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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    I suspect that generally speaking, rennes has made some good points. So has Brewer, but even though Bob has gathered some intriguing evidence pertaining to a number of well-known alleged caches (and some others that no one else but he and his clients are aware of), he has also had some spectacular location failures. This indicates to me a more than cunning brilliance on the part of whoever made the alleged caches and set the clues. I don't believe the prizes can be located using the obvious clues found in the hills. The fuzzy photo that rennes posted - whether or not all the stuff is on that rock as he claims - is likely irrelevant to solving the mystery because these clue layouts are meant to deceive, IMO.

    Brewer's book was certainly not what he wanted - you can blame Getler for that. As far as the Superstition region is concerned, I suspect his activities in Adamsville may be his most important. Names, especially place names, are extremely important in this game. So is geometry and mapping - not so much on the local level, but certainly when you look at bigger pictures.

    It was inevitable that posters would trash rennes. He was right about one thing, however - those who have a lot of time and energy invested in treasure legends usually cannot deal with being wrong about their beliefs. In my naive youth, someone sent me a book titled, Everything You Believe Is A Lie. The author made some good points, but I thought his conclusions were too radical and sold the book at a yard sale for a quarter. Now I'm not so sure he wasn't right.
    Well I don't know if Adamsville is going to prove to be a strong link to the lost Adams, since the town was founded by one Charles Adams, who sold his flour mill around 1870 and opened a saloon in the same town. As it was only a few miles from Florence, where most of the earliest links to Jacob Waltz lead, it is not too promising to link to the lost Adams in my opinion. Waltz is known to have been active in the Bradshaws while the Adams seems to be in the border area of AZ/NM, not to mention the other glaring difference of lode vs placer.

    As for the claims of our new friend Rennes, those are interesting photos, and I see no treasure of any kind nor any gold, ore, or even a vein in place. So, not very different from the big majority of the others who claimed to have found the LDM and have nothing to show for it. By the way Rennes, I hope you are not taking this personal. Most of the guys who claim to have solved the stone maps, found the LDM etc get angry at anyone who doubts their story when really if you consider that over 200 different people have all claimed to have found the LDM in over 200 different places, surely not all of them can be right? You are not the first to arrive on the forum to proclaim how stupid we all are and you have the treasure, solved the stones etc. If you took the time to read through the older threads you will find dozens of others have come before you. So please don't take this personal, but show us the treasure if you want us to believe you have it. If you say you found the LDM you will need to show some ore and perhaps the mine with the vein, and get the ore compared to one of the specimens from Waltz if you want everyone to believe you. Otherwise you are just like all the rest.

    Please do continue, no offense intended to anyone.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennes View Post
    Lost Dutchman enthusiasts please understand the solution to the LDM and Peralta's Mines has been published and proven by actual hard evidence. The real society responsible for adopting the legend of the LDM and Peralta's just used those stories to mark the region where the **** really did design a treasure depository and bury several large caches of treasure therein. This treasure was not in place prior to 1950's and the Stone Maps revealed a year or two later.
    The book "Shadow of the Sentinel"(Amazon.com) explores and explains the design and limits of that huge treasure depository. You cannot argue with facts as many are presented in the book. The photos it contains show some of the symbols found on the Peralta Stone Maps are found in the topography of the region. If you can't believe your eyes then there is no hope for you.
    The only reason the Dutchman and Peralta bunk continues is due to diehards who can't stand for their life long passion to come to an end. The Apache Junction has depended on this legend for it's livelihood for over 70 years. Read Shadow of the Sentinel with an open mind not contaminated by lies. You will see the solution is as near correct as any has ever been. Several caches have been located by a professional treasure team, although recovery is not probable at this time. Photo shows the Buzzard Roost Mountain sculpted into a skull, notice two eyes and head at top center, lower down the cliff face is a five pointed star and below that, quite obviously a heart formed from two different geological formations. Also is a 7 and a clown face if you look. Remember skulls, and pumpkin faces are major clues for **** treasure depositories. Second pic is of a death trap before it was tripped a few years ago. Have you thought, LUE?
    Attachment 1653488Attachment 1653495
    What society does the four stars represent. Shadow of the Sentinel doesn’t give you much information. New Mexico Confidential is a much better book.
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  3. #18
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    Rennes, I’m not trying to be a smart ass, but how can a cache be located if it hasn’t been recovered. I’ve been studying a site for ten years and evidence points to a cache, but no recovery has been made so I can’t say a cache has been located.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    What society does the four stars represent. Shadow of the Sentinel doesn’t give you much information. New Mexico Confidential is a much better book.
    I should have said that Shadow of the Sentinel is the tip of the iceberg.
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  5. #20
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    Rennes, why do you bring up the LUE.
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco View Post
    Well I don't know if Adamsville is going to prove to be a strong link to the lost Adams, since the town was founded by one Charles Adams, who sold his flour mill around 1870 and opened a saloon in the same town. As it was only a few miles from Florence, where most of the earliest links to Jacob Waltz lead, it is not too promising to link to the lost Adams in my opinion. Waltz is known to have been active in the Bradshaws while the Adams seems to be in the border area of AZ/NM, not to mention the other glaring difference of lode vs placer.

