histroy of the cave /tunnel

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Bowman,

I see you also studied under one of the worlds great masters......Gregory Hines. One wonders how you found the time to develop the finest strain of cannabis known to mankind. Good answer though.

You really have this whole thing down to a fine science......of some kind.

You are wasting your time and talents, tossing your pearls of wisdom amongst this little band of mere mortals. None of us are worthy.

You realize, of course, that S. McDuck reached the Seven Cities of Cibola many years ago.
Not to worry, as second place is slightly better than third.

I am....LMAO!

Please don't stop.

Joe

 

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[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

i think if he had found the real seven cityies it would be well known ...i have no idea if these sites are related in anyway to the seven cityies ..


blue moon
n.

The third full moon in a three-month calendrical season that has four full moons.
The second of two full moons occurring in the same month.
Informal. A relatively long period of time: I haven't seen you in a blue moon.
[Sense 2, probably from the rare occurrence whereby the moon appears blue from high amounts of dust in the atmosphere, as from a volcanic eruption.]

as in good sailing weather , if there were a volcanic eruption this could create vast waves , thus bad sailing


tap is cool ...

 

[Old Dog]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

HONK !!

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

8 people shoting the documentary , 3 people in the expedition and two recording events is a lot more then i wanted going in the frist place ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

=cactusjumper
You realize, of course, that S. McDuck reached the Seven Cities of Cibola many years ago.
Not to worry, as second place is slightly better than third. I am....LMAO! Joe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The 7 ciudades de Cibola have been known since the 40's. They are located in the Valley (barranca ) de Conajaqui, Sinaloa, Mexico.

Dpon Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Jose,

Sinaloa, Mexico?

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Bob,

Have to say.....When you're right, you're right.

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

B,

Would you keep a dancing bear on a chain?

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Aaah-OOO-gah. (Old horn from an old fart. )

Trying to prove up a rather far-fetched theory is a bit reminiscient of Don Quixote of La Mancha, tilting at windmills...

For this to be a lost Templars' treasure, will require tracing the chain of evidence from the Old World to the Superstitions, quite a task in itself. If it were my discovery, (what friend Blindbowman found in 1979) - I would sooner get good photos of the site, the artifacts, the carvings, THEN try to find out just who put it there, rather than start out with a presumed source (as in Templars or Aztecs or Jesuits etc ad nauseum) and try to make all the evidence FIT with that theory. However doing it Blindbowman's way, starting out with a theory and trying to make it fit, might work out, with a great deal of work, research, and time and plenty of luck - but runs the risk of being wrong too. Blindbowman I don't have any problem with searching for a legend, as long as you are aware that it might well be just plain wrong, mistaken or worse fakery, and this will not "hurt" you in any way if it should prove to be that rather than a long-lost Templars treasure. In my opinion, a treasure hunt is rewarding in itself, even without finding any treasures.

Howdy to you too Randy! Sorry I have not been online much lately, hopefully in a few months I will have much more time to be aggravating the good folks here on T-net. I hope to read your article soon too - if these rains keep up I will sure have the time.

Good luck and good hunting to you friends, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

i agree , what we think of a event is most often more valueable to us then anything we can hold in our hands ...i guess its more not looking like a better person and being one ..

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

[=Oroblanco

Trying to prove up a rather far-fetched theory is a bit reminiscient of Don Quixote of La Mancha, tilting at windmills...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Watch it ya buscador! It's My mentor that you are downgrading. Also I tilt windmills in the form of conceited or over extended ego's.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. in deference to Beth, I will not include you in that catagory heheheh. Incidentally why are you so lax in posting lately my friend? I love your well done research and mentality, both are tops.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Oro,

"Trying to prove up a rather far-fetched theory is a bit reminiscient of Don Quixote of La Mancha, tilting at windmills..."

Bowman left the level of "Don Quixote" far behind him, around the time of his first post.

IMHO, he was once a person of high intelligence. What we see here, is the results of a lifestyle that has the nasty habit of destroying most of the important brain cells, and leaving a small fearful child, boasting and posing/flexing to impress others.

