Cave of gold bars

[BlackLine]

On my trip last month i’d search for the jesuit treasure (walter perrines cave of gold bars) near weavers needle that some does believe it could be the LDM treasure. My area of interest was on the terrapin pass next to the trail. On my first trip last year I found the head and the hole (1-4 pic) and I thought in the mouth could be a marker. Gollum wrote in a different thread that the Jesuits used large boulders for markers. And it was the perspective that inspires me. Form the side it looks like a perfect head but from the front it looks like nothing. I began to do some research on this issue. i fit the map from the Jesuit cross on the map (5nd pic) and searched for markers. generally known is a marker at black top mesa. I tried to interpret it and used some sky view pics (6th and 7th pic). Now I had found my area of interest “ORO”. I get a closer look at that area and remind the sun. it seemed that the sun can give my some information. The correct time for example (8th pic). I thought ok – the sun have to be in the east. So this is only early in the morning so I searched for satellite pics on which the shadow falls to the west. I found two old google earth satellite pics which matches. One from 9/2010 and one from 6/2007. And what I found was awesome. On the 6/2007 pic (9th pic) are one thing that refers to the Jesuits. The 3c’s - competence, conscience, and compassion (https://www.scu.edu/illuminate/thought-leaders/thomas-plante/santa-claras-3-cs-mattera-lot.html) and there is IMO the heart from the priest stone to see. Then get a look closer on the newer 9/2010 pic (10th pic) a perfect circle with a X and on top the witch from the priest stone. Then look at the coordinations from the X (11th pic) – they doesn’t look normal or? Could all this be coincidence? I spend one day of my trip to this spot and have some vids and pic I will share until I have upload them. I can’t proof the shadow signs cause you have to sleep on black top. What I can say for sure – there is a head there is a hole and there is water. What does you believe? Every opinion is welcome.

 

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[BlackLine]

A small supplement

 

[BlackLine]

you know the picture from de garzia right!? i have mirrored it horizontally and then i got a perfect match from the view of black top mesa.



so much to explain, but i hope you can comprehend my thinkwise

 

[deducer]

You need to do your homework on the Walter Perrine's cave of gold.

When Walter's grandmother told him the story, she told about how she was lowered into the cave.

So if this story is true, you are looking for a vertical shaft, not a cave entrance.

And furthermore a shaft that was reportedly sealed by an entire tribe of Chiricahua Apache.

Walter himself spent a good portion of the 60's looking for the entrance, with 14 men, or so the story goes. They never found it.

You are also looking in an heavily trod area where all signs have long since been destroyed or altered. Good luck with that.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Good luck and good hunting for this treasure. You will be a rich person if you find the treasure. I am sure that if this story is public, that other treasure hunters had search for it, and maybe recovered the gold. Go for it.

 

[BlackLine]

You need to do your homework on the Walter Perrine's cave of gold.

When Walter's grandmother told him the story, she told about how she was lowered into the cave.

So if this story is true, you are looking for a vertical shaft, not a cave entrance.

And furthermore a shaft that was reportedly sealed by an entire tribe of Chiricahua Apache.

Walter himself spent a good portion of the 60's looking for the entrance, with 14 men, or so the story goes. They never found it.

You are also looking in an heavily trod area where all signs have long since been destroyed or altered. Good luck with that.

i didnt spoke about a cave entrance!? i showed the pics to give you an orientation and i wanted to show you that there was human activity. i think i had done my homework. perrine said youre looking for a face just a feet wide in the hole mountain side. he and his sons should exactly know how it looks like. he searched at black top mesa. maybe this interpretation could change his mind.

 

[deducer]

i didnt spoke about a cave entrance!? i showed the pics to give you an orientation and i wanted to show you that there was human activity. i think i had done my homework. perrine said youre looking for a face just a feet wide in the hole mountain side. he and his sons should exactly know how it looks like. he searched at black top mesa. maybe this interpretation could change his mind.

Did you watch the interviews that Hatt conducted with Perrine?

Perrine passed away a long time ago. I doubt his sons are interested.

Good luck with Black Top Mesa. Ed Piper blew up just about half of it looking for the same thing (a Jesuit treasure). Of course he didn't find anything.

 

[hooch]

Yup, see above post

 

[BlackLine]

Did you watch the interviews that Hatt conducted with Perrine?

