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Thread: Ted Cox and the Ridge Pit Mine

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  1. #1
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Ted Cox and the Ridge Pit Mine

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quentin Ted Cox 1957 photo by Bud Dunn


    Quentin “Ted” Cox is the central character in the “Pit Mine” story as well as the Rogers Spring archaeological excavation also known as the HEAT excavation.
    Cox was born at Globe, Arizona in 1920 the son of Samuel Cox who himself was a notorious lost mine hunter and prospector. Ted grew up listening to old timers around Globe tell tales and stories of lost mines, buried gold and Peralta Spanish treasure. In his teenage years Ted ran afoul of the law in several minor scrapes and had quite a reputation around Globe for hurrahing the town. By his early 20’s Ted was married and had moved to Torrance, California but remained tied to the Globe area where he frequently went prospecting and lost mine hunting.

    By the latter 1950’s Ted believed he had discovered all of the Peralta Spanish mines as well as the Lost Dutchman Mine. He believed the Roger’s spring excavation site was the Peralta / Jacob Waltz cache of gold. By 1957 Ted had filed claim on at least 7 mines, all of them in the Rogers spring / Pit Mine area on the Southwest side of Iron Mountain. All of these mines that Ted claimed were mines he found that had been previously dug by what he believed to be the Peralta family of Mexico in the 1800 – 1848 time period and later one of them found by Jacob Waltz, the old Dutchman about 1868.

    Cox stated he had successfully located at least 7 of the original Peralta mines. In 1957 he filed claim on these mines at the Pinal County Courthouse in Florence. Cox named these mines:

    The Montana Bud mine
    The Hermit’s Cave mine
    The Dead Soldiers mine
    The Geronimo’s Cave mine
    The Golden Ransom mine
    The Black Dyke mine
    The Old Dutch mine

    But there is one of Cox’s mines in particular that stands out and is directly relevant to the story of the “Pit Mine” and whether or not it may be the Lost Dutchman Mine. Cox believed this mine to be the actual Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz. He filed claim on this mine in Florence and named it the “Ridge Pit” Mine.

    The Ridge Pit mine is the site of the original Silver Chief mine claimed by James Rogers in 1875. Ted Cox was fully aware of this fact as he saw this in the mining records of the Pioneer-Randolph and Rogers mining Districts and recorded his claim as a rediscovery of the site of the old Silver Chief. (The Silver Chief mine and the "Pit Mine" are the same location as researched and documented by Jack Carlson and Greg Davis.

    Cox concluded the Peralta’s had dug this mine originally and later Jacob Waltz came along and according to which story you subscribe to either killed three Mexicans to get the mine or simply stumbled upon it one day. Cox believed Waltz covered his mine when he wasn’t working it and later in 1875 James Rogers came along and found it. After checking that no one had claimed the mine, Rogers filed claim to it and named it the Silver Chief. It should be noted the Silver Chief was the very first mine located and claimed in the region and was the richest producer.

    One must keep in mind this is Ted Cox’s story, his own personal account and version of the Lost Dutchman mine, Silver Chief mine and not the version commonly known in books and literature.
    If you take the time and trouble to research the Pinal mining records you will find just as others have, that the James Rogers 1875 Silver Chief claim was filed on as a rediscovery by Quentin Ted Cox in 1957 and named the Ridge Pit Mine.

    Quentin Theodore Cox died in the spring of 1983 and it was then that his lengthy notes and manuscript (over 2000 hand printed pages) became public knowledge. Later on that same year, a story began to make the rounds that two men discovered a covered pit southwest of Iron Mountain which became known as the “Covered Mine” and later more widely known as the Pit Mine.
    The story continues that in the years 1997 – 1999 a group of men mined the Pit Mine for an undisclosed amount of rich gold ore. Numerous photos of this gold ore have appeared on and off the internet. The identities of these men is supposedly secret although it is not much of a secret.

    In 1979 yet another group of men worked in the old Silver Chief, Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine. At that time the mine was not a part of the Wilderness area. The miners were after low grade silver ore set aside by the original mining period of 1875 – 1885. Setting aside or backfilling low grade ore while going after only the richest ore was a common practice in the early mining days. The theory being the expense was too costly to recover the poorer ore. More often than not this low grade ore was left untouched when the mines closed down as unprofitable to process.

    But in 1979 the price of silver and gold soared and this forgotten low grade ore became profitable. The old Silver Chief mine, Ted Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine is documented by Dept. of Mines and Mineral Resources Bureau of Mines and Mining Field Engineers Report Silver Chief 1979, 1980 as being among the mines to have been revisited during that 1979 silver boom. Not much silver was recovered in the 1979 time period and there was no mention of gold having been taken.