    As for the claims of our new friend Rennes, those are interesting photos, and I see no treasure of any kind nor any gold, ore, or even a vein in place. So, not very different from the big majority of the others who claimed to have found the LDM and have nothing to show for it. By the way Rennes, I hope you are not taking this personal. Most of the guys who claim to have solved the stone maps, found the LDM etc get angry at anyone who doubts their story when really if you consider that over 200 different people have all claimed to have found the LDM in over 200 different places, surely not all of them can be right? You are not the first to arrive on the forum to proclaim how stupid we all are and you have the treasure, solved the stones etc. If you took the time to read through the older threads you will find dozens of others have come before you. So please don't take this personal, but show us the treasure if you want us to believe you have it. If you say you found the LDM you will need to show some ore and perhaps the mine with the vein, and get the ore compared to one of the specimens from Waltz if you want everyone to believe you. Otherwise you are just like all the rest.

    Please do continue, no offense intended to anyone.
    Oro, I wasn't referring to the Lost Adams Diggings vis-á-vis my reference to Adamsville AZ, or more particularly, the surname Adams. As you know, I have provided a boatload of facts that locate the Lost Adams in an obvious spot in NM (which I may make available to a wider audience if I can flesh out the story a bit more to my own satisfaction).

    No, I was referring to the "Adams" link to Jacob Waltz in Post #14. If one accepts the detailed research compiled on Waltz's life history - available on TNet and elsewhere - one might entertain the theory that his dog and pony show is yet another example of misdirection and deception pertaining to an alleged cache of precious metal, this one somewhere in the Gila-Salt region of AZ.

    Why do I even care about the LDM/PSM rumors? I'll likely never set foot in the Superstitions to try to ferret out any of the specific clues on the ground - I've got plenty of that to do here in NM. As I said earlier: for me, it's the bigger picture. There are many conspiracy theories out there to ponder, but I consider myself a conspiracy analyst, not a theorist. It's my contention that all the major treasure legends are linked.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco View Post
    Well I don't know if Adamsville is going to prove to be a strong link to the lost Adams, since the town was founded by one Charles Adams, who sold his flour mill around 1870 and opened a saloon in the same town. As it was only a few miles from Florence, where most of the earliest links to Jacob Waltz lead, it is not too promising to link to the lost Adams in my opinion. Waltz is known to have been active in the Bradshaws while the Adams seems to be in the border area of AZ/NM, not to mention the other glaring difference of lode vs placer.

    As for the claims of our new friend Rennes, those are interesting photos, and I see no treasure of any kind nor any gold, ore, or even a vein in place. So, not very different from the big majority of the others who claimed to have found the LDM and have nothing to show for it. By the way Rennes, I hope you are not taking this personal. Most of the guys who claim to have solved the stone maps, found the LDM etc get angry at anyone who doubts their story when really if you consider that over 200 different people have all claimed to have found the LDM in over 200 different places, surely not all of them can be right? You are not the first to arrive on the forum to proclaim how stupid we all are and you have the treasure, solved the stones etc. If you took the time to read through the older threads you will find dozens of others have come before you. So please don't take this personal, but show us the treasure if you want us to believe you have it. If you say you found the LDM you will need to show some ore and perhaps the mine with the vein, and get the ore compared to one of the specimens from Waltz if you want everyone to believe you. Otherwise you are just like all the rest.

    Please do continue, no offense intended to anyone.

    Hi Roy,

    As you may remember, Adamsville and flour mills are an interest of mine. Here are the "facts" as I've been able to uncover so far:

    Ammi White and E.S. Noyes established a flour mill at Casa Blanca in 1860. It was the only mill in the area. There was no mill at Adamsville…yet.

    In March 1862, CSA forces under Capt. Sherrod Hunter briefly captured the mill at Casa Blanca, while Jack Swilling took the mill's owner Ammi White prisoner, and escorted him to captivity in Mesilla. White was considered a Union POW and was released when Union forces re-took control of New Mexico in late 1862.

