A question that makes me go hmmmm?

[Ammoman]

Its raining outside so here I sit pondering the meaning of life and the universe of treasure.

Why is the lost Dutchman’s mine called “The Lost Dutchman’s mine”? Did the Dutchman get lost or did he loose the mine? And if he lost the mine, how did it fall out of his pocket?

Another question. If the mine is ever found, will it still be called the lost Dutchman’s mine or will it be The lost and found Dutchman’s mine?

Just wondering

 

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[nobodie]

It shouldn't even be called DUTCHMAN.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Wow! Cindy asked me the same questions!!!

 

[Ammoman]

Wow! Cindy asked me the same questions!!!

LOL I used a long range locator to read her mind. They work great!

 

[audigger53]

Its raining outside so here I sit pondering the meaning of life and the universe of treasure.

Why is the lost Dutchman’s mine called “The Lost Dutchman’s mine”? Did the Dutchman get lost or did he loose the mine? And if he lost the mine, how did it fall out of his pocket?

Another question. If the mine is ever found, will it still be called the lost Dutchman’s mine or will it be The lost and found Dutchman’s mine?

Just wondering

Lost because no one has found it since he died. The questions I have are why didn't he have more money when he lived and when he died if it was as rich as he claimed?

 

[Ammoman]

Lost because no one has found it since he died. The questions I have are why didn't he have more money when he lived and when he died if it was as rich as he claimed?

I remember reading the story when i was a kid. I came to the conclusion at that time that he was someone looking to eventually sell worthless claims but wound up dead before that happened thus leaving a salted unverifiable story.

 

[cactusjumper]

Lost because no one has found it since he died. The questions I have are why didn't he have more money when he lived and when he died if it was as rich as he claimed?

AU,

History is replete with people who seemed/lived poor, dying while they possessed fortunes. One such person was a Dutch Hunter. You might want to research that story.....James Kidd.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo...idd&sortby=100&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title12

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Its raining outside so here I sit pondering the meaning of life and the universe of treasure.

Why is the lost Dutchman’s mine called “The Lost Dutchman’s mine”? Did the Dutchman get lost or did he loose the mine? And if he lost the mine, how did it fall out of his pocket?

Another question. If the mine is ever found, will it still be called the lost Dutchman’s mine or will it be The lost and found Dutchman’s mine?

Just wondering

I see that others have already answered some of your questions there, but I would point out that it is not necessary to call it the Lost Dutchman's mine any more, for we have more than 200 different people that have all found the LDM in over 200 different places, including a good half dozen right here on T-net! In fact no other lost mine has been found so many times! So really it probably should be called the Found Dutchman's Mine!

 

[Dirt1955]

AU,

History is replete with people who seemed/lived poor, dying while they possessed fortunes. One such person was a Dutch Hunter. You might want to research that story.....James Kidd.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo...idd&sortby=100&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title12

Good luck,

Joe

Thanks Joe. I need a good read. I had forgotten about the James Kidd story.

 

[audigger53]

AU,

History is replete with people who seemed/lived poor, dying while they possessed fortunes. One such person was a Dutch Hunter. You might want to research that story.....James Kidd.

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Bo...idd&sortby=100&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title12

Good luck,

Joe

OK, then where did the $18,000 in gold the "Dutchman" turned in to Wells Fargo at Tucson go? The money that is. With out the $18,000 story, the Dutchman's "mine" would just be a tale, no basis for the story.

 

[cactusjumper]

OK, then where did the $18,000 in gold the "Dutchman" turned in to Wells Fargo at Tucson go? The money that is. With out the $18,000 story, the Dutchman's "mine" would just be a tale, no basis for the story.

AU,

Can you tell us the source for the above statement?

Many thanks!

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

AU,

Can you tell us the source for the above statement?

Many thanks!

Joe

Joe - I think you already know the answer to that question

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

Hope all is well back there.

Actually, I prefer to keep it that way. I only ask so that others, who don't know, can.

Getting harder and harder to keep things real these days.

Take care,

Joe

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Cubfan64 said:

Joe - I think you already know the answer to that question



I was waiting and watching to see what would happen. Oh well.