    Is the old Silver Chief, Ridge Pit, “Pit Mine” the LDM ?
    It's history has been clouded and confused to be sure. Some say yes it is the LDM, some say no it isn’t and some are undecided. I am on the fence over the issue. The involvement of Ted Cox and the 1979 crew does not change the story told by those who believe the Pit Mine is the LDM. It only changes the part about being the first on the scene since Jacob Waltz covered the mine. In some ways I see very good similarities between the Pit Mine and the LDM. A rock house nearby is a clue I always held in high regard and there was such a rock house near the Pit Mine. Like so many things surrounding the LDM legend I believe the issue will be argued and debated for many years to come.

    Matthew

  2. #2

    Jul 2015
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    Matthew when I read your wonderful stories I sense a ring of truth that shines as bright as Jacob's gold.
    Thanks for all your 'brilliant' posts.
    ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  3. #3
    us
    Chuck Chatsko

    Jun 2012
    HOUSTON
    Garrett pro-something
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    Here`s some photo`s of some rock walls I found in the ravine below the pit mine on my way out. Click image for larger version. 

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    EarnieP, azdave35, Loke and 9 others like this.
    Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

  4. #4
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,405
    8188 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Roberts View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Quentin Ted Cox 164.jpg 
Views:	318 
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ID:	1329186

    Quentin Ted Cox 1957 photo by Bud Dunn


    Quentin “Ted” Cox is the central character in the “Pit Mine” story as well as the Rogers Spring archaeological excavation also known as the HEAT excavation.
    Cox was born at Globe, Arizona in 1920 the son of Samuel Cox who himself was a notorious lost mine hunter and prospector. Ted grew up listening to old timers around Globe tell tales and stories of lost mines, buried gold and Peralta Spanish treasure. In his teenage years Ted ran afoul of the law in several minor scrapes and had quite a reputation around Globe for hurrahing the town. By his early 20’s Ted was married and had moved to Torrance, California but remained tied to the Globe area where he frequently went prospecting and lost mine hunting.

    By the latter 1950’s Ted believed he had discovered all of the Peralta Spanish mines as well as the Lost Dutchman Mine. He believed the Roger’s spring excavation site was the Peralta / Jacob Waltz cache of gold. By 1957 Ted had filed claim on at least 7 mines, all of them in the Rogers spring / Pit Mine area on the Southwest side of Iron Mountain. All of these mines that Ted claimed were mines he found that had been previously dug by what he believed to be the Peralta family of Mexico in the 1800 – 1848 time period and later one of them found by Jacob Waltz, the old Dutchman about 1868.

    Cox stated he had successfully located at least 7 of the original Peralta mines. In 1957 he filed claim on these mines at the Pinal County Courthouse in Florence. Cox named these mines:

    The Montana Bud mine
    The Hermit’s Cave mine
    The Dead Soldiers mine
    The Geronimo’s Cave mine
    The Golden Ransom mine
    The Black Dyke mine
    The Old Dutch mine

    But there is one of Cox’s mines in particular that stands out and is directly relevant to the story of the “Pit Mine” and whether or not it may be the Lost Dutchman Mine. Cox believed this mine to be the actual Lost Dutchman Mine of Jacob Waltz. He filed claim on this mine in Florence and named it the “Ridge Pit” Mine.

    The Ridge Pit mine is the site of the original Silver Chief mine claimed by James Rogers in 1875. Ted Cox was fully aware of this fact as he saw this in the mining records of the Pioneer-Randolph and Rogers mining Districts and recorded his claim as a rediscovery of the site of the old Silver Chief. (The Silver Chief mine and the "Pit Mine" are the same location as researched and documented by Jack Carlson and Greg Davis.

    Cox concluded the Peralta’s had dug this mine originally and later Jacob Waltz came along and according to which story you subscribe to either killed three Mexicans to get the mine or simply stumbled upon it one day. Cox believed Waltz covered his mine when he wasn’t working it and later in 1875 James Rogers came along and found it. After checking that no one had claimed the mine, Rogers filed claim to it and named it the Silver Chief. It should be noted the Silver Chief was the very first mine located and claimed in the region and was the richest producer.

    One must keep in mind this is Ted Cox’s story, his own personal account and version of the Lost Dutchman mine, Silver Chief mine and not the version commonly known in books and literature.
    If you take the time and trouble to research the Pinal mining records you will find just as others have, that the James Rogers 1875 Silver Chief claim was filed on as a rediscovery by Quentin Ted Cox in 1957 and named the Ridge Pit Mine.

