H/P stone map

[Azquester]

bill..the reason nobody has gone up there is because there isn't much to see...if there was ever anything up there worth getting its all gone now

I don't believe it's all gone. I think it was covered in a hurry because it became to well known. The ones that took it were attempting to avoid detection. I don't believe the vein was worked out as it would've taken a much larger operation for that to happen. I think a few got rich and covered it before the IRS came down on them. It's to bad.

 

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[azdave35]

I don't believe it's all gone. I think it was covered in a hurry because it became to well known. The ones that took it were attempting to avoid detection. I don't believe the vein was worked out as it would've taken a much larger operation for that to happen. I think a few got rich and covered it before the IRS came down on them. It's to bad.

bill..the mine was open up until a few years ago,.i have friends that have been in it,,the only reason it is covered now it because the Forrest service covered it up

 

[azdave35]

bill..the mine was open up until a few years ago,.i have friends that have been in it,,the only reason it is covered now it because the Forrest service covered it up

also quite a few people have detected the dump and tails and nothing was found

 

[393stroker]

bill..the mine was open up until a few years ago,.i have friends that have been in it,,the only reason it is covered now it because the Forrest service covered it up

If so, why didn't they throw all the trash in the hole before filling it in? They must of had some explosives.

 

[azdave35]

If so, why didn't they throw all the trash in the hole before filling it in? They must of had some explosives.

you'll have to ask them...

 

[Craigwac]

I'm not 100% sure the maps are fake, but Tumlinson found them and he was an avid rock carver. His carvings look similar to those on the Peralta stone maps. Half his family believes he carved them himself. Experts have said that the maps look to be carved with modern rotary tools. The heart symbol was not known, or very rare in Mexico 150+ years ago.

All of those things lead me to believe they are fake.

The maps are the type of "post road map" that was used by Mexicans at the time. The smaller symbols on the actual map part (cross inside brackets, circle with a dot in the center, Omega sign, etc.) do seem to be symbols used on Spanish/Mexican mine maps, and are used correctly and tell a story of how to get to the mine (at least if Charles Kenworthy is to be believed). Michael Bilbrey found two stone crosses which match the stone maps well (though these are possibly forgeries as well). Half of Tumlinson's family believed he thought they were real maps which would lead to treasure. There isn't much evidence that he ever tried to sell the maps, and he kept them secret. The motive for making fake maps would likely be to scam someone with them, and it doesn't appear that he tried that.

These things lead me to think the stone maps may be real. So you can see why I'm undecided.

The other possibility is that Tumlinson found the stone maps and carved more onto them. It does appear that some markings were done at a different time than others, judging by the wear and the depth and qualities of the carvings.

Or he may have had some other maps and consolidated them into one map which he carved on the stones, making them "real" but also created by Tumlinson.

But my overall impression of them is that they are probably not genuine and there are other maps which have fewer credibility issues. So I choose to focus on those instead.

 

[cactusjumper]

I'm not 100% sure the maps are fake, but Tumlinson found them and he was an avid rock carver. His carvings look similar to those on the Peralta stone maps. Half his family believes he carved them himself. Experts have said that the maps look to be carved with modern rotary tools. The heart symbol was not known, or very rare in Mexico 150+ years ago.

All of those things lead me to believe they are fake.

The maps are the type of "post road map" that was used by Mexicans at the time. The smaller symbols on the actual map part (cross inside brackets, circle with a dot in the center, Omega sign, etc.) do seem to be symbols used on Spanish/Mexican mine maps, and are used correctly and tell a story of how to get to the mine (at least if Charles Kenworthy is to be believed). Michael Bilbrey found two stone crosses which match the stone maps well (though these are possibly forgeries as well). Half of Tumlinson's family believed he thought they were real maps which would lead to treasure. There isn't much evidence that he ever tried to sell the maps, and he kept them secret. The motive for making fake maps would likely be to scam someone with them, and it doesn't appear that he tried that.

These things lead me to think the stone maps may be real. So you can see why I'm undecided.

The other possibility is that Tumlinson found the stone maps and carved more onto them. It does appear that some markings were done at a different time than others, judging by the wear and the depth and qualities of the carvings.

Or he may have had some other maps and consolidated them into one map which he carved on the stones, making them "real" but also created by Tumlinson.

But my overall impression of them is that they are probably not genuine and there are other maps which have fewer credibility issues. So I choose to focus on those instead.

Craig,

I have been told, by people who were around at the time, that both Tumlinson and Bilbrey tried to peddle the artifacts or use them to entice others to invest money for their searches. considering their history, that seems probable.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Craigwac

The hearts were used by the Spaniards from over 400 years as treasures symbology .
I believe also , how Travis was a honest man , and never would carved the stone maps to fool people . Even if the stone maps at the SMM , were not carved by Travis , and he just found them like he said .
Like I wrote many times , the stone maps at the SMM are real maps to rich mines , and in cooperation with the Bilbrey's crosses and other maps , they lead to a treasure . The treasure of the Santa Fe church .

