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Thread: Hdden water north of the river , whats the story?

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  1. #16
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyground View Post
    I've been to the old mine site there. Someone told me he got mostly copper? Yes, there was a lot of Spanish activity in that area. That's why I have spent so much time in there. If you look at the old Hunter's place, in between Lomg and Alder Canyon, you will find a round corral. I believe the Spanish built it first in 1600s, and those cowboys rebuilt it and used it. The Spanish had a base camp there from where they prospected all of the surrounding mountains. May have had something to do with the Superstions also. I have located a very old trail heading south out of there, crossing the river and around the cliffs. Only by boat for this one. I have explored all of those mountains below Four Peaks. There are some seriously amazing secrets up in there, no doubt. I will share someday. I have been down many dirt roads but I can honestly say that the dirt road to Cottonwood Ranch is the worst of them all. There is one spot where a sheet of rock, on a 45 degree angle is the road bed. I once ended up on two wheels and looking over the end of the world for about 6 seconds till God decided to give me more time. I know that road intimatly!
    That's the Brown Ranch isn't it? Same guy they named Brown's Cave for up in Alder Creek? Jim Bark and John Chuning sure did like that area...here's Brown's brand reg from 1895, from the Maricopa Co. Recorder/Brand Book:
    Attachment 1638717

    Dave, I think the Forest Service finally took the house down at Cottonwood Camp in 2008...I also did some looking, you're right, the other guy's name was indeed Hughes...wish my memory was that good!

    Paul, when you read this, if you still want to head up Alder Creek from the lake, we can use my parent's boat...they live right down Brown Rd, a straight shot from AJ...will shoot you an email...

  2. #17

    Nov 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyground View Post
    I've been to the old mine site there. Someone told me he got mostly copper? Yes, there was a lot of Spanish activity in that area. That's why I have spent so much time in there. If you look at the old Hunter's place, in between Lomg and Alder Canyon, you will find a round corral. I believe the Spanish built it first in 1600s, and those cowboys rebuilt it and used it. The Spanish had a base camp there from where they prospected all of the surrounding mountains. May have had something to do with the Superstions also. I have located a very old trail heading south out of there, crossing the river and around the cliffs. Only by boat for this one. I have explored all of those mountains below Four Peaks. There are some seriously amazing secrets up in there, no doubt. I will share someday. I have been down many dirt roads but I can honestly say that the dirt road to Cottonwood Ranch is the worst of them all. There is one spot where a sheet of rock, on a 45 degree angle is the road bed. I once ended up on two wheels and looking over the end of the world for about 6 seconds till God decided to give me more time. I know that road intimatly!
    What mine are you talking about??

  3. #18
    us
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    May 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc4261 View Post
    What mine are you talking about??
    South of the old bunkhouse of Cottonwood Ranch. It never really panned out. It was mostly low grade copper from what I hear. We took the trailhead there a few times and stopped by the mine site once. I wanted to see if maybe there could be some turquoise but it had none.

  4. #19
    us
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    Potbelly Jim,
    If you hike up Alder canyon, watchout for the nasty cougar and don't camp too close to the creek. Every evening, if it is nice and warm, hundreds of rattlers come down out of the rock cliffs to drink. It isn't safe to even step out of your tent to take a leak in there! I've never seen so many rattlers. When you get to the bamboo wall, like I said, watch out for that cougar! He sits in the bamboo and awaits his next customer. Poke you head inside the torture chamber and get a good whiff of stinky old blood. I love it up there. I might take another trip up in there myself.
    PotBelly Jim and larrywv like this.

  5. #20
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyground View Post
    Potbelly Jim,
    If you hike up Alder canyon, watchout for the nasty cougar and don't camp too close to the creek. Every evening, if it is nice and warm, hundreds of rattlers come down out of the rock cliffs to drink. It isn't safe to even step out of your tent to take a leak in there! I've never seen so many rattlers. When you get to the bamboo wall, like I said, watch out for that cougar! He sits in the bamboo and awaits his next customer. Poke you head inside the torture chamber and get a good whiff of stinky old blood. I love it up there. I might take another trip up in there myself.
    I like nasty cougars...

    Sounds like my kind of place...I definitely want to get up in there...have never gone much past cottonwoood camp...unless I was going over the peaks, we had a home on Tonto Creek for awhile, and family out there in Gisela...used to love gem hunting around there...but most of my time was spent between the Aqua Fria and Verde...very, very cool things to be seen in there...kind of a "forgotten area"...
    deducer, Holyground and alan m like this.

  6. #21
    EDN
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    Gilbert, Arizona
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    I like nasty cougars...

    Sounds like my kind of place...I definitely want to get up in there...have never gone much past cottonwoood camp...unless I was going over the peaks, we had a home on Tonto Creek for awhile, and family out there in Gisela...used to love gem hunting around there...but most of my time was spent between the Aqua Fria and Verde...very, very cool things to be seen in there...kind of a "forgotten area"...
    33°37'43.63"N,111°22'38.09"W Mine
    33°37'33.81"N, 111°22'23.77"W Mine
    33°37'33.59"N, 111°22'24.55"W Mine
    33°37'38.16"N, 111°20'45.48"W Water Trough
    33°36'36.53"N,111°19'9.66"W Old Mine Closed by Forest Service
    33°36'47.31"N, 111°20'9.69"W Stone Corral
    33°36'47.69"N, 111°20'11.45"W Crabtree Family Trapping Cabin
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #22
    EDN
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    33°36'16.08"N, 111°20'14.85"W Fire PitClick image for larger version. 