Perrine passed away a long time ago. I doubt his sons are interested.

Good luck with Black Top Mesa. Ed Piper blew up just about half of it looking for the same thing (a Jesuit treasure). Of course he didn't find anything.

I'd watched it more than once. With all the respect, did you really read my first post? My area of interest is the terrapin pass.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Blackline, is there a possibility that all the terrain features (un-canny rock shapes, position of mountains, etc....) are possibly just random coincidental rock shapes ? And not "treasure markers" ?

Eg.: sort of like when a person lies outside on their back and stares up at the passing cloud shapes: They'll eventually see a bunny shape, a triangle, a smiley face, etc.... ?

 

[BlackLine]

Blackline, is there a possibility that all the terrain features (un-canny rock shapes, position of mountains, etc....) are possibly just random coincidental rock shapes ? And not "treasure markers" ?

Eg.: sort of like when a person lies outside on their back and stares up at the passing cloud shapes: They'll eventually see a bunny shape, a triangle, a smiley face, etc.... ?

sure it can be. but anywhere on bluff spring mountain should be also a marker that was showed in "lust for gold" and i shows IMO the same area (pic 1). i thought about the face perrine spoke about... the size matches... my question. is it all natural?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Re.: all the pix in your post #11 : You ought to come over to my yard in Monterey, CA. Because if the odd-un-canny shapes you show mean "treasure", then there's no doubt lots of treasure in my back yard !

I can no doubt draw lines through 3 or 4 various objects to create triangles, rectangles, etc.... And there's no doubt perfect circles (the stepping stones). And squiggly lines (the designs on our birdbath). And at a certain time of day, the sun might shine through the trees and appear to create a smiley face with the shadows they cast.

I think that if you look at random landscape ANYWHERE in the world, and focus long enough, you can find all sorts of odd-shapes. Some might even be un-canny. Others that were "designed" by man, could be nothing more than yester-year art and graffiti. After all, graffiti isn't anything new to human culture. Even cave men left art and lines and divot marks (art) on things. Doesn't mean "treasure".

 

[BlackLine]

Re.: all the pix in your post #11 : You ought to come over to my yard in Monterey, CA. Because if the odd-un-canny shapes you show mean "treasure", then there's no doubt lots of treasure in my back yard !

I can no doubt draw lines through 3 or 4 various objects to create triangles, rectangles, etc.... And there's no doubt perfect circles (the stepping stones). And squiggly lines (the designs on our birdbath). And at a certain time of day, the sun might shine through the trees and appear to create a smiley face with the shadows they cast.

I think that if you look at random landscape ANYWHERE in the world, and focus long enough, you can find all sorts of odd-shapes. Some might even be un-canny. Others that were "designed" by man, could be nothing more than yester-year art and graffiti. After all, graffiti isn't anything new to human culture. Even cave men left art and lines and divot marks (art) on things. Doesn't mean "treasure".

your right but markers points the way or? i need help to verify a new one that there might be. one like the other spanish trail markers... maybe its there maybe not. its just an opinion like everyone else have. i have a photograph of it but its not good enough to verify anything. it could be just a branch or it is really an unkown marker

 

[Tom_in_CA]

your right but markers points the way or? ...

Are you asking if treasures have "markers" ? I would say no, not necessarily. I have personally posse-hunted and found several caches . Like for next-of-kin who hired me to come find stuff they suspected had been stashed by a parent or grandparent. And in each case, no, .... there was nothing "un-canny" or "mysterious" in the places we got them with our detectors. I mean .... aside from perhaps "beneath a window @ side of house", or "in the crawl space under the house next to a certain plumbing pipe or in a certain corner". etc....

And I've hunted with buddies who found "wild" ones (not commissioned posse hunts). Of which I partnered on one of those finds (jars and jars of silver coins): And they were just random placement . Found by the good fortune of having dug hub-cab sized signals. Doh! And in each case, nothing "un-canny" that we could look around afterwards and say "aha! No *wonder* that odd shaped rock was over there!" etc....

Hence when persons went to bury something: No, they did not necessarily "riddle the landscape with clues" That sounds like the plot to raiders of the lost Ark movie, eh ? Oh sure, they would have mentally made note of "next to a certain tree" or "5 paces from the bird-bath", or whatever. But nothing that would be any different than any random landscape features, of which they never mean anything.