    After chasing Hunter out of the area, Union troops built Fort Barrett and enclosed the mill within the fort’s walls. White returned after his release, and by 1864 the mill was operating under steam power. It was called the “Pima Steam Flourmill”.

    On May 10, 1867, White sold his interest in the mill to William Bichard. In late September of 1868, a flood on the Gila destroyed the mill. It was disassembled and taken to Adamsville where it was rebuilt. This was the first time there was a flour mill at Adamsville. It was built by the Bichard Bros, not Charles S. Adams.

    Charles S. Adams, the founder of Adamsville, had already sold out his interests in Adamsville and moved to the SRV before the mill was built there by William Bichard.

    Adams was killed in the “Wickenburg Massacre”, November 5, 1871. He never built or operated a mill at Adamsville. All the grain farmed at Adamsville was taken to Casa Blanca for milling, until the mill was relocated to Adamsville in 1867.(Edit: Sorry, wrong date...sometime between winter 1868 and 1870, but I haven't nailed down the exact date.)

    I realize there are stories of Waltz waiting an extra day in Adamsville because Adams didn’t have any flour milled yet (meanwhile Weiser was back at the mine getting killed). Whether or not they are true I have no idea. The only thing I would say is that Adams couldn’t have been the guy operating the mill, or have been the guy Waltz was waiting on to get flour milled. If the story is true, it would have had to been someone else besides Adams. Bichard himself was dead by 1873. So I have no idea who was supposed to be at the flour mill with Waltz. But it definitely wasn’t Adams.

    There are also several errors in the Hayden biographical file on William Bichard. It seems Hayden attributed several things Ammi White had accomplished prior to 1866, to William Bichard. The Bichards were English immigrants from San Francisco, and entered the Gila area of AZ no earlier than 1866 or 1867.

    Hope you (and everyone here on TNET) have a great Thanksgiving! Take care, Jim
    Last edited by PotBelly Jim; Nov 21, 2018 at 11:51 AM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    Hi Roy,

    As you may remember, Adamsville and flour mills are an interest of mine. Here are the "facts" as I've been able to uncover so far:

    Ammi White and E.S. Noyes established a flour mill at Casa Blanca in 1860. It was the only mill in the area. There was no mill at Adamsville…yet.

    In March 1862, CSA forces under Capt. Sherrod Hunter briefly captured the mill at Casa Blanca, while Jack Swilling took the mill's owner Ammi White prisoner, and escorted him to captivity in Mesilla. White was considered a Union POW and was released when Union forces re-took control of New Mexico in late 1862.

    After chasing Hunter out of the area, Union troops built Fort Barrett and enclosed the mill within the fort’s walls. White returned after his release, and by 1864 the mill was operating under steam power. It was called the “Pima Steam Flourmill”.

    On May 10, 1867, White sold his interest in the mill to William Bichard. In late September of 1868, a flood on the Gila destroyed the mill. It was disassembled and taken to Adamsville where it was rebuilt. This was the first time there was a flour mill at Adamsville. It was built by the Bichard Bros, not Charles S. Adams.

    Charles S. Adams, the founder of Adamsville, had already sold out his interests in Adamsville and moved to the SRV before the mill was built there by William Bichard.

    Adams was killed in the “Wickenburg Massacre”, November 5, 1871. He never built or operated a mill at Adamsville. All the grain farmed at Adamsville was taken to Casa Blanca for milling, until the mill was relocated to Adamsville in 1867.

    I realize there are stories of Waltz waiting an extra day in Adamsville because Adams didn’t have any flour milled yet (meanwhile Weiser was back at the mine getting killed). Whether or not they are true I have no idea. The only thing I would say is that Adams couldn’t have been the guy operating the mill, or have been the guy Waltz was waiting on to get flour milled. If the story is true, it would have had to been someone else besides Adams. Bichard himself was dead by 1873. So I have no idea who was supposed to be at the flour mill with Waltz. But it definitely wasn’t Adams.

    There are also several errors in the Hayden biographical file on William Bichard. It seems Hayden attributed several things Ammi White had accomplished prior to 1866, to William Bichard. The Bichards were English immigrants from San Francisco, and entered the Gila area of AZ no earlier than 1866 or 1867.

