The Apache of the Southwest of the States and northern Mexico...

Crowfriend

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A note about Billy Fourr's ranch: Billy came to the ranch site in October 1979, after Cochise's death, the Chiricahua Reservation was closed & most of the Apaches were put on the concentration camp called San Carlos. Geronimo & others continued the scrap @ times but usually headed to the Sierra Madre ignoring the Fourr ranch. Ulzanna hit the area once in passing but was mostly taking horses in the San Pedro valley. Billy was a character who filed a 160 acre homestead but didn't actually prove it up for decades, threatened Congress w/ his shotgun when they formed the Nat'l Forest & refused to give the Dragoon Mtn.s to him (nearly went to the pen that time), ran woodcutters out of the mountains he illegally claimed (nearly got shot that time) & finally ended up w/ 1,280 acres of private land in the flats plus a lot of lease lands.

Thank you sir! Really great information, new to me.

A consequence of Ulzanna's legendary raid. Casper Albert was a Cochise County deputy. He owned the second largest mine in Galeyville along the east side of the Chiricahuas. Ironically, stupidly, he named his mine "The Chiricahua Chief". The smoke in the background is from the Horseshoe fire.

1885 a hellstorm of Apache vengeance against settlers in Cochise County. Every endeavor has a cost. Some paid more than others.

GRAVE FIRE 257 SMALL.jpg
 

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Crowfriend

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Injunbro wrote: ".... Uh, no they were ultra independent & were scattered through the rocks & across the grasslands,"

Freedom. Particularly individual freedom. You here about it the first day of school. You pledge to it. You are taught this country was founded on it. And yet... The idea becomes an abstract ideal. Something you long for but...

I read a biography of Geronimo, written for kids I think, in the third grade and gave a report on it. I've never stopped. Over the years I ask myself why? I conclude that it was the absolute freedom that permeates the collective psyche of the Indeh Nation. It was not an abstract ideal, it was a living breathing fundamental of life. I admire that and think about it when I am on my way to work.

I would, a hundred tomes over, rather go raid for horses down in old Mexico. Any takers?

I was invited to stay with friends at the San Carlos reservation, but did not go. Just doesn't seem like the path for me. I have heard many stories about life on the reservation as it is nowadays. My good friend Mr. H talked a lot about it. He told me that when he comes to the Dragoons or Chiricahuas for ceremony, it causes problems for him. Others think he is trying to gain more medicine than they have. So they try to cause bad things for him and his group. But he has protection, no problem. Everything has a cost. Medicine Man Wars I call it.

The point of this to me is the sacred right of individual freedom has it's own sort of downside. Everything has a cost.

I call him Mr. H because of the name thing. I had known him about a year when I asked him, "Mr. H was your great-grandfather a scout?" "Yes, He used to go around chasing Geronimo. Why do you ask?" "I have met him. He is in a book." I give him the book. A chapter is written about his relative. He tells me his G-Grand was a medicine man. "He had horse power." He tells me that his mother, when very young, saw one of his healings. A woman needed help. He took her to the Holy ground and placed four horses at each compass point some distance from her. Each horse was a different color. One by one he called each horse and they came up to the woman and returned to their place. That is all I was told about that.

My son died. Mr. H heard of this. He calls me, "CF in three days we are to meet at the stornghold, good bye." So I go to the stronghold. He and his group are there when I arrive. I had not seen them for some time. They had four stout logs they had gathered. No hellos, no greetings. He looks at me and: "CF take this log to the Holy ground." And he walks away. I manage to get the big log on my shoulders. Another man, seeing that Mr. H had left asks if I want help. Thanks but I guess I should do this alone. For one brief moment I thought of Christ carrying that huge cross through the streets of abusive crowds.

Later, by the fire, where all important matters are brought up, he says "We want to do a ceremony for you." I tell him I have not asked for it so tomorrow I will climb that mountain there, where "Sees Faces" told me I would find some thing. I go up there until I find a feather and sit down. I clear my mind and when I felt ready I ask for healing on this day with the help of my friends. Their hearts are good. I ask for this to be allowed.

