. This is possibly a second marriage for Mamie Rose. They were said to have had 2 children. One child (son) is thought to still be living, one child (daughter), Rose Marie, born Sept 2, 1944 having died October 15, 1997. Mamie Rose Cox died in Camp Verde, AZ in 2008.

During Ted Cox youth, as you tell us, the family lived in Globe, AZ. At the time of Ted's birth, Samuel, Ted's father was a machinist for a copper mine. Their next door neighbor was Arturo Salazar of Mexico and his family. Salazar also was a machinist for a copper mine.

Ted's father, Samuel, was born in Lexington, VA about 1870. Samuel was apparently orphaned as an early teenager. Samuel worked originally with the railroad as an engineer and later as a machinist. He was employed in Guadalajara, Mexico, for the railroad, where he met and married his first wife, Leticia in 1897. Ted Cox's older siblings were all born in Mexico. Samuel married second Bertha Drake originally of Kansas, but living in Mexico at the time of the marriage. Samuel and Bertha moved to Globe where Samuel continued to work for the Arizona Eastern Railroad Company.

Ted was born of the second marriage, Bertha Drake being his mother.

Just using all this background information as a spring board, I believe Ted was, from an early age, well versed in the Spanish language, Mexican history and legends. Its little wonder to me he spent a good portion of his life treasure hunting the mountains from Globe to Phoenix. He had opportunity and a rather unique perspective.

Matthew, having access as you apparently do to some (if not all of) Ted Cox's papers what's your opinion of his maps and diagrams of what he believed to be the Spanish diggings including his marked location for the Lost Dutchman? Although what we know as the "Pit mine" is roughly marked and in the area, its not (in my opinion) where Cox places the LDM. Thoughts????

Lynda
 

OP
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Matthew Roberts

Matthew Roberts

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Oroblanco wrote : May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM.

Oroblanco,

When I heard about the "Pit Mine" 16 years ago in a conversation with Ron Lorenz and Ron Feldman, and learned it was believed to be the LDM, I knew I had to see it for myself. When I was at the "Pit Mine" the site was open and with two friends was able to explore the mine. We were there for three days and two nights and were able to explore the surrounding area also. I saw several clues at the mine and surrounding area that may have fit clues to the Lost Dutchman. The remains of an old rock house not far from the mine opening, a house such as waltz described. The look of the physical opening to the mine itself. A trail you could see from the ridge the mine was on that Billy Martin said was an old cavalry trail. Billy called it the "Horse trail". Something else there too but I would rather not say what it was in public. The part I didn't like was the absence of gold and believe me I looked long and hard for any signs of gold or gold bearing ore both inside and outside the mine. It would have been hard to have taken rich gold from that mine and removed every trace from inside and out. The absence of gold could have however meant Waltz did not mine gold there, he simply used the mine as cache for gold he got elsewhere. I left the site with feelings both ways on the issue.

Since no one has definitively found the Lost Dutchman, and I do not claim to know where the LDM positively is, I leave open the possibility the "Pit Mine" may have been Waltz's mine/cache. Maybe someday someone will be able to prove one way or the other. I have my own favorite location of where I think the LDM is located but my location is no more valid that the next man's.

Matthew
 

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Matthew Roberts

Matthew Roberts

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Excellent recount Matthew.

Just to fill a couple of holes. Quintin (Ted) Cox was born March 3, 1920 and died April 8, 1983. He married Mamie Rose Billingslea originally of New Mexico on Sept. 17, 1943. This is possibly a second marriage for Mamie Rose. They were said to have had 2 children. One child (son) is thought to still be living, one child (daughter), Rose Marie, born Sept 2, 1944 having died October 15, 1997. Mamie Rose Cox died in Camp Verde, AZ in 2008.

During Ted Cox youth, as you tell us, the family lived in Globe, AZ. At the time of Ted's birth, Samuel, Ted's father was a machinist for a copper mine. Their next door neighbor was Arturo Salazar of Mexico and his family. Salazar also was a machinist for a copper mine.

Ted's father, Samuel, was born in Lexington, VA about 1870. Samuel was apparently orphaned as an early teenager. Samuel worked originally with the railroad as an engineer and later as a machinist. He was employed in Guadalajara, Mexico, for the railroad, where he met and married his first wife, Leticia in 1897. Ted Cox's older siblings were all born in Mexico. Samuel married second Bertha Drake originally of Kansas, but living in Mexico at the time of the marriage. Samuel and Bertha moved to Globe where Samuel continued to work for the Arizona Eastern Railroad Company.

Ted was born of the second marriage, Bertha Drake being his mother.

Just using all this background information as a spring board, I believe Ted was, from an early age, well versed in the Spanish language, Mexican history and legends. Its little wonder to me he spent a good portion of his life treasure hunting the mountains from Globe to Phoenix. He had opportunity and a rather unique perspective.

Matthew, having access as you apparently do to some (if not all of) Ted Cox's papers what's your opinion of his maps and diagrams of what he believed to be the Spanish diggings including his marked location for the Lost Dutchman? Although what we know as the "Pit mine" is roughly marked and in the area, its not (in my opinion) where Cox places the LDM. Thoughts????

