THE THREAD OF TRUTHS and nutters

[Peerless67]

I noticed that a few people who have got an intrest in the LDM have problems sorting the facts from fiction, so i thought i would start a thread where FACTS can be posted. hopefully it wont become a battle ground for those who have opposing views because it will only contain factual evidence.

( OR ALTERNATIVELY ANYTHING YOU LIKE )

I will start at the begining stating that the Dutchman was a real person and records of his existance are availiable in the census's of the time. we also know that he was in fact a miner amongst other things.

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[Springfield]

A man named Jacob Waltz was an historical figure in Arizona Territory. The paper trail that remains verifies that fact. It's also strongly arguable that Waltz, or someone using that name, who lived in Phoenix in the late 19th Century, had access to significant quantities of high-grade gold ore. Where he got the ore and what his motives were for associating the ore to the Superstition Mountains is unverified.

[Seventytwo]

If we are going to state facts. Then let's state facts?
Their are no documents stating that Waltz and the Dutchman are the same person.
Someone named Waltz lived in Arizona. But then, so did thousands of other people.
Here are some real facts, and if I am wrong on these please fell free to tell me.
From the entrance of the mine you can see the Military trail.
There is an open pit mine located above the Dutchman mine.
There is a north facing cave across from the Dutchman mine.
The sun sets through a canyon, and will light the ore in the vain.
Here is one that I didn't even know about until I was questioned about it. Then I had to look it up, just to make sure. The mine must lay in the shadow of Weavers Needle. The East shadow seems to be the general belief.
The vain is Quartz and eighteen inches wide.
The vain will be located within red Rhyolite.
How do I know that this are facts, because they are well documented in the Dutchman lore.
But, that still dose not make them fact.
No.
What makes these facts, is that I have seen these with my own eyes while standing at the entrance to the Lost Dutchmans Gold mine.

Dan Adams

[Oroblanco]

Seventytwo wrote:

Their are no documents stating that Waltz and the Dutchman are the same person.
Someone named Waltz lived in Arizona. But then, so did thousands of other people.
Here are some real facts, and if I am wrong on these please fell free to tell me.

If you do a bit of research, you will find that there are in fact documents which state Jacob Waltz is the "Dutchman".

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

[Peerless67]

i see we're already going off topic wont be long now before we are talking about an ancient martian civilization who once populated the area around the LDM, Mork calling Orson come in Orson

[El Gato]

I noticed that a few people who have got an intrest in the LDM have problems sorting the facts from fiction, so i thought i would start a thread where FACTS can be posted. hopefully it wont become a battle ground for those who have opposing views because it will only contain factual evidence.
I will start at the begining stating that the Dutchman was a real person and records of his existance are availiable in the census's of the time. we also know that he was in fact a miner amongst other things.

Peerless,

I am afraid the known facts begin and end with your first post.
Julia, Rhiney and maybe Dick Holmes may have had some known facts but none of them ever wrote them down.

Beyond knowing that Jacob Waltz was real EVERYTHING becomes so & so said Waltz said so & so.




El Gato

[Peerless67]

What makes these facts, is that I have seen these with my own eyes while standing at the entrance to the Lost Dutchmans Gold mine.

Dan Adams

So I "assume" you either have pictures or gold ore as proof?

C'mon Randy others on here claim the same and they dont post pictures or show ore samples.

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

Scott states that you have submitted no application for a Treasure Trove Permit. When did that change, or is he not telling the truth?

Just curious.

Joe

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

"It's not the mine I seek, it's the truth."

That's a perfect way to put it. We are both on the same page here.

As for facts.......There are very few that actually relate to the mine itself. Hardly enough to create a long and varied thread. Most of our "facts" are what somebody says somebody said or saw.

One of those "facts", is Jim Barks statement that he found Julia and Rhiney camped at the bottom of Hog Canyon. He also states that they drove their buggy farther up that canyon than he thought was possible.

