The Apache of the Southwest of the States and northern Mexico...

[Interested Party in UK]

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These are the folk that will forever be associated with the Southwest and the Mexican border..., the third image is of an old man that used to send shivers down the spine of a large part of Mexico all by himself...!


IPUK

 

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[Real of Tayopa]

At any rate no decent people attack, rape & murder women & children... ---------- but the bronco Apache did Geronomo did.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

IPUK, that was because they were considered Americans, but not citizens.

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Including attacking, raping and murdering Apache women and children...

The Mexicans only received some of their 'results' in this fashion...

Is it any wonder Geronimo fought as much as he did? He never hated Americans as much and even talked fondly of the very first he met and told how for showing them watering holes - it was an American surveying party - they received food and gifts in return...

Even the great Cochise finally made peace with the Americans but never did so with the mucho hated Mexicans...

It is all extremely well documented...

IPUK

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK, that was because they were considered Americans, but not citizens.

Who?


IPUK

 

[Real of Tayopa]

i PUK , the same as the Taliban does to Europe today.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Since te Apache originated in the US they figured they should conclude the peace treaty,if any/

 

[Interested Party in UK]

i PUK , the same as the Taliban does to Europe today.

Don,

You are an extremely stubborn man...

For your information, the Taliban never actually "attacked Europe". Al-Qaeda attacked the States after attacking Africa and the Middle East. The Coalition, led by the US, invaded Afghanistan and overthrew the Taliban and killed and captured as many Al-Qaeda as possible.

The Apache never where fundamentalists regarding their religion, they never imposed it on others, they never planned suicide attacks on the other side of the world, they never raised funds by encouraging extremism and radicalisation, they never set-up schools to promote hate and bigotry, they never whipped girls and women for not "covering themselves", but I am sure you'll still say they are the "one and the same", hey Don..?


IPUK

 

[azdave35]

Don,

You are an extremely stubborn man...

For your information, the Taliban never actually "attacked Europe". Al-Qaeda attacked the States after attacking Africa and the Middle East. The Coalition, led by the US, invaded Afghanistan and overthrew the Taliban and killed and captured as many Al-Qaeda as possible.

The Apache never where fundamentalists regarding their religion, they never imposed it on others, they never planned suicide attacks on the other side of the world, they never raised funds by encouraging extremism and radicalisation, they never set-up schools to promote hate and bigotry, they never whipped girls and women for not "covering themselves", but I am sure you'll still say they are the "one and the same", hey Don..?


IPUK

seeing as how you are a foreigner and have no idea about what happened in this country and everything you know came from reading books....i will take don jose's word over yours...he lived it...he didn't read it

 

[Interested Party in UK]

seeing as how you are a foreigner and have no idea about what happened in this country and everything you know came from reading books....i will take don jose's word over yours...he lived it...he didn't read it

Don might be 'ancient', but we are referring to events that took place in the 19th century....

You really do have a real issue with books.....

I am a "foreigner" to you...., but you come across like someone who would class a person from the next village, town or even city as one due to your narrow viewpoint...

Rest assured, if people like you do not agree with me, then I must absolutely be doing something right - hurray!!


IPUK


PS. I don't want to get into an argument with you because if we go with stereotypes, you've probably got a cache of weapons with names such as "Bubba" and "Chuck" for your guns...


IPUK

 

[azdave35]

Don might be 'ancient', but we are referring to events that took place in the 19th century....

You really do have a real issue with books.....

I am a "foreigner" to you...., but you come across like someone who would class a person from the next village, town or even city as one due to your narrow viewpoint...

Rest assured, if people like you do not agree with me, then I must absolutely be doing something right - hurray!!


IPUK


PS. I don't want to get into an argument with you because if we go with stereotypes, you've probably got a cache of weapons with names such as "Bubba" and "Chuck" for your guns...


IPUK

doing something right?....guys like you come on this forum all the time..they have read every book and gone over every forum post on the subject and proclaim themselves an expert..and then they get worked up when nobody takes them serious..when you read a book all you are getting is what the author imposes on you..not the truth..guys like don jose and injunbro get their info from their own experiences and word of mouth handed down through family....when they talk ..i listen...you'd do much better to keep your mouth closed and your ears open...maybe you'd learn something too....another thing us ignorant hillbillies have that you don't..respect for their elders

 

[Interested Party in UK]

doing something right?....guys like you come on this forum all the time..they have read every book and gone over every forum post on the subject and proclaim themselves an expert..and then they get worked up when nobody takes them serious..when you read a book all you are getting is what the author imposes on you..not the truth..guys like don jose and injunbro get their info from their own experiences and word of mouth handed down through family....when they talk ..i listen...you'd do much better to keep your mouth closed and your ears open...maybe you'd learn something too....another thing us ignorant hillbillies have that you don't..respect for their elders

Love you too....

By the way, when you read one of those waste of space things called a "book", you can actually critically examine it, cross-reference it, do you own independent research, investigate archives and records, and guess what...?
You can actually arrive at something called "The Truth!"

You are still thinking what I've said instead of reading what I've said...!


IPUK

 

[azdave35]

Love you too....

By the way, when you read one of those waste of space things called a "book", you can actually critically examine it, cross-reference it, do you own independent research, investigate archives and records, and guess what...?
You can actually arrive at something called "The Truth!"