He is yet to tell us of his tour of duty as the captain of a nuclear submarine. That will, of course, explain his knowledge of the Nazi Treasure, also hidden in the seven caves, that the Third Reich had spirited out of Germany at the end of WWII.

The large underground river that flows just under the seven caves can only be reached by a submarine, which is how Bowman actually found this location. The plane story is simply a smokescreen to hide the obvious truth.

"Windmills"......indeed.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

beleive what you want ,,,lol when my pick hits a UFO i am out here !

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Bowman,

Sorry......I left out the UFOs.

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

B,

"Sometimes, when I get bored................."

Yes......I have heard that about Mr. B.

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

[=Oroblanco

Trying to prove up a rather far-fetched theory is a bit reminiscient of Don Quixote of La Mancha, tilting at windmills...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Real de Tayopa wrote:

Watch it ya buscador! It's My mentor that you are downgrading. Also I tilt windmills in the form of conceited or over extended ego's.

HOLA mi amigo! Apologies if anything I posted was perceived as downgrading one of my personal heroes, Don Quixote! I meant NO disrespect to the honorable Man of La Mancha.

I may have given the impression to our readers here that I personally am a sort of "Doubting Thomas" when in fact I am quite the opposite. I have even indulged in the art of tilting at the windmills of Historical Academia, though in quite a different matter from what we have been discussing here. I seek the truth, and most legends and myths are based on fact (truth) not fantasy, but in hunting down myths and legends we must sort out the false from the true. The true "Doubting Thomas" types believe there are no lost mines nor buried treasures, especially such a thing as the Lost Dutchman mine - when a little research would have shown them that such a person as Jacob Waltz did not only exist but shipped out over a quarter million dollars in gold ore, ore that was distinctively different from any other known source. Unfortunately for the modern treasure hunter, a vast amount of BS lore has been layered on top of a true story, adding on such exciting and romantic characters as Peraltas, Jesuits, even Aztecs and Nazi war criminals - all of which only lead to a lot of disappointment for a treasure hunter when they learn so much is false. A lot of the discouraged make the leap to include the original TRUE story of Waltz in with the BS that was added on by treasure-hunter-writers. (Yes I write lost treasure stories too, but I DO make the effort NOT to add on layers of BS to what can be proven, something that I wish Storm and Bicknell would have made the same efforts for.)

Real de Tayopa also wrote:

Incidentally why are you so lax in posting lately my friend?

Thank you for the kind words buddy! I have been 'absent' here due to having spent some time in Sinaloa, hunting for gold nuggets the size and color of oranges.... you may have heard of this place, El Naranjal?

JUST KIDDING! The truth is I took a job 6 days a week, to get money together to move. Real estate developers have bought up ALL of the land on all sides of our home here, and even drove into the yard to make an offer to buy us out, so we are moving - going to SD Black Hills, probably for a year, while we sell this place and hunt for a new hide-out. I am now no longer at the job, just busy packing up and sorting things out to "run away" and get away from the %*#&#! developers as soon as possible. The monsoon rains have caused us some headaches in packing and keep the 'road' almost impassible even to get out to pavement, so...hopefully we will be out of here soon. I did say "hopefully" as the weather has not been cooperative, at least so far.

If things go as planned (and hoped-for) by winter I will have the free time to give T-net more attention, and aggravate more of the fine folks here with my long-winded posts!


Joe wrote:

Bowman left the level of "Don Quixote" far behind him, around the time of his first post.

Greetings friend Joe, I have to agree - our friend Blindbowman now has a theory that is nearly monumental to try to prove up. I find his posts and theories interesting and entertaining (almost always anyway) even if I cannot agree with his conclusions. I think he could actually make quite a profit on his theory, even if it is utterly wrong or mistaken, if he simply were to publish his theory and adventures in a book. The public LOVE such theories and eat up books like this in the millions - look at how many copies of the Da Vinci Code sold, even though it is FICTION. If I were a betting man (and I am) I would bet a dollar to a donut that Blindbowman's theory will prove up wrong, however if he can prove it true, I hope to be among the first to congratulate him and will happily 'eat my words' in public, for all my doubts and misgivings about his theories. I would sure be glad to buy his book, should he decide to publish one, of his theory and adventures, even if he does not find a treasure at the end.