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  8. #23
    EDN
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    33°36'48.23"N, 111°20'11.95"W Water Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #24
    us
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    Very nice pictures. I was there a long time ago. Back in '92 I believe. Wish I had kept a diary. Thanks for posting these.
    The following is the opinion of the writer and if you don't like it you can stick it.

  10. #25
    Charter Member
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    Ditto of what HG said, thanks EDN for posting the pics and coordinates...the pics of the Crabtree cabin and the chimney how it looks now was really cool, and whoever built the fire-ring and seat was obviously an experienced desert rat...I like the Fred Flintstone style cupholder...thanks again, hopefully some day I can get in there to see some of that stuff.

  11. #26

    Dec 2016
    Mesa
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    Does anyone know the history of the stone house south of Cottonwood Camp before Agua Escondido? Guessing that it was a line shack, but...
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  12. #27
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinterlander View Post
    Does anyone know the history of the stone house south of Cottonwood Camp before Agua Escondido? Guessing that it was a line shack, but...
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hinterlander,

    This would have been the Jones Ranch headquarters although it looks as if someone has re-stacked the stone walls as it was just about completely down many years ago.
    Walker Wilson Jones, W.W. Jones better known as Doc Jones started a horse and cattle ranch in Cottonwood canyon in the 1870's and his son Johnny Jones ran the ranch and lived there.
    Later Jones brother-in law Poncho Monroy helped Jones with the ranch then started his own ranch on the south side of the Salt River at Jones ford crossing.
    Agua Escondido (hidden water) was on the Jones ranch just south of today's Cottonwood camp.
    Hidden water is about a quarter mile up today's Cane Spring canyon. In Doc Jones day Cane Spring canyon was known as Horse Creek.
    Doc Jones established a tuburculosis sanitarium at Blue Point near the Monroy ranch in the mid-1870's.

    The famous author Dane Coolidge wrote about Doc Jones ranch in his books Arizona Cowboys and Hidden Water and many references to the Jones.
    Both Doc and Johnny Jones are written about in Coolidges papers at the Bancroft library at University of California Berkeley.
    Coolidge also relates several stories about Jacob Waltz and his Lost Dutchman mine and the finding of Waltz nephew's skull at hidden water in his books and papers.

    Matthew

  13. #28

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
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    5291 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Roberts View Post
    Hinterlander,

    This would have been the Jones Ranch headquarters although it looks as if someone has re-stacked the stone walls as it was just about completely down many years ago.
    Walker Wilson Jones, W.W. Jones better known as Doc Jones started a horse and cattle ranch in Cottonwood canyon in the 1870's and his son Johnny Jones ran the ranch and lived there.
    Later Jones brother-in law Poncho Monroy helped Jones with the ranch then started his own ranch on the south side of the Salt River at Jones ford crossing.
    Agua Escondido (hidden water) was on the Jones ranch just south of today's Cottonwood camp.
    Hidden water is about a quarter mile up today's Cane Spring canyon. In Doc Jones day Cane Spring canyon was known as Horse Creek.
    Doc Jones established a tuburculosis sanitarium at Blue Point near the Monroy ranch in the mid-1870's.

    The famous author Dane Coolidge wrote about Doc Jones ranch in his books Arizona Cowboys and Hidden Water and many references to the Jones.
    Both Doc and Johnny Jones are written about in Coolidges papers at the Bancroft library at University of California Berkeley.
    Coolidge also relates several stories about Jacob Waltz and his Lost Dutchman mine and the finding of Waltz nephew's skull at hidden water in his books and papers.

    Matthew
    Matthew,

    Great book. Some good copies, soft cover & hard cover, can be found here:

    https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Boo...srp1-_-title10

    Good luck,

    Joe
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  14. #29
    us
    Director of Research, Acquisitions, Archives and Library, Superstition Mountain Historical Society,and one of its founders, Member of Arizona First Families, Westerners, Arizona Historical Society, Central Arizona Museum Association and the Dons Club

    Oct 2013
    Tempe, Arizona
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    Hello Matthew: Jack, Steve, Dick and myself passed that site on our way to Hidden Water in November of 2015. It took us an hour to clear out the brush and overgrowth so that we could take a picture of it. Tom Kollenborn told me that it was also at one time used as a Basque Goat Ranch. He had no date as to when it was used for that purpose. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

  15. #30
    us
    Apr 2013
    Huntington Beach California
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory E. Davis View Post
    Hello Matthew: Jack, Steve, Dick and myself passed that site on our way to Hidden Water in November of 2015. It took us an hour to clear out the brush and overgrowth so that we could take a picture of it. Tom Kollenborn told me that it was also at one time used as a Basque Goat Ranch. He had no date as to when it was used for that purpose. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
    Hello Greg,

    Pancho Monroy had a large goat herd in the area of both Jones Ranch and Monroy's Ranch on the south side of the Salt River at Jones ford.
    Jones ford crossing was the main crossing for sheep and goat herds coming from the Flagstaff area into the Superstitions and on to the Tonto Basin and Pleasant valley.
    Twice a year thousands of sheep went through that country. I can fully believe Monroy used that site as a headquarters and that is Tom Kollenborn's source for the story.

    Best,

    Matthew

 

 
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