Lynda


Old,

Yes, I have read Ted Cox's letters, manuscript and maps. It took me the better part of a year. Cox's hand printing is like reading Egyptian hyroglyphics and you can only look at it for about an hour before your eyes start to un-focus. There are around 2000 pages and some other scattered notes and letters. This is not to mention the correspondence between his two partners Bud and Wally which further confuses things.
Reading Cox's writings you encounter a basically pointless thought process where he waffles back and forth on what he believes based on his latest trip to the mountains, his fight with the Forest Service and local ranchers or something he has just read. To understand Ted Cox you have to fight your way through the whole thing, you cannot take a sentence or a paragraph off a page or a diagram and say, "here is what Ted Cox believed." Because if you keep reading you will eventually come to an altogether different conclusion.
Ted's mining claims are fairly definite and someone with some experience in filing claims must have helped him because they are quite accurate.
All I can say is get a copy of Cox's entire manuscript, letters and drawings ( it is available ) read it through start to finish and you will have a much different perspective.

Best to you as always,
Matthew
 

cactusjumper

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Old,

Yes, I have read Ted Cox's letters, manuscript and maps. It took me the better part of a year. Cox's hand printing is like reading Egyptian hyroglyphics and you can only look at it for about an hour before your eyes start to un-focus. There are around 2000 pages and some other scattered notes and letters. This is not to mention the correspondence between his two partners Bud and Wally which further confuses things.
Reading Cox's writings you encounter a basically pointless thought process where he waffles back and forth on what he believes based on his latest trip to the mountains, his fight with the Forest Service and local ranchers or something he has just read. To understand Ted Cox you have to fight your way through the whole thing, you cannot take a sentence or a paragraph off a page or a diagram and say, "here is what Ted Cox believed." Because if you keep reading you will eventually come to an altogether different conclusion.
Ted's mining claims are fairly definite and someone with some experience in filing claims must have helped him because they are quite accurate.
All I can say is get a copy of Cox's entire manuscript, letters and drawings ( it is available ) read it through start to finish and you will have a much different perspective.

Best to you as always,
Matthew

Matthew,

Great posts! It never ceases to amaze me how much historical information, concerning the Superstition Mountains, can be found in Greg Davis' file cabinets. Most of us would have to live there for years to dig through it all. Since Greg seldom posts, we are all very lucky to have such a conduit.

Once again, very nice posts,

Joe Ribaudo
 

audigger53

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Actually for filing a claim in Arizona, it just needs a 2X2 4 feet above the ground or a rock cairn 3 feet high with a drawing of the claim with landmarks so it can be found by the State Mining Eng's from the copy filed at the county seat. Then mark/stake the 4 corners and 4 center lines with in 90 days of filing. That was from the handbook of Arizona mining laws. They prefer copies of 7.5 min USGS with the 600 X 900 Feet Load claim or 20 acres for placer, but they have to take maps draw "To the best of your ability". I memorized that in 1980.
 

azdave35

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roy wrote: " Oroblanco wrote : May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM."

roy...there are alot more clues that put the ldm at the pit mine but like matthew says ..i dont want to post them public....there is only so much you can do from a computer...if you make it down here in october your questions will be answered...hopefully by me if health permits...
 

audigger53

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Question, could the Pit Mine be Waggoner's? Just a thought, don't know of many gold ledges in there.
 

Old

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Matthew, thank you very much for your insight. It does add another level of understanding of the man.

I would LOVE to read all of Cox's papers. If you can direct me to where I can obtain those I would be forever in your debt.

Having not read all of his writing and only having read a few pages, its difficult for me to form an overall opinion. What does strike me as genuine is Cox's diagrams of the Roger's site. You can overlay his diagrams of what "would be" found there against the archeologist's later diagrams, made long after Cox's death, of what "was" found there and they are near identical. That gives me reason to at least give some credence to what the man has to say on other sites.

I don't hold it against him for changing his mind as he explored and learned more. I think we all do that.........at least the smarter ones do. <g>.

As to his printing style.....its challenging, that's for sure. But; its a piece of cake as opposed to 15th and 16th century old English. I get a study diet of that. Sometimes I'm lucky if I can recognize one out of four words. Its a puzzle I have to figure out one word at a time, working backwards most times with a magnifying glass in one hand and an old English dictionary in the other.

Lynda
 

cactusjumper

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Just out of the gate, the first problem is Ted Cox himself. Those who trust what he said/wrote, would probably trust other known liars. Always question your sources, including me.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
 

cactusjumper

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roy wrote: " Oroblanco wrote : May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM."

roy...there are alot more clues that put the ldm at the pit mine but like matthew says ..i dont want to post them public....there is only so much you can do from a computer...if you make it down here in october your questions will be answered...hopefully by me if health permits...

Dave,

Your comments have me, as well as others, concerned. It may be I can give you some hard learned advice, if you want it.

Take care,

Joe
 

EarnieP

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It appears the mines Cox found, worked, and claimed are public record. (As provided by Matthew.)
At least one location apparently exact with a known mine of today. (As confirmed by Old.)
What Cox believed was the history of those reclaimed mines was his opinion at the time. (Joe educated us on fact vs. opinion.)
What part of that makes Mr. Cox a liar?
 

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