    Hope you (and everyone here on TNET) have a great Thanksgiving! Take care, Jim
    This is great information thank you for the post
    just a couple of questions
    1. How do we know when Waltz was at Adamsville while weiser was at camp?
    2. If the story about Waltz waiting in Adamsville is a deception, how would that story decieve anyone?
    3. The story I recall stated that Waltz was waiting for flour because there was none, is this significant? Could he have been waiting for something else?
    thank you everyone for your comments
    time for another drink

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    Hi Roy,

    As you may remember, Adamsville and flour mills are an interest of mine. Here are the "facts" as I've been able to uncover so far:

    Ammi White and E.S. Noyes established a flour mill at Casa Blanca in 1860. It was the only mill in the area. There was no mill at Adamsville…yet.

    In March 1862, CSA forces under Capt. Sherrod Hunter briefly captured the mill at Casa Blanca, while Jack Swilling took the mill's owner Ammi White prisoner, and escorted him to captivity in Mesilla. White was considered a Union POW and was released when Union forces re-took control of New Mexico in late 1862.

    After chasing Hunter out of the area, Union troops built Fort Barrett and enclosed the mill within the fort’s walls. White returned after his release, and by 1864 the mill was operating under steam power. It was called the “Pima Steam Flourmill”.

    On May 10, 1867, White sold his interest in the mill to William Bichard. In late September of 1868, a flood on the Gila destroyed the mill. It was disassembled and taken to Adamsville where it was rebuilt. This was the first time there was a flour mill at Adamsville. It was built by the Bichard Bros, not Charles S. Adams.

    Charles S. Adams, the founder of Adamsville, had already sold out his interests in Adamsville and moved to the SRV before the mill was built there by William Bichard.

    Adams was killed in the “Wickenburg Massacre”, November 5, 1871. He never built or operated a mill at Adamsville. All the grain farmed at Adamsville was taken to Casa Blanca for milling, until the mill was relocated to Adamsville in 1867.(Edit: Sorry, wrong date...sometime between winter 1868 and 1870, but I haven't nailed down the exact date.)

    I realize there are stories of Waltz waiting an extra day in Adamsville because Adams didn’t have any flour milled yet (meanwhile Weiser was back at the mine getting killed). Whether or not they are true I have no idea. The only thing I would say is that Adams couldn’t have been the guy operating the mill, or have been the guy Waltz was waiting on to get flour milled. If the story is true, it would have had to been someone else besides Adams. Bichard himself was dead by 1873. So I have no idea who was supposed to be at the flour mill with Waltz. But it definitely wasn’t Adams.

    There are also several errors in the Hayden biographical file on William Bichard. It seems Hayden attributed several things Ammi White had accomplished prior to 1866, to William Bichard. The Bichards were English immigrants from San Francisco, and entered the Gila area of AZ no earlier than 1866 or 1867.

    Hope you (and everyone here on TNET) have a great Thanksgiving! Take care, Jim
    Happy Thanksgiving to you and to everyone here on Tnet!

    There are old maps showing "Adams Mill" for the site which is Adamsville, and I don't know if he ever had a mill because I wasn't there. He did however own a saloon, as he advertised in the Tucson newspaper right through 1870, and is supposed to have sold out his interests in Adamsville to move to Phoenix.

    The Bichards claimed in their newspaper advertisements to have founded their mill in 1865, so I don't know when it was established.

    Waltz certainly could have been delayed due to Charles Adams, as Adams had a drinking establishment and Waltz was supposedly not a teetotaler in that time period, so regardless of who owned the flour mill or what store he might have been buying supplies from, it is certainly possible that Adams was involved.

    SDCFIA I don't know if all of the treasure legends are linked or not, but the 'dog and pony show' LDM legend as it stands is almost certainly a mixed up confabulation from several different and unrelated lost mine stories that were in circulation at the time of Waltz's death. In fact it is even questionable whether the whole Waltz/Weiser/Adamsville episode happened or if that is not something "borrowed" from the Jacobs and Ludy/Peralta story. The Ludy story has a nearly identical set of circumstances, one partner was left at the mine while the other went for supplies, both thought the other killed etc. However Waltz definitely had some activities in Florence and almost certainly at Adamsville, after leaving the Bradshaws, so it is quite possible that part of the Waltz tale is truthful. Tom Weedin got his version of the Weiser tale from Dr John Walker, so in my opinion it should not be tossed out of the salad of LDM lore.

    Alan M - it may not be too important to nail down the dates involved for Waltz at Adamsville, or whether he waited for flour or not. If you remove these aspects or incidents from the overall picture, it doesn't really change anything, which means there is little reason for it to be a set of lies. It could be the truth. That is the big problem for anyone trying to find the LDM, the truth has been blended in with a lot of unrelated information and outright lies, so it is very difficult to get at the truth.