I bring him the feather and he and his two sisters and another man start the ceremony with words and songs in their language, sometimes the words are in my language.
I open my heart as they have opened theirs and am blinded by tears.

The healing from others will not fail if you do not fail with a closed heart and scattered thoughts.

A few weeks later I call them. Come to the stronghold. I wish to conduct a memorial to help the passing of my son's spirit. We will do that he says.

On the morning of my son's memorial, I climbed up on some boulders with a friend of mine. I look up in the sky and four eagles flew across in a line from NW to SE. I have rarely seen eagles here in Cochise County and never more than two at a time, and never flying in a straight line.

We all meet, friends family and the people from San Carlos. The Indians in one group and the rest in another group. This embarrassed me. Injuns! Such scary people. Oh well. Such is life. We gather at the Holy Ground and most sit in chairs. I don't, I know I must sit on the ground for this. I choose a spot, a spot where I must sit, the only spot I must choose, a spot chosen for me. I look at the ground. Red ants everywhere. Great. I start to get up, but no. this is my place and if they bite, I will endure it with silence. Everything has a cost. When the ceremony begins I close my eyes. I can feel things better than I can see them. It went on for quite some time. I call on my son to be here. At the end of it I open my eyes and look at the ground. Where there were many red ants, there was not one to be found. Holy Ground. Sometimes life makes sense.

From the moment of his passing, as I was there for that, and for many months after, I asked for the passing and healing of his spirit. Since then, four times, I have been given some sweet signs that my prayers have been heard and it has come to pass.

My thanks to those that worked so hard on my son's behalf. It is more than my non Indian friends could, or knew, to do.
 

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Injunbro

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Markmar, "chishgahi" is a robin in western Apache. The Apache language is constantly evolving & is somewhat different in different places. I'm not fluent but can speak enough to get in trouble... or cause trouble which is more fun! My father was Dutch so I speak a bit of it also & some Mohawk & a dab od Spanish... Nicknames usually refer to some incident your friends will remember & are often embarrassing since Injuns (Apache's especially) love a good laugh @ their friends expense. You're expected to take it w/ good grace & return the favor. Since you won't tell an interesting & embarrassing story I'll have to go w/ what I see. You look Greek but there's no word for that in Apache... How about "Marius Ighaa`bijaiilah tulhili idlaani" (Marius, Furry chest coffee drinker). Those who know you would evolve it into 'furry coffee' or "Mari Greek coffee" or something even worse, again not a good place to be thin-skinned! Be careful what you ask for, you might get it! The good news is a new name come s w/ a new memorable incident.
 

Injunbro

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Crowfriend. Lets go do that Mexican raid! I have a black powder cannon we can use! We can stop by Tayopa & get Don Jose's kick some tailfeathers so his workers get moving & he'll be rich enough to get that book done!
OTOH maybe we should just stick around here & chat over coffee & relax like our Pardner from the land of manana...
All healing ceremonies are designed to bring you back in balance w/ nature. nothing heals a loss like the fellowship of family & friends who are even closer than family. I guess you know the significance of an eagle sighting & the number 4? (4 eagles). We often have an bald eagle sit on the power pole outside our house... we also have a great horned owl sit in the tree behind our house. :? (owls aren't supposed to be a good sign butt I've had them nearby for decades). Itsa` an eagle, Buu is owl in Apache, Nde` is the word for 'the people' in Apache.
 

Real of Tayopa

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geeze, what a hairy character. Do the Grick dancing girls go for that Actually my grick friend is pretty good looking. How do I delite them so HIT doesn't see them ??
 

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Crowfriend

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"I guess you know the significance of an eagle sighting & the number 4?"

From my point of view it seemed to be the four signs received later on. I've never asked anyone about it, so I don't know how the Nde might interpret that. ?
 

