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Thread: Jesuit dutchman

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  1. #16
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
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    Just to show that this idea of a Jesuit connection to the Lost Dutchman is not a new idea, here is one from 1966

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...=7293%2C343314

    Glen Magill apparently believed that Waltz had found an old Jesuit mine. I wonder what Baker Loonie would have to say about this idea, as he was a member of that team?

    Please do continue;
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  2. #17

    Oct 2007
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ID:	1365374... in the writing of this letter they talk about some miners in the Walnut Grove District asking for help from Governor goodwin.. I have the letter with Jacob waltzs signature on it... I have already posted that letter in an earlier forum for all to see.db
    Last edited by DanB; Oct 01, 2016 at 02:40 AM.
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  3. #18
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by deducer View Post
    Not only that, but just two centuries later, a Jesuit sits on the highest throne of the Catholic hierarchy. I suspect Clement XIV would be a little upset to discover that, if he were alive today.
    deducer,

    As I'm sure you know, Clement XIV was a Franciscan. As such he likely had little good will towards the Jesuits. Despite that, he was forced to abolish the Order "for all eternity." Before his death, around one year later, "he had often been heard to cry out, '"Mercy, mercy. Compulsus feci. I was compelled to do it.'" I don't believe he would have acted without a great deal of pressure from others, especially Spain, who had threatened to establish its own national church if he did not move against the Jesuits. Having said that, I'm not sure he would have been that upset.

    Take care,

    Joe
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  4. #19
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,263
    1941 times
    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper View Post
    deducer,

    As I'm sure you know, Clement XIV was a Franciscan. As such he likely had little good will towards the Jesuits. Despite that, he was forced to abolish the Order "for all eternity." Before his death, around one year later, "he had often been heard to cry out, '"Mercy, mercy. Compulsus feci. I was compelled to do it.'" I don't believe he would have acted without a great deal of pressure from others, especially Spain, who had threatened to establish its own national church if he did not move against the Jesuits. Having said that, I'm not sure he would have been that upset.

    Take care,

    Joe
    cactusjumper,

    Posts like this one only work to remind me of the campfire conversations that I will be missing at this years gathering.

    I would say that anyone interested in the idea of Jesuit mining in the Superstitions should read: THE WORKS OF HUBERT HOWE BANCROFT VOLUME XVII - HISTORY OF ARIZONA AND NEW MEXICO.


    The Spanish and the Apache did experience a long period of peace. This is when any mining in the Superstitions would have been relatively safe.
    That changed when the Spanish lost control of the frontier.

    Even the first whites to explore the area were safe from Apache harassment until they were not.

    Bancroft answers the question of 'when" it was possible.
    When one compares Bancroft's timeline to the Peralta genealogy, the result is a list of potential names.

  5. #20
    au
    Marty

    Sep 2013
    Sydney
    CTX 3030 GPX 5000 Garrett Infinium LS AT Pro AT Gold 45 inch mono Drag Coil
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by sgtfda View Post
    Thanks for watching the show.
    Sarge. Whats the latest news mate.
    Can you let us in om anything. Second season?

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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  6. #21
    us
    Jan 2013
    Arizona
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    I want to say that I'm glad those mines haven't been found by anyone, and then many here do not believe in the spanish franciscan / jesuit templar symbols in the superstition mountains. I don't join in on any of your discussions here or go to your rendezvous, people find fault if I say anything, and many will just continue marching around the needle in circles for many more years to come, finding nothing!

  7. #22
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Arizona View Post
    I want to say that I'm glad those mines haven't been found by anyone, and then many here do not believe in the spanish franciscan / jesuit templar symbols in the superstition mountains. I don't join in on any of your discussions here or go to your rendezvous, people find fault if I say anything, and many will just continue marching around the needle in circles for many more years to come, finding nothing!
    John,

    Just because no one has stepped forward with solid proof of what they may have found in the Superstitions, does not mean that nothing has been found. If no gold is shown, (clear) pictures would be the next best evidence. If you can't produce such things, doubts will be the norm. A clear picture like this would be helpful:



    Good luck,

    Joe Ribaudo
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  8. #23
    us
    Jan 2013
    Arizona
    Spanish Death Rods
    501
    582 times
    I will post some pictures soon, and then let everyone decide. I'm not saying "if it's the place or where it's at".
    weekender and audigger53 like this.

  9. #24
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

    Jan 2006
    SoCal
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    Y'all know me, and how long I have been studying Jesuits. I highly doubt they had any mines in the Superstitions. They may have known the locations of some ledges (from Indians), but I believe anything Jesuit in the Superstition Mountains was hidden somewhere between 1764 (French Jesuit Suppression) and 1767 (Spanish Jesuit Suppression). None of the Jesuit "Tales" in the Superstitions mentions mines. All treasure cache caves and a hidden Silver Bell.

    One of the most famous names in Superstition Mountain History was Ed Piper. He made his base of operations at the base of Weaver's Needle. Piper told the story that as a child, the Chief of an Indian Tribe (not certain which) used to bounce him on his knee. When he was a little older, the Chief told him that if he ever wanted to find a treasure, he should go to the Superstition Mountains. There was a cave at the Needle which the Black Robes had hidden. Piper was not a Dutch Hunter. He hunted Jesuit Treasure until he died of Cancer in 1962.

    Mike
    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  10. #25

    Dec 2006
    3,261
    1579 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco View Post
    Just to show that this idea of a Jesuit connection to the Lost Dutchman is not a new idea, here is one from 1966

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?i...=7293%2C343314

    Glen Magill apparently believed that Waltz had found an old Jesuit mine. I wonder what Baker Loonie would have to say about this idea, as he was a member of that team?

    Please do continue;
    how many of the partners are still living if any
    cactusjumper and audigger53 like this.

  11. #26
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    7,384
    4117 times
    cw,

    Baker is in failing health and has needed oxygen for a number of years now. He has called me a number of times, but I have misplaced his number. I have been wanting to call him for quite awhile now. My own problems have made things a little difficult for me. If someone has his number, I would appreciate getting it in a private message. He may be one of the last remaining crew. Heath would know it and if he comes to the Rendezvous this year, it would be great if he could bring Baker with him.....health allowing.



    Good luck,

    Joe Ribaudo
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  12. #27
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / White's Goldmaster 4B / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    6,131
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_Arizona View Post
    I want to say that I'm glad those mines haven't been found by anyone, and then many here do not believe in the spanish franciscan / jesuit templar symbols in the superstition mountains. I don't join in on any of your discussions here or go to your rendezvous, people find fault if I say anything, and many will just continue marching around the needle in circles for many more years to come, finding nothing!

    Actually, two of the Peralta/Gonzalez Mines have been found. The "Pit Mine" in the Eastern Superstitions (which I won't go into here) was one, and when the Mammoth Mine was about played out, one of the buckets on their bucket line got caught on a boulder, and rolled it off of a Spanish "Rat Hole" Mine. In the next couple of years (as I understand it), the Mammoth recovered about $2-$3 million in gold (at 1951 gold prices). There is another Gonzalez Family Mine on the Gila River was also found. Between Chuck Kenworthy and Myself, the Gonzalez Mine in Anza-Borrego Desert was close to being found. I didn't hunt it with Kenworthy, but I got the entire box of his Anza Research (notes, letters, TOPO Maps, and pictures).

    Mike
    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  13. #28
    us
    Twang

    Jun 2017
    Ann Arbor
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    Inside, they found the skeleton of an Alien hugging the skeleton of a Sasquatch. Rumor has it they were two of the founding members of the Illuminati. All Jokes aside but IMO that mine is been long since tapped and capped.
    Rededite, plebes! Gero rem Imperialem!

  14. #29
    us
    Jan 2013
    Arizona
    Spanish Death Rods
    501
    582 times
    Quote Originally Posted by P.ALLEN View Post
    Inside, they found the skeleton of an Alien hugging the skeleton of a Sasquatch. Rumor has it they were two of the founding members of the Illuminati. All Jokes aside but IMO that mine is been long since tapped and capped.
    99% of you only know what you read in a book = trivia, the other 1% looked in the wrong place, you know it alls don't know half as much as what you think you do.
    Last edited by John_Arizona; Jul 17, 2017 at 11:33 AM.
    markmar likes this.

  15. #30
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    7,384
    4117 times
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Arizona View Post
    99% of you only know what you read in a book = trivia, the other 1% looked in the wrong place, you know it alls don't know half as much as what you think you do.
    John,

    It's good to know that you are not part of the above 100%.

    Show us the gold!



    Rich Hill gold:







    Anything along these lines will do.

    Good luck,

    Joe Ribaudo
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

 

 
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