 

[audigger53]

Don't remember the treasure site now , might have been the old TNet site. The story went that a "Dutchman" rode in on the Phoenix to Tucson stage and cashed in $18,000 in gold to the Wells Fargo agent. He left on the East bound stage. The Assayer and the Wells Fargo agent went to the local saloon and told the news to the ones there. That started a gold rush to Phoenix to find the "Dutchman" and his mine. That's when the LDM started. Of Course the only "Dutchman" that was a prospector there was Waltz. That is what I read on that site and what tallied with what I knew about the AZ State Hiway Marker. "Here is where the Dutchman would leave the stage to go to his mine. Someone even stated that there was still samples of the gold stored in the Denver mint. I don't know about that part, never saw it. Could be fact or conjecture. I do know my brother had more details that he told me, but he passed away and never told me his source.
That was the tale of the Dutchman meeting the Phoenix bound stage and looked ill. He needed help getting his trunk into the back boot of the stage. If he carried/drag it for 7 miles from the outside of the Supes to the stage road, now RT 60, I can believe that he was exausted if it weighed 90 LBs Troy. $20 an ounce back then, $18,000 would have been 90 Lbs Troy if 24 Carat. More if 23-20 carat pure. One guy on the site even stated that a German, Waltz/Waltzer had been traced back to Germany.

 

[Loke]

Are you sure you are not mixing it up with Wagoners Ledge ??

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Are you sure you are not mixing it up with Wagoners Ledge ??

No, Loke, he’s not…even though we all know exactly what you mean.


He’s talking about a legend that is far older than what is current today. If anyone mixed up Waggoners Ledge with the LDM, it was the state…or whoever it was that put up that old road marker, and what people infer in their own minds when they hear about this. It was there, and Audigger is pretty accurate as to what it said.


Now I have heard the exact same story of the “Dutchman” selling gold in Tucson, and being sick on the stage. As far as I know, the person I heard it from, believed it was true. Perhaps there was an old magazine article or something…rumors get started somewhere, then people believe what they read. For example, my grandfather absolutely knew where the Dutchman was buried over in the Superstitions. He was absolutely convinced of this. He had been there to the grave. He would have sworn on a bible.


After I learned some things about the history of the LDM, I figured he must have been mistaken. I’ve since seen that gravestone he was talking about. God forbid, he was right. It was really there. But it wasn’t real. Who started that rumor? The DONS CLUB. They did it when they made the marker that said “Here lies Old Snowbeard The Dutchman”.


What is the truth? I think I know, but would not bet on it. I’ve never looked into the Tucson gold story, so there’s no way I myself can say for sure if it’s true or false. But it’s not the first time I’ve heard that story, and it’s an old one. I was hoping Audigger would elaborate on it, but didn’t want to press him on it. It’s his story, and I’m glad he shared it. Best regards, Jim

 

[azdave35]

No, Loke, he’s not…even though we all know exactly what you mean.


He’s talking about a legend that is far older than what is current today. If anyone mixed up Waggoners Ledge with the LDM, it was the state…or whoever it was that put up that old road marker, and what people infer in their own minds when they hear about this. It was there, and Audigger is pretty accurate as to what it said.


Now I have heard the exact same story of the “Dutchman” selling gold in Tucson, and being sick on the stage. As far as I know, the person I heard it from, believed it was true. Perhaps there was an old magazine article or something…rumors get started somewhere, then people believe what they read. For example, my grandfather absolutely knew where the Dutchman was buried over in the Superstitions. He was absolutely convinced of this. He had been there to the grave. He would have sworn on a bible.


After I learned some things about the history of the LDM, I figured he must have been mistaken. I’ve since seen that gravestone he was talking about. God forbid, he was right. It was really there. But it wasn’t real. Who started that rumor? The DONS CLUB. They did it when they made the marker that said “Here lies Old Snowbeard The Dutchman”.


What is the truth? I think I know, but would not bet on it. I’ve never looked into the Tucson gold story, so there’s no way I myself can say for sure if it’s true or false. But it’s not the first time I’ve heard that story, and it’s an old one. I was hoping Audigger would elaborate on it, but didn’t want to press him on it. It’s his story, and I’m glad he shared it. Best regards, Jim

i dont think there is any documentation or proof that waltz ever sold any large amounts of gold...i dont think he ever hauled a big load out of the mountains...he probably took what he needed to get him through

 

[PotBelly Jim]

i dont think there is any documentation or proof that waltz ever sold any large amounts of gold...i dont think he ever hauled a big load out of the mountains...he probably took what he needed to get him through

Dave, I would have to agree there, at least I haven't seen any documentation either. Waltz, no. Wagonner, or whoever he was, who knows. Both were called "The Dutchman" locally and those stories then got all jumbled together depending on who was repeating them. Today, we have 2 separate stories in Wagonner's Lost Ledge and The Lost Dutchman's Mine. But there was a time when I thought they were the same thing based on what I had heard. I was wrong of course.

 

[Swaveab]

I can say what it would be called if I found it, MINE.