You are still thinking what I've said instead of reading what I've said...!


IPUK

i have known quite a few authors over the years and i also know a few apaches......from what i've figured out about authors i'll take the word of an apache any day...read all the books you want....i have better things to do....if you really want to learn the history of the apache....come out here and hang out with them for a while

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, relax, We will NEVER know who struck the first blow, nor is it important any more, While I cannot speak for the Apache,,I certainly can for the Yaqui. The gov't finally conquered the Yaqui, not by military force but by including schools in their last peace negotiations, in which they managed to show just how small the Yaqui nation was in comparison to the Mexican gov't.
I have tons of stories of the Yaqui, including some on Carlos Casteneda's " a yaqui medicine man " but that is for another site or thread.But as for the effect of a few wild Apache go, look to Europe which was reduced to terror / panic by just a few radicals. the same applies to the early raids of the Apache.

On the arrow poison, they first boiled a concotion of Yerba de Flecha (arrow herb) then added it to a deers liver that had been exposed to the elements until it turned greenish, then when it started to turn, they subjected it to the sting of scorpions rattlesnkes and Pichicuates, It was tested by cutting a slave then applying the poison to the lower part of the rivlet of blood, which then commenced to show a churning/ bubbly effect and started to go to the wound, it was always wiped of before it entered the wound , if it entered it was invariably fatal. The Yaqui tell of three Apache in a goup where one was wounded, and the others attempted to suck ou the poison, by morning all three were dead. Pretty potent stuff.

Lunch time anyone ? I'll supply the tea./ soffee.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Legend, the origional Yaqui were only 1 meter tall ---------------Back to the Apache who were also a short people, a restricted diet, coupled with periods of starvation was incapable of producing a normally tall person. so nature took over, and produced an Apache, who required less of everything. he would previously bury water in animal pouches for travel over waterless stretches of ground that the military didn't know about and had to carry water .The average soldier only cared about his creature comforts and demanded them with the accompaning logistic problems.

 

[Injunbro]

All: This is a fun thread... I wish I started it! I ain't heard of so many White guys going after each other since the old trickster Geronimo went to the other side! OK, lets don't get upset ok? We'll never all agree but we can all enjoy a good, friendly argument. Comparing Apaches to Taliban or ISIS or whatever the current bunch of muslums is nonsense, Apaches (Geronimo included) never raped, period (I'll go into the spiritual whys & wherefores if anyone actually wants to know). They never pushed their religion on anyone else either & prefer, then & now, to just be left alone. My family hasn't lived on a reservation in 3 generations (they didn't want Whitey kidnapping their kids & sending them to indoctrination schools) but I still have a few relatives that do. Geronimo & other Apaches did kill women & children just like Whitey & Mex's did (the US army was the worst). As a halfbreed I see things from both sides & am distrusted by both for that reason. I find the whole racial thing silly, Moses married an Ethiopian woman in Bible times so crossbreeding is nothing new - there are no pureblooded people anywhere.
Now w/ that disclaimer can I go back to good natured razzing you guys just for the amusement factor?
PS: Don Jose, I still won't admit to any Irish kin! (just yanking your chain my friend).

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Injunbro, i thought that the purpode of crossbreeding was to IMPROVE the species, So why the prejudice against the Oirish ? I can vouch for their betterment of 'any' species of man.

Incidentally, the Yaqui were a small people at first, about 1 meter, then they learned the value of better stock in their breeding and so would admit anyone with superior characteristics into the tribe. unlike the Apache who continued with their original stock resulting in something like Ijunbro

There used to be a giant bird of prey that would swoop down and carry off Yaqui children, Then one day a gigantic negro came to live with them,, He dedicated himself to hunting these birds, destroying their eggs and nests until the birds departed for the remote interior . He became their saint, One day Juan Bacasewa invited me to go to his ranch to see his bones in a special sacred cave. The negro's bones appeared those of a normal man. He would not let me take any pictures.

 

[Injunbro]

Don Jose, As far as continuing w/ original stock, why water down perfection? We are however a very generous bunch towards the lesser kinds & us Injuns feel adding our blood improves every other peoples intellect, physique, stamina, general good looks, suntan, sense of humor... & we're humble too! I have no prejudice against the Oirish... but do question the sanity of a people who live on a tiny, windblown, wet, Godforsaken island in the north sea that's controlled (more or less) by the English. Did you hear about the Irishman who became a lawyer so it could honestly be said: once an Irishman actually passed the bar?

 

[nobodie]

Unbelievable.

 

[Acecosies]

It is good to remember that Geromino was off on a raid when his family members were slain. Geromino once quipped that he could not bring himself to join the white eyes religion, for all the babies he killed. The Apache were starved at Bosque Redondo, San Carlos, and White Mountain. Of course San Carlos was rife with malaria and flies. An agent at San Carlos by the name of Tiffany was accused of altering the scales by which the beef allotment was weighed. The food supplies and tool to work the land were sold to miners and farmers, to the detriment of the Apache. The business of keeping the Apache wars going was indeed a thing of reality, especially by the Tucson ring, that benefited from army contracts.
I am an armchair avid reader of the Apache wars and have often asked myself if I would have joined the bronco Apache's ? I am old and crippled now, but in my younger days....