Hence I'd have to say all the rocks and squiggle marks on your rocks and mountains can be either random coincidence. Or if man-made (lines or circles on rocks) could simply be yester-year graffiti and art.

 

[BlackLine]

i'm not an expert for the spanish markers but somebody here can surely help us in which year they were explored and what the archaeology experts said about them.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There is plenty to be said about the Spanish movement for the era when the west and southwest was their frontier. I docent at one of the 21 missions and, yes, much can be learned on the "most likely places to look for goodies". No different than you'd research history on any culture or nationality or historical peoples.

But don't be quick to think that the spanish had all sorts of treasure to find up here in this part of their world (the southwest and west of the USA). And that even if they DID "bury a goodie", that there were necessarily "spanish markers" anyhow.

I have found over 100 Spanish reales, some of them at the missions themselves (d/t .... as I say .... I work at one so I've gotten permission). And I know of a lots of other reales found at the missions (or areas directly adjacent that *used* to be within the mission grounds, but perhaps now are private land butting up next to mission property). And know of all the archie dug coins in the mission museums at each of the 21 missions. And of ALL those hundreds of dug artifacts and coins that've been dug, guess how many of them were gold escudos ? Two. All the rest were silver. And I know of another escudo or two found in CA that were not @ missions themselves, but just in outlying ranchos (albeit of the same period).

So you see: There were VERY FEW gold coins coming up here. Even 8 reale denominations are extremely rare (we typically fine 1 reales and 1/2 reales.). And all the "adornments" (candle sticks, decorations, crosses , etc....) you would be surprised that this was NOT a "wealthy" place. We do find adornments (period rings, period crucifixes, etc.....) and they are invariably copper. ONCE in a blue moon, perhaps some silver doohickey. But no, these places were not "rolling in dough" like some hollywood movies might like to glamorize the old west. They were doing good to get trinkets, regular coins, etc.... to trade with the indians, adorn their churches, etc..... Supply provisions were so short and sparse at times (ships didn't come for over a year at one point) that soldiers went w/o pay and threatened to go awol.

Hence I do not know where this supposition comes from that "Spanish missions had reams of gold bars to bury". And that even when/if they did bury any goodies, that they would necessarily have made sure to use cryptogram clues, un-canny markers (turtle shapes, etc...).

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If you really want to find caches, just get yourself a 2-box detector (like a TM 808) and go to old ruins like ghost towns, cellar holes, etc.... The 2-box unit will not find objects smaller than a soda can. Hence the perfect discriminator for pesky individual coins, nails, tabs, foil, etc....

That's why more caches were found back in the 1960s than are being found today. Despite that those lousy BFOs and early TR's were very insensitive (you were doing good to get a coin to 3" deep), yet for Jar and Toaster sized objects, they worked just fine. So *ironically*, the "more sensitive" detectors have become, the less efficient we are now to finding caches. We spend all our time digging fumble-fingers coin type hunting, and probably (truth-be-told) are passing those "durned hubcaps" and "durned soda-cans", now that we have wonderful machines, eh ? Whereas the machines of the 1960s and earlier could ONLY find those larger objects. Doh !

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... what the archaeology experts said about them.

The "archaeology experts" would probably say what I'm saying. I rub shoulders with them, speak along side them, etc.... in my historical society docenting work. And trust me: There is nothing their knowledge would aid you for in the "treasure marker clues" theories. They would wonder what the heck you're talking about, and suggest to you as I'm doing: That you're reading too much into marks and rocks that mean nothing.

 

[BlackLine]

The "archaeology experts" would probably say what I'm saying. I rub shoulders with them, speak along side them, etc.... in my historical society docenting work. And trust me: There is nothing their knowledge would aid you for in the "treasure marker clues" theories. They would wonder what the heck you're talking about, and suggest to you as I'm doing: That you're reading too much into marks and rocks that mean nothing.

I can not rule that out

 

[nobodie]

Blackline,
Take a good hard look at your treasure marker clues, make sure they're real. I have mentioned this before, about an old treasure hunter that looked for the LDM and Jesuit treasure for many years. He got so angry when found out that other people made fake treasure signs, that he went back into the mountains and made his own fake clues. I'm not saying all clues are fake, I believe in markers but take a good look at them. I hope that you have something good.