    Quentin Theodore Cox died in the spring of 1983 and it was then that his lengthy notes and manuscript (over 2000 hand printed pages) became public knowledge. Later on that same year, a story began to make the rounds that two men discovered a covered pit southwest of Iron Mountain which became known as the “Covered Mine” and later more widely known as the Pit Mine.
    The story continues that in the years 1997 – 1999 a group of men mined the Pit Mine for an undisclosed amount of rich gold ore. Numerous photos of this gold ore have appeared on and off the internet. The identities of these men is supposedly secret although it is not much of a secret.

    In 1979 yet another group of men worked in the old Silver Chief, Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine. At that time the mine was not a part of the Wilderness area. The miners were after low grade silver ore set aside by the original mining period of 1875 – 1885. Setting aside or backfilling low grade ore while going after only the richest ore was a common practice in the early mining days. The theory being the expense was too costly to recover the poorer ore. More often than not this low grade ore was left untouched when the mines closed down as unprofitable to process.

    But in 1979 the price of silver and gold soared and this forgotten low grade ore became profitable. The old Silver Chief mine, Ted Cox’s Ridge Pit Mine is documented by Dept. of Mines and Mineral Resources Bureau of Mines and Mining Field Engineers Report Silver Chief 1979, 1980 as being among the mines to have been revisited during that 1979 silver boom. Not much silver was recovered in the 1979 time period and there was no mention of gold having been taken.

    Is the old Silver Chief, Ridge Pit, “Pit Mine” the LDM ?
    It's history has been clouded and confused to be sure. Some say yes it is the LDM, some say no it isn’t and some are undecided. I am on the fence over the issue. The involvement of Ted Cox and the 1979 crew does not change the story told by those who believe the Pit Mine is the LDM. It only changes the part about being the first on the scene since Jacob Waltz covered the mine. In some ways I see very good similarities between the Pit Mine and the LDM. A rock house nearby is a clue I always held in high regard and there was such a rock house near the Pit Mine. Like so many things surrounding the LDM legend I believe the issue will be argued and debated for many years to come.

    Matthew
    Great post Matthew, a "like" was not a strong enough compliment. May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM.

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  5. #5

    Jan 2014
    1,787
    3329 times
    Interesting story, thanks for sharing.

  6. #6

    Jul 2015
    525
    1062 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hello Stroker,

    What do you think that large butchered femur bone was in your walking stick picture? Steer bone?
    Last edited by EarnieP; Jun 25, 2016 at 07:53 AM.
    ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  7. #7
    us
    Chuck Chatsko

    Jun 2012
    HOUSTON
    Garrett pro-something
    358
    356 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1329327Probably a deer bone. There was a broken wine jug and a rusty piece of sheet metal with some etching on it, but I could not make it out so I left it there. Maybe it`s a map or something. There was remains of a fire pit in there, and further down the ravine there is a propane bottle with another mining hole up on the hill next to it.Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1329326An old nail found there.
    Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

  8. #8
    Old
    Old is offline
    us
    Feb 2015
    Virginia
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    Excellent recount Matthew.

    Just to fill a couple of holes. Quintin (Ted) Cox was born March 3, 1920 and died April 8, 1983. He married Mamie Rose Billingslea originally of New Mexico on Sept. 17, 1943. This is possibly a second marriage for Mamie Rose. They were said to have had 2 children. One child (son) is thought to still be living, one child (daughter), Rose Marie, born Sept 2, 1944 having died October 15, 1997. Mamie Rose Cox died in Camp Verde, AZ in 2008.

    During Ted Cox youth, as you tell us, the family lived in Globe, AZ. At the time of Ted's birth, Samuel, Ted's father was a machinist for a copper mine. Their next door neighbor was Arturo Salazar of Mexico and his family. Salazar also was a machinist for a copper mine.

    Ted's father, Samuel, was born in Lexington, VA about 1870. Samuel was apparently orphaned as an early teenager. Samuel worked originally with the railroad as an engineer and later as a machinist. He was employed in Guadalajara, Mexico, for the railroad, where he met and married his first wife, Leticia in 1897. Ted Cox's older siblings were all born in Mexico. Samuel married second Bertha Drake originally of Kansas, but living in Mexico at the time of the marriage. Samuel and Bertha moved to Globe where Samuel continued to work for the Arizona Eastern Railroad Company.

    Ted was born of the second marriage, Bertha Drake being his mother.

    Just using all this background information as a spring board, I believe Ted was, from an early age, well versed in the Spanish language, Mexican history and legends. Its little wonder to me he spent a good portion of his life treasure hunting the mountains from Globe to Phoenix. He had opportunity and a rather unique perspective.

    Matthew, having access as you apparently do to some (if not all of) Ted Cox's papers what's your opinion of his maps and diagrams of what he believed to be the Spanish diggings including his marked location for the Lost Dutchman? Although what we know as the "Pit mine" is roughly marked and in the area, its not (in my opinion) where Cox places the LDM. Thoughts?

    Lynda

  9. #9
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
    751
    3183 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Oroblanco wrote : May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM.

    Oroblanco,

    When I heard about the "Pit Mine" 16 years ago in a conversation with Ron Lorenz and Ron Feldman, and learned it was believed to be the LDM, I knew I had to see it for myself. When I was at the "Pit Mine" the site was open and with two friends was able to explore the mine. We were there for three days and two nights and were able to explore the surrounding area also. I saw several clues at the mine and surrounding area that may have fit clues to the Lost Dutchman. The remains of an old rock house not far from the mine opening, a house such as waltz described. The look of the physical opening to the mine itself. A trail you could see from the ridge the mine was on that Billy Martin said was an old cavalry trail. Billy called it the "Horse trail". Something else there too but I would rather not say what it was in public. The part I didn't like was the absence of gold and believe me I looked long and hard for any signs of gold or gold bearing ore both inside and outside the mine. It would have been hard to have taken rich gold from that mine and removed every trace from inside and out. The absence of gold could have however meant Waltz did not mine gold there, he simply used the mine as cache for gold he got elsewhere. I left the site with feelings both ways on the issue.

    Since no one has definitively found the Lost Dutchman, and I do not claim to know where the LDM positively is, I leave open the possibility the "Pit Mine" may have been Waltz's mine/cache. Maybe someday someone will be able to prove one way or the other. I have my own favorite location of where I think the LDM is located but my location is no more valid that the next man's.

    Matthew

  10. #10
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
    751
    3183 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Old View Post
    Excellent recount Matthew.

    Just to fill a couple of holes. Quintin (Ted) Cox was born March 3, 1920 and died April 8, 1983. He married Mamie Rose Billingslea originally of New Mexico on Sept. 17, 1943. This is possibly a second marriage for Mamie Rose. They were said to have had 2 children. One child (son) is thought to still be living, one child (daughter), Rose Marie, born Sept 2, 1944 having died October 15, 1997. Mamie Rose Cox died in Camp Verde, AZ in 2008.

    During Ted Cox youth, as you tell us, the family lived in Globe, AZ. At the time of Ted's birth, Samuel, Ted's father was a machinist for a copper mine. Their next door neighbor was Arturo Salazar of Mexico and his family. Salazar also was a machinist for a copper mine.

    Ted's father, Samuel, was born in Lexington, VA about 1870. Samuel was apparently orphaned as an early teenager. Samuel worked originally with the railroad as an engineer and later as a machinist. He was employed in Guadalajara, Mexico, for the railroad, where he met and married his first wife, Leticia in 1897. Ted Cox's older siblings were all born in Mexico. Samuel married second Bertha Drake originally of Kansas, but living in Mexico at the time of the marriage. Samuel and Bertha moved to Globe where Samuel continued to work for the Arizona Eastern Railroad Company.

    Ted was born of the second marriage, Bertha Drake being his mother.

    Just using all this background information as a spring board, I believe Ted was, from an early age, well versed in the Spanish language, Mexican history and legends. Its little wonder to me he spent a good portion of his life treasure hunting the mountains from Globe to Phoenix. He had opportunity and a rather unique perspective.

    Matthew, having access as you apparently do to some (if not all of) Ted Cox's papers what's your opinion of his maps and diagrams of what he believed to be the Spanish diggings including his marked location for the Lost Dutchman? Although what we know as the "Pit mine" is roughly marked and in the area, its not (in my opinion) where Cox places the LDM. Thoughts?

    Lynda

    Old,

    Yes, I have read Ted Cox's letters, manuscript and maps. It took me the better part of a year. Cox's hand printing is like reading Egyptian hyroglyphics and you can only look at it for about an hour before your eyes start to un-focus. There are around 2000 pages and some other scattered notes and letters. This is not to mention the correspondence between his two partners Bud and Wally which further confuses things.
    Reading Cox's writings you encounter a basically pointless thought process where he waffles back and forth on what he believes based on his latest trip to the mountains, his fight with the Forest Service and local ranchers or something he has just read. To understand Ted Cox you have to fight your way through the whole thing, you cannot take a sentence or a paragraph off a page or a diagram and say, "here is what Ted Cox believed." Because if you keep reading you will eventually come to an altogether different conclusion.
    Ted's mining claims are fairly definite and someone with some experience in filing claims must have helped him because they are quite accurate.
    All I can say is get a copy of Cox's entire manuscript, letters and drawings ( it is available ) read it through start to finish and you will have a much different perspective.

    Best to you as always,
    Matthew

  11. #11

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    7,748
    5301 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Roberts View Post
    Old,

    Yes, I have read Ted Cox's letters, manuscript and maps. It took me the better part of a year. Cox's hand printing is like reading Egyptian hyroglyphics and you can only look at it for about an hour before your eyes start to un-focus. There are around 2000 pages and some other scattered notes and letters. This is not to mention the correspondence between his two partners Bud and Wally which further confuses things.
    Reading Cox's writings you encounter a basically pointless thought process where he waffles back and forth on what he believes based on his latest trip to the mountains, his fight with the Forest Service and local ranchers or something he has just read. To understand Ted Cox you have to fight your way through the whole thing, you cannot take a sentence or a paragraph off a page or a diagram and say, "here is what Ted Cox believed." Because if you keep reading you will eventually come to an altogether different conclusion.
    Ted's mining claims are fairly definite and someone with some experience in filing claims must have helped him because they are quite accurate.
    All I can say is get a copy of Cox's entire manuscript, letters and drawings ( it is available ) read it through start to finish and you will have a much different perspective.

    Best to you as always,
    Matthew
    Matthew,

    Great posts! It never ceases to amaze me how much historical information, concerning the Superstition Mountains, can be found in Greg Davis' file cabinets. Most of us would have to live there for years to dig through it all. Since Greg seldom posts, we are all very lucky to have such a conduit.

    Once again, very nice posts,

    Joe Ribaudo
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  12. #12
    us
    Mar 2004
    Severn, Maryland
    None
    891
    3153 times
    Cache Hunting
    Actually for filing a claim in Arizona, it just needs a 2X2 4 feet above the ground or a rock cairn 3 feet high with a drawing of the claim with landmarks so it can be found by the State Mining Eng's from the copy filed at the county seat. Then mark/stake the 4 corners and 4 center lines with in 90 days of filing. That was from the handbook of Arizona mining laws. They prefer copies of 7.5 min USGS with the 600 X 900 Feet Load claim or 20 acres for placer, but they have to take maps draw "To the best of your ability". I memorized that in 1980.

  13. #13
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,365
    5391 times
    roy wrote: " Oroblanco wrote : May I ask why you remain on the fence, viz the Pit mine being the LDM? Thanks in advance, in any case and no this is not an attempt to start an argument just curious as to what doubt(s) or convincing evidence(s) are preventing you from making the conclusion that so many others have, about the Pit mine being the LDM."

    roy...there are alot more clues that put the ldm at the pit mine but like matthew says ..i dont want to post them public....there is only so much you can do from a computer...if you make it down here in october your questions will be answered...hopefully by me if health permits...
    cactusjumper and Oroblanco like this.

  14. #14
    us
    Mar 2004
    Severn, Maryland
    None
    891
    3153 times
    Cache Hunting
    Question, could the Pit Mine be Waggoner's? Just a thought, don't know of many gold ledges in there.

  15. #15
    Old
    Old is offline
    us
    Feb 2015
    Virginia
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    Matthew, thank you very much for your insight. It does add another level of understanding of the man.

    I would LOVE to read all of Cox's papers. If you can direct me to where I can obtain those I would be forever in your debt.

    Having not read all of his writing and only having read a few pages, its difficult for me to form an overall opinion. What does strike me as genuine is Cox's diagrams of the Roger's site. You can overlay his diagrams of what "would be" found there against the archeologist's later diagrams, made long after Cox's death, of what "was" found there and they are near identical. That gives me reason to at least give some credence to what the man has to say on other sites.

    I don't hold it against him for changing his mind as he explored and learned more. I think we all do that.........at least the smarter ones do. <g>.

    As to his printing style.....its challenging, that's for sure. But; its a piece of cake as opposed to 15th and 16th century old English. I get a study diet of that. Sometimes I'm lucky if I can recognize one out of four words. Its a puzzle I have to figure out one word at a time, working backwards most times with a magnifying glass in one hand and an old English dictionary in the other.

    Lynda

 

 
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