    Please do continue;

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  10. #25
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    alan m: I'm not sure that the answers to your three questions - if the answers are even available - have any significance, other than the apparent fact that Waltz spent at least some time in Adamsville AZ. The first thing I would check is whether any complete biography is available for Charles S. Adams. I suspect that would be a complete dead end, but the importance here is not the flour miller, but the name "Adams" and the recognition it carries for the Organization loosely referred to as the KGC. Named things, people, places - those are the identifiers in treasure tales, especially those allegedly associated with the KGC.

    As an aside, Jacob Waltz spent a couple years (late 1840s) in Natchez MS, in that the incubator for the founding of the KGC under Gen. Quitman. Natchez is the county seat of Adams County MS. [name recognition] Was Waltz indoctrinated there? Maybe, because he and other budding operatives (including, of all people, members of Jesse James' family) relocated to Paso Robles County CA, during the CA gold rush. Paso Robles became quite a western center of Southern political support prior to and during the Civil War.

    As another aside: does anyone know the exact coordinates for the Tempe Mystery Glyphs shown below? If so, I'd like to know, because with that information I can provide you with an interesting map of the western Superstition Range that you can play around with concerning the LDM/PSM lore.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tempe.jpg 
Views:	362 
Size:	1.68 MB 
ID:	1654106

    Oro: yes, the confusion, cross-pollination, disinformation, et al regarding these treasure tales is maddening. What else can you do except try to gather the earliest information available and try to reconcile it with later stuff? The problem then becomes in choosing which information is the most reliable.

    rennes: to echo mdog, what is meant by your LUE comment?
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco View Post
    Happy Thanksgiving to you and to everyone here on Tnet!

    There are old maps showing "Adams Mill" for the site which is Adamsville, and I don't know if he ever had a mill because I wasn't there. He did however own a saloon, as he advertised in the Tucson newspaper right through 1870, and is supposed to have sold out his interests in Adamsville to move to Phoenix.

    The Bichards claimed in their newspaper advertisements to have founded their mill in 1865, so I don't know when it was established.

    Waltz certainly could have been delayed due to Charles Adams, as Adams had a drinking establishment and Waltz was supposedly not a teetotaler in that time period, so regardless of who owned the flour mill or what store he might have been buying supplies from, it is certainly possible that Adams was involved.

    SDCFIA I don't know if all of the treasure legends are linked or not, but the 'dog and pony show' LDM legend as it stands is almost certainly a mixed up confabulation from several different and unrelated lost mine stories that were in circulation at the time of Waltz's death. In fact it is even questionable whether the whole Waltz/Weiser/Adamsville episode happened or if that is not something "borrowed" from the Jacobs and Ludy/Peralta story. The Ludy story has a nearly identical set of circumstances, one partner was left at the mine while the other went for supplies, both thought the other killed etc. However Waltz definitely had some activities in Florence and almost certainly at Adamsville, after leaving the Bradshaws, so it is quite possible that part of the Waltz tale is truthful. Tom Weedin got his version of the Weiser tale from Dr John Walker, so in my opinion it should not be tossed out of the salad of LDM lore.

    Alan M - it may not be too important to nail down the dates involved for Waltz at Adamsville, or whether he waited for flour or not. If you remove these aspects or incidents from the overall picture, it doesn't really change anything, which means there is little reason for it to be a set of lies. It could be the truth. That is the big problem for anyone trying to find the LDM, the truth has been blended in with a lot of unrelated information and outright lies, so it is very difficult to get at the truth.

    Please do continue;

    Hi Roy,

    I hope you guys aren't getting pounded with snow...we have about a foot of crunchy ice (that used to be snow)...the last few days have been snowblower, plow, shovel, repeat...worst I've ever seen it in NOV since I relocated up here...

    Regarding the flour mill quandary...if the Bichards advertised their mill as being founded in 1865, I guess that could be explained as near the date they bought an interest in Ammi White's mill at Casa Blanca...I believe that transaction occurred in San Fran...I've been down this road of research, trying to verify and untangle what was claimed, and what is the truth. The truth of the matter APPEARS to be that the Bichards bought into that mill long after White originally founded it (1867 is the earliest record I've found, but that doesn't mean earlier ones don't exist, of course), and then they bought White out entirely in the spring of 1867, after which White returned to SF...

    Adams' saloon in Adamsville SEEMS to have been a short-lived enterprise...from what I was able to find so far, he only operated it for part of the year in 1870. He then seems to have either sold or left