Crowfriend

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"Indians"

I've been admonished for using the term, but only by non-Indians. I've never heard any from the Nde nation use the term "Native American" of "first Americans", they say "Indians", sometimes say "Chokonen", sometimes say "Chihenne", and sometimes "Enemies" as a joke against the "Apache" label put upon them.
 

Real of Tayopa

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Keep yer cotton pickin hooks off of my mule ya bunch of skulking Godless,inhuman, savages, no dining on my purty mule.

The yaqui have different classes of medicine men, most believed that there is only one spot in a room where you can sit, but most do not believe in that anymore.

I believe that I have a aux name in Yaqui, but that isn't mentioned in polite socety. akin to picking your nose at a formal dinner, not complimentary,prob the same catagory as an Apache.

I have a free flying Dove in my computer room, what does that signify? other than it getting time to turn him / her loose --- eats like a horse. kinda cute actually.
 

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Injunbro

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Crowfriend, 4 is a sacred number, 4 directions, etc.. Eagles, Itsa` or "thunderbirds" are sort of like angels that go & speak to Yusen (God) on your behalf. To see 4 would be a sign of blessing, indicating your son is @ peace & you can be too. He'll be there to greet you someday if you keep your act together. Most of us consider the name "Indians" to be hilarious & totally safe. 'The white guys are so screwed up they think this is India!' :) :) :) "Chokonen" &"Chihenne", refers to sub tribes.

ROT/Don Jose, mules are much tastier than that nasty beef stuff you try so hard to smother the taste of w/ chili. That dove you think is "kinda cute actually" worries me... just how long you been alone in the desert? :o When mules & birds start looking "cute" you'd better go visit civilization for a while! :)
 

cactusjumper

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Markmar, "chishgahi" is a robin in western Apache. The Apache language is constantly evolving & is somewhat different in different places. I'm not fluent but can speak enough to get in trouble... or cause trouble which is more fun! My father was Dutch so I speak a bit of it also & some Mohawk & a dab od Spanish... Nicknames usually refer to some incident your friends will remember & are often embarrassing since Injuns (Apache's especially) love a good laugh @ their friends expense. You're expected to take it w/ good grace & return the favor. Since you won't tell an interesting & embarrassing story I'll have to go w/ what I see. You look Greek but there's no word for that in Apache... How about "Marius Ighaa`bijaiilah tulhili idlaani" (Marius, Furry chest coffee drinker). Those who know you would evolve it into 'furry coffee' or "Mari Greek coffee" or something even worse, again not a good place to be thin-skinned! Be careful what you ask for, you might get it! The good news is a new name come s w/ a new memorable incident.

injunbro,

I thought the Batman reference would make it obvious, but perhaps not.

Joe Ribaudo
 

Real of Tayopa

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hi injunbro, at 93 I don't think that I need that so much as :coffee2::coffee2:: course a cute Apache maiden would be a nice present. Names are basically what your intentions. are, for instance in your case I can call you an ole S.O.B of an mule eating Apache, and in it's way it is a compliment directed towards another, an insult..

You're my friend .(as long as you stay away from my cute mule ) laughing7::notworthy:
 

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Injunbro

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Don Jose, a cute Apache maiden would roast your "cute" mule, fry your dove & then kick your backside just for the entertainment factor :? ... & I'm pleased to be called a mule eater! (I'm pleased to be called your friend too but don't tell anybody or my new name will be something like "Friend of ROT"). :o How about we just share some
coffee2.gif
coffee2.gif
& keep telling stories to amuse the bellaganas (white eyes) here?
 

Crowfriend

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The ONLY time Mr. H allowed me to take photos while he was singing. I was still shy about it and shot from behind a tree.