It is funny you should mention UFOs...ever read through some of the sighting reports, and take note of how many sightings were witnessed by prospectors and treasure hunters? You will find that they are a leading group of witnesses - and the same holds true in Bigfoot sightings. I think this is due to the fact that prospectors and treasure hunters spend a great deal of time "in the tall tules" as they say - far from the madding crowd and far from the beaten track. It is odd how many UFO sightings occur in known gold regions, which may or may not be related to the presence of quartz veins (at least by one theory of the phenomenon.). I will say this to any newbie - if you spend enough time out in the tall tules, far from cable TV, the internet and fast food, you WILL witness some things which are not currently explained by science. Whether you believe in them or not!

Even some who claim NOT to believe in such things as UFOs, in private will admit to having seen and heard some very strange things.

Sorry for yet another long-winded post, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.

your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Oro,

"when a little research would have shown them that such a person as Jacob Waltz did not only exist but shipped out over a quarter million dollars in gold ore...."

Sorry, but I believe you will not find one iota of evidence to back up that statement.

"ever read through some of the sighting reports, and take note of how many sightings were witnessed by prospectors and treasure hunters? You will find that they are a leading group of witnesses - and the same holds true in Bigfoot sightings. I think this is due to the fact that prospectors and treasure hunters spend a great deal of time "in the tall tules..."

It could also be due to the fact that a large number of them are missing a few dogs from the team. I know two Dutch Hunters, who claim to be experts on the Bigfoot topic. No doubt a few others will fall out of the trees......even as we speak.

As for the Bowman "book".......He will need a team of proofreaders working around the clock for a year to bring it to a publisher. Beyond that, it would be a fun read. Prior to beginning that book, I would recommend that he get a copy of "Templars in America" by, Tim Wallace-Murphy and Marilyn Hopkins. More grist for his mental mill.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Cactusjumper wrote:

Sorry, but I believe you will not find one iota of evidence to back up that statement.

Well there (for once) you are mistaken my friend, you too can see with your own eyes the old records of Waltz's gold shipments, as others have also done. The other documents have been reproduced in books and (I think) on the internet as well, and the gold matchbox has been photographed numerous times. Even the grave of Jacob Waltz can be found in Phoenix with a bit of effort and time. You have not been attracted to search for the Lost Dutchman mine and perhaps have dismissed the tale as so much bar-room hot air, I know you have semi-retired from treasure hunting but if you should care to do a little research, you can find all of the things I have mentioned. Here are a few examples:

Jacob Waltz citizenship papers filed in Los Angeles CA:
http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/jacob2a.htm

Jacob Waltz signature on petition (AZ)
http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/jacob3a.htm

The cover of Helen Corbin's book "Curse of the Dutchman's Gold" has a previously un-published photo of the gold ore found beneath Waltz's deathbed:
http://www.lost-dutchman.com/dutchman/entries/corone.html

Good luck and good hunting to you, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Roy,

I am wrong many, many times.....but I was only talking about this part of your statement:

"but shipped out over a quarter million dollars in gold ore...." I should have refined my quote a bit. The statement stands.....in relation to this part of your comment.

The rest of the stuff is old news to Dutch Hunters.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Greetings Joe,

I don't have a way to publish Wells Fargo records, but you don't have to take my word for it, contact Wells Fargo yourself and (eventually) you will be able to see the records for yourself. I don't know if you will be able to make photocopies for publication however, at least I could not obtain permission for such use. I have seen the records, personally, and am not the only person who has done so.

The gold ore photograph on the cover of Helen Corbin's book, as well as the gold matchbox are out there, which is at least a bit of proof. There is a pair of gold cufflinks too, but I have not been able to find any photos of them. Waltz also traded small amounts of gold in various places, and several witnesses attested to having seen the box of ore found beneath his deathbed.

Good luck and good hunting to you, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco