Charlie Miller...

[Cubfan64]

I only have about 20 pages of my dad stuff scanned out of a lot of boxes Full I removed from his file cabinets after he passed. Not even counting all the photos!
I kind of gave up as it looks like a long time to process.

Don't give up - take your time and look at it as a long term labor of love

 

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[PotBelly Jim]

I'm 59 yrs old now, I was less than 12 yrs old at that time. I don't remember what he looked like. His house in Phoenix was just a few miles from us.
we lived at 68th street & Mcdowell.

Carrol,

If I had to make a wild guess, I would say you lived about 3-4 miles from him. Maybe more like an educated guess...I think you just corroborated something Joe posted years ago...on the other channel...Regarding your Dad's stuff, maybe someday you will get the urge to dive in...who knows what the future holds...

Lynda,

What I don't get is how he could have been over 70 while he was out with Travis in 1958? Anyway, found this last nite, don't know if it's our guy, but Travis did say he had a bad leg:

View attachment 1613386

 

[Old]

I found a Charlie Miller that did time in Huntsville, TX that used an alias of Lloyd Doyle. I don't think this is our Charlie but it caught my interest with the ties to Huntsville.

This guy apparently died in 1966 and appeared to have been incarcerated most of the time. Don't think its him but it had similarities.

Do any of you know what alias(s) Miller used?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I found a Charlie Miller that did time in Huntsville, TX that used an alias of Lloyd Doyle. I don't think this is our Charlie but it caught my interest with the ties to Huntsville.

This guy apparently died in 1966 and appeared to have been incarcerated most of the time. Don't think its him but it had similarities.

Do any of you know what alias(s) Miller used?

Lyn, I think "Charlie Miller" was the alias...at least that's how I read it...I got Charlie Miller on the brain, so I may be wrong...

Been trying to track this gent down...I think what we have here is "The REAL Charlie Miller", who Travis, Carrol and others knew...then we have an "Alias Charlie Miller" who lived in the trailer court near Al Reser...I don't think this gent was a "Charlie Miller Jr.", as "Charlie Miller" wouldn't be much of an alias for him

He may have been a son of the "Real Charlie Miller", or he could have just been someone who knew the real one, perhaps even inherited some knowledge and maybe some tracings, but much younger, as he appears to have outlived even Al Reser...it may be even that Al was in on the joke as to what this person's real name was...I doubt he was running from the law, but who knows...to me it sounds like something else...

 

[Old]

Morning Jim,

What you gleaned makes sense. This is a tough one.

I know Al Reser played a significant role at the time but I haven't followed him closely. What do we have that leads us to conclude Miller out lived Reser? When did Reser die? Did Bill (William) Hidden (Hedden) appear in any other stories?

if Miller, just using that as an identifier, used an alias or two. There had to be a reason.

Usually its because someone wants to hide from something or somebody. Maybe we can get closer if we figure that part out. I know, that's next to impossible. But; maybe we can try.

Was it from an ex wife? From a debt holder? From the law? Hide from the draft or being a deserter?

If, as Travis writes (I know that's suspect too<g>), Miller is past 70 in 1958. then any military connection would be WWI era. He'd be prime for that.

The only other gleanings from what Travis writes that may reveal helpful info is Miller did have gainful work. But it appears it wasn't a 9 to 5 type work. Sounds like he was his own boss and was able to re-arrange his obligations at his choice. Travis talks of contacting him to go out in the mountains and .. paraphrasing here..... Miller had some pressing work but was eager enough to put that off and go out........

We'll keep digging............

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Morning Jim,

What you gleaned makes sense. This is a tough one.

I know Al Reser played a significant role at the time but I haven't followed him closely. What do we have that leads us to conclude Miller out lived Reser? When did Reser die? Did Bill (William) Hidden (Hedden) appear in any other stories?

if Miller, just using that as an identifier, used an alias or two. There had to be a reason.

Usually its because someone wants to hide from something or somebody. Maybe we can get closer if we figure that part out. I know, that's next to impossible. But; maybe we can try.

Was it from an ex wife? From a debt holder? From the law? Hide from the draft or being a deserter?

If, as Travis writes (I know that's suspect too<g>), Miller is past 70 in 1958. then any military connection would be WWI era. He'd be prime for that.

The only other gleanings from what Travis writes that may reveal helpful info is Miller did have gainful work. But it appears it wasn't a 9 to 5 type work. Sounds like he was his own boss and was able to re-arrange his obligations at his choice. Travis talks of contacting him to go out in the mountains and .. paraphrasing here..... Miller had some pressing work but was eager enough to put that off and go out........

We'll keep digging............

Howdy,

Matthew had posted earlier in the other thread about him going over to "Charlie Miller's" place at the trailer court, to let him know that Al had passed away...if I remember right, Matthew said that "Charlie Miller" had moved away and not left a forwarding address...

As far as Travis' description of Miller being past 70, I see no reason to doubt that...perhaps he made a mistake, but if Miller prospected with Rhodes Wilson for 20 years, they most likely would have been at least fairly close in age, if both of them were fit enough to do that for 20 years at the same time...

Travis' description of Miller's work seems to fit with what Carrol has said, at least in the sense that Miller lived in PHX, but was able to stay at a place near Goldfield as kind of a caretaker...perhaps he was retired and had no familial obligations...

At any rate, it now seems we can track Charlie Miller from the 1950's to the early 70's, and he seems to be at the center of Al Reser's stories about the stone maps, and also Travis's...perhaps what's causing the confusion is we don't have Al's stories first-hand, so Travis' "Charlie Miller" has gotten blended together with the trailer court "Charlie Miller"...