 

[Doc4261]

Doc

Do you believe the Horse image from the stone tablet is the same with the horse landmark from Ted Cox and Apache Jack clues ?
In the stone Horse map are three dot in circle symbols . What made you believe how the dot in circle symbol behind the horse's ear is the LDM ?
I would like to read your explanation .

when looking at weavers needle from the circles on the H/p map. that is the only one with the correct view for the scribble that walt supposably made. Also cant get to it from above or below , u have to enter from the side. its the only way.

 

[markmar]

when looking at weavers needle from the circles on the H/p map. that is the only one with the correct view for the scribble that walt supposably made. Also cant get to it from above or below , u have to enter from the side. its the only way.

So , you consider how the Waltz drawing is an image from " his " mine . But what about the clue which says how " You have to climb up a steep ravine ( or about 40 ft ) above the mine , to see Weaver's Needle to the south " ?
This clue seems to me how from the LDM you can't see WN .
Also , you speak like you know where the Horse from the H/P stone tablet is located . Can you post a pic ( without the surrounding landmarks ) of the Horse , to make your theory more real ?

 

[sgtfda]

Craigwac

The hearts were used by the Spaniards from over 400 years as treasures symbology .
I believe also , how Travis was a honest man , and never would carved the stone maps to fool people . Even if the stone maps at the SMM , were not carved by Travis , and he just found them like he said .
Like I wrote many times , the stone maps at the SMM are real maps to rich mines , and in cooperation with the Bilbrey's crosses and other maps , they lead to a treasure . The treasure of the Santa Fe church .

I doubt Travis was sent to prison for being a honest man

 

[somehiker]

I doubt Travis was sent to prison for being a honest man

Yes, and for more than one offense, according to documentation provided by Lynda.
Though it was claimed that he had seen the error of his ways, it has also been said that he accumulated a large portfolio of investments, including expensive cars, properties and bank accounts with cash deposits. RG has also informed us that Travis made a number of trips across the border into Mexico, with the inference being to sell such artifacts as he had recovered from a treasure trove......ie. the reason for his otherwise unexplained wealth. All well documented according to RG.
Doesn't sound like he went "straight" at all.......does it?

 

[deducer]

Irate objection from Lynda coming in 3... 2... 1...

 

[Doc4261]

So , you consider how the Waltz drawing is an image from " his " mine . But what about the clue which says how " You have to climb up a steep ravine ( or about 40 ft ) above the mine , to see Weaver's Needle to the south " ?
This clue seems to me how from the LDM you can't see WN .
Also , you speak like you know where the Horse from the H/P stone tablet is located . Can you post a pic ( without the surrounding landmarks ) of the Horse , to make your theory more real ?

Cant post pic of horse it would give it away . Its brilliant on who made the maps . will be going for a scouting trip this yr to find where to make camp , going for a week next yr to prove it all up. probably wont go after the ldm . the one by the heart on the witch map is the easiest.

 

[Doc4261]

So , you consider how the Waltz drawing is an image from " his " mine . But what about the clue which says how " You have to climb up a steep ravine ( or about 40 ft ) above the mine , to see Weaver's Needle to the south " ?
This clue seems to me how from the LDM you can't see WN .
Also , you speak like you know where the Horse from the H/P stone tablet is located . Can you post a pic ( without the surrounding landmarks ) of the Horse , to make your theory more real ?

But yes you are correct there is a ridge to the south that you would have to climb to get the view on the scribble. Its up high . and some of the old dutch hunters were close. very close. no one went that far to get to it. I take my hat off for those that spent years to just come up short. only reason I figured it out was the 5 above the "rio" but the line is a ridge, and the map is perfect. all the mines are marked with a white marker "shadow" stone. those I can show if you pm me your email.

 

[markmar]

I doubt Travis was sent to prison for being a honest man

Sarge

People change their character over the years .

 

[Cubfan64]

Sarge

People change their character over the years .

I would argue that changing moral character and personality over time doesn't typically happen. I'm sure it can happen - ANYTHING can happen, but overall a person's character and personality are well established by the age of 30 and probably even sooner than that.

 

[sdcfia]

I would argue that changing moral character and personality over time doesn't typically happen. I'm sure it can happen - ANYTHING can happen, but overall a person's character and personality are well established by the age of 30 and probably even sooner than that.

Sociopaths are typically not identified/diagnosed prior to the age of 18, but it's clear that many display the characteristics well before that. Are sociopaths conditioned by life experiences to act in that manner, or are they born that way? Both, IMO.

 

[markmar]

Cant post pic of horse it would give it away . Its brilliant on who made the maps . will be going for a scouting trip this yr to find where to make camp , going for a week next yr to prove it all up. probably wont go after the ldm . the one by the heart on the witch map is the easiest.

Doc

From what I understood , you found a " horse " shape on the ground using GE . IMO , the real Horse that is depicted on the stone map , is a landmark , a cliff face which you can recognize only from a specific place , a place which very few would go there . From another place than that , the Horse is " invisible " .

 

[Doc4261]

Doc

From what I understood , you found a " horse " shape on the ground using GE . IMO , the real Horse that is depicted on the stone map , is a landmark , a cliff face which you can recognize only from a specific place , a place which very few would go there . From another place than that , the Horse is " invisible " .

heart with arrow sketched on the witch map. h/p is all of the same place , mirror image hence front and back on same stone. View attachment 1537313