Despite your doubts, it would seem that they were trying to follow Waltz's true instructions. By a strange coincidence, it appears that they were following the instructions
in the P.C. Bicknell article. Those two things seem to give support to one story and one story only. There are probably a million what ifs you can come up with, but the above "facts" seem pretty compelling.

Add in the fact, that everyone agrees that Hog Canyon was once a monumented "Spanish?"
trail, and you might start getting a little suspicious.

Just the ramblings of an old "has been", but that's probably as good as I can do anymore, as I will no longer be "hiking that mountain range" again.

Take care,

Joe

[Bassfish]

Fact: I am NOT the Lost Dutchman.........I am a CONFUSED German.

[Peerless67]

I thought all germans were confused

peerless67 munchengladbach 1967- 1968

[Oroblanco]

I got tin hats for sale, $50 each

Do you have a financing plan, with a downpayment and monthly installments? Mine has absorbed way too much orgone radiation and the aether now flows right through it!

Now about those Martians, pesky little green critters aren't they!

Oroblanco

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hallo Oro: recoat it with Mesquite gum. ( can also use it to get rid of yer buggies, lice etc in yer hair, + it leaves the hair glossy, smooth and jet black). Side benefit, it hides the shiny surface of the hat so that any unrelenting Indians still hiding out will not notice you too easily.

Don Jose de La Mancha

[Seventytwo]

Randy this is a 18 to 24 inch quartz's vain in red rhyolite. when I took this picture, behind me and over my right shoulder is the mouth to a very large north facing cave. Over my left shoulder and a half mile away is the old military trail.
I am facing due east with the sun at my back, it is setting into a narrow canyon lighting the ore in the vain.
behind me and higher up the side of the canyon wall is a drift mine, it is located inside of a wash, in other words in a pit.
Now, you would have to be very narrow minded to think that this is not the Lost Dutchman Gold mine.
Especially since I was standing due east of Weavers Needle when I took this picture. Or should I say soon to be in it shadow.
Is their any other facts, or truths, that you would like to know about the lost Dutchman Gold mine.
Or would you like to talk about lies?

Dan Adams

[Oroblanco]

Greetings Dan,

Do you have any photos up a bit closer? My old eyes are not what they used to be, can't really tell if that is quartz or not from the photo.



Something like these, which are unmistakable enough even for someone with such poor eyesight? Thank you in advance,

Oroblanco

[Peerless67]

those samples could come from any where , and those pictures do not come from the lost area unless you count all of AZ....where is this assy report and where is the clam at ... this total BS you stated only facts and truth yet you have no proff what so ever of his clams ... this post is a joke if you set two diffrent standerds ...

wow seventytwo you got bowman spitting fire

c'mon bowman you can hardly call a vein a sample, and he never claimed to have had an assay done. bottom line is he made a claim and was questioned by randy, he then posted a picture of the vein.
I agree it may not be the LDM but as has already been stated by randy it is better than 99% of the other claims made here.
you even have the cheek to ask for proof and yet you wont provide any of your own? and dont you think you are being ridiculous asking him where the claim is at? would you tell where yours is? and as i recall he gave a pretty good discription of where it was. you on the other hand have only posted a picture of your camera shy friend standing in front of a cactus in Az, I am afraid bowman that the burden of proof has now been shifted as seventytwo has posted something tangeable

[cactusjumper]

B,

Here are some pictures I took this weekend. Not the LDM, but interesting.

Joe

[Peerless67]

thanks for sharing cactus jumper nice pics

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"those samples could come from any where , and those pictures do not come from the lost area unless you count all of AZ....where is this assy report and where is the clam at ... this total BS you stated only facts and truth yet you have no proff what so ever of his clams ... this post is a joke if you set two diffrent standerds ..."

Unbelievable cheek.......even for you.

Joe

[Peerless67]

you got me that time . here is a better one !

Am I missing something here?