SEPT 1 DRAGOONS 115 SMALL.jpg

Mr. H doing his best to explain things.
SEPT 1 DRAGOONS 090 SMALL.jpg

A target was set up about 3o ft away. I took the handmade bow and shoot. Miss. Shoot again. Miss. After the third miss I sit down. This little 4 year old boy picks it up. It's twice his height. He shoots. Bulls eye. Shoots again. Bulls eye. I go for a walk.
SEPT 1 DRAGOONS 105 SMALL.jpg
 

Crowfriend

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This is the famous photo by Tombstone photographer C S Fly. It has appeared in many books and articles. What never seems to be mentioned is that Geronimo , while everyone else is armed, holds a drum. What do you suppose would have happened if he had thumped it even one time?

78151 A as Smart Object-1 SMALL.jpg
 

Injunbro

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This is the famous photo by Tombstone photographer C S Fly. It has appeared in many books and articles. What never seems to be mentioned is that Geronimo , while everyone else is armed, holds a drum. What do you suppose would have happened if he had thumped it even one time?

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Some "interesting" things would have happened. Geronimo was a hataali before he was a warrior. He could call up more warriors hidden nearby, he could have called up a dust storm or turned into a coyote or...??? This story isn't generally told but when S.M. Barrett was writing Geronimo's life story he asked about coyote power & said he thought it was a myth. He glanced up & Geronimo was gone & a coyote was sitting there, blinked & he was back. I can't remember if it was Asa Daklugie or George Wratton who was translating that day & told that story years later. Barrett was never sure if it was a delusion or if something really strange actually happened. Geronimo told him he shouldn't ask about things he couldn't understand. This picture was posed obviously but note Geronimo had bandoliers full of .45-70 ammo. Also take a look@ his headgear, that ain't no Stetson.
 

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Real of Tayopa

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Spontaeous hypnotic hyper suggestion, under the proper conditions and stimulus it has happened to all of us at one time or another., and keep away from my cute pinta mule. Injunbro/
 

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OP
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Good to see that so many folks have taken to this thread for the purpose that it was intended for, namely sharing, asking, enquiring and reflecting on the Apache.

Some solid pictures, personal stories and details on such wonderful and historic locations and anecdotes from bygone local pivotal moments and events.

Injunbro is a revelation and, thankfully, is not one of those moody sorts who think that they are the story as oppose to the actual people or history we are discussing and debating.

Looking at the super pictures posted, it is pretty easy to try and transpose oneself into a distant time and imagine those who lived in those remarkable years.

To date, we've established that the Apache could whip the Yaqui whilst on their worst day and the opposition were at their best; the Apache it is fair to say had a pretty harsh experience and under the circumstances were fairly restrained in their responses; there was extreme unpleasantness on all sides; the Mexicans were bystanders and really no match for the Chiricahua and there is still backward, whitey ignoramus' in Arizona...perhaps they should be the first port of call for the raiding party!!

The Southwest, what a still wonderful part of the planet...


IPUK
 

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Don Jose, I'll take the coffee... ain't old enough to drink booze (this gray hair is just camouflage). What happened to our good friend IPUK who started this thread? Maybe being English he'd prefer tea? (us Injuns only use tea to color leather).

You peasants waste tea in such a 'sacrilegious' manner...?

:laughing7:

And here was lil 'ol me thinking that when the one and only great Cochise "Cut The Tent", he was holding a steaming cup of the true brew of the gods..., guess hilly-billy was right - books are useless....:dontknow:


IPUK
 

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Our friend Don seems to be fond of his 'Emerald Isle' heritage. That is good.

If we are discussing prejudice, racism, bigotry and hate, then in living memory, there used to be a sign displayed in lodging houses, hotels and accommodation blocks here in England that used to say:

"No dogs, No Blacks and No Irish"

Not on the same level of the crap given to the Apache, but having known folk who had to live in that time and face such attitudes, it is an amazing progression for humanity that we will, hopefully, never let such pathetic practices cloud our world views and will instantly challenge any such negativity and ensure that the world has moved on from such backward modes of thinking.

Of course the reality and practicality is very different.


IPUK
 

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