EDIT: Matthew's post is #2205 in "The Peralta Stone Maps on Their Own...as Dave said, next time Matthew checks in, he might be able to clear this up for us...

 

[Cubfan64]

Just a quick note that I haven't forgotten about this thread - just been busy with work and RL. A friend contacted me in the last few days with some possibly relevant information but I'm waiting to hear whether it's ok for me to share - it's nothing "secret" or anything, but I don't like sharing information from someone else without their consent.

I do have something interesting from him on Bill Hidden though and will try to find time this morning to post it here as well. I'm leaning more and more towards the possibility that we have a Charlie Miller Sr. and Charlie Miller Jr.

** Correction, I made a mistake looking at one of the dates of death for a Charlie Miller who was the son of an older Charlie Miller born in the late 1800's - I thought the son died in 2000 meaning it could have been the one Al knew while the older one could have been the one Travis knew, but it turns out I looked at it wrong and the son died in 1970. Disregard my leaning towards a father/son Miller team for now.

Al Reser passed away in 2000

 

[Cubfan64]

Garry Cundiff sent me a copy of this news article from 1983 featuring a photo of "Bill Hidden."

View attachment 1613748 View attachment 1613749

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Garry Cundiff sent me a copy of this news article from 1983 featuring a photo of "Bill Hidden."

View attachment 1613748 View attachment 1613749

Paul, appears to be broken links (invalid attachment) on the 1983 article Garry sent you...as far as the other stuff, no worries if you can't post it, that's how it goes sometimes...

EDIT: I found some stuff on quite a few Charlie Millers in AZ, but nothing that looked promising...the guy I posted the 1937 homestead claim for appears not to be our guy either, I tracked him all the way down to his burial in Mesa...couldn't have been the guy Carrol knew...take care, Jim

 

[sgtfda]

Charlie was a true stoner! I guess you would be too if you were present when the stones were dug up. Did it ever occur to anyone the stones Travis offered to buy were not the ones he had!

 

[Cubfan64]

Charlie was a true stoner! I guess you would be too if you were present when the stones were dug up. Did it ever occur to anyone the stones Travis offered to buy were not the ones he had!

Yes that occurred to me Frank. I also didn't see anything on the "draft" telegram indicating it was going to be sent to Charlie Miller - was that just an assumption or something not shown?

 

[Cubfan64]

Garry Cundiff sent me a copy of this news article from 1983 featuring a photo of "Bill Hidden."

View attachment 1613748 View attachment 1613749

Hmm - let me try it again...

 

[deducer]

Yes that occurred to me Frank. I also didn't see anything on the "draft" telegram indicating it was going to be sent to Charlie Miller - was that just an assumption or something not shown?

Good question, Paul. I'd like to know that too. Was there proof it was absolutely going to Charlie Miller? Hopefully Lynda can answer.

 

[sgtfda]

The bait. The telegram
The boat. The SS Charlie Miller
The fish. Well your either riding the boat or your the fish.

 

[Cubfan64]

Ughhh this crappy personal animosity makes it really difficult to have casual discussions. Speaking of difficult, it's becoming increasingly difficult to follow the story on one forum and have discussions on another.

I raised the question, so I suppose I should explain why I asked it...

I did see your post Lynda, but I forgot the specifics of what you had said. My questions was raised because of something said on the other forum...



92% certainty is pretty high so I was just wondering aloud what made Ryan so certain is all

 

[Cubfan64]

Knock it off everyone please

 

[azdave35]

Ughhh this crappy personal animosity makes it really difficult to have casual discussions. Speaking of difficult, it's becoming increasingly difficult to follow the story on one forum and have discussions on another.

I raised the question, so I suppose I should explain why I asked it...

I did see your post Lynda, but I forgot the specifics of what you had said. My questions was raised because of something said on the other forum...

View attachment 1613920

92% certainty is pretty high so I was just wondering aloud what made Ryan so certain is all

everything has pretty much dried up on the other forum

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Everyone here is very familiar with our rules so let's make it simple, any more insults, attacks, mocking or talking down to other members and said member(s) will lose the right to post at all for more than a few months.

Thread is locked and will be cleaned.

 

[deducer]

Ughhh this crappy personal animosity makes it really difficult to have casual discussions. Speaking of difficult, it's becoming increasingly difficult to follow the story on one forum and have discussions on another.

I raised the question, so I suppose I should explain why I asked it...

I did see your post Lynda, but I forgot the specifics of what you had said. My questions was raised because of something said on the other forum...

View attachment 1613920

92% certainty is pretty high so I was just wondering aloud what made Ryan so certain is all

Hopefully neither he or Lynda will object to sharing what evidence or clue leads them to the conclusion that Charlie Miller was the person TT was trying to buy the Stone Maps from, and if these Stone Maps are the same ones currently at the SMHS museum.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Hopefully neither he or Lynda will object to sharing what evidence or clue leads them to the conclusion that Charlie Miller was the person TT was trying to buy the Stone Maps from, and if these Stone Maps are the same ones currently at the SMHS museum.

The very first thought I had when I read that section, was that "Charlie Miller", or whomever it was the telegram was sent to, had most likely swindled Travis...hate to say it, but it wouldn't be the first time such a thing would have happened, and it's always my first thought when dealing with any treasure map or "inside information" about the Supes...perhaps the same someone who told Travis the B.S. story about Roy Bradford killing Ruth, or Tex trying to poison Bradford...sad...I won't shoot the messenger, in this case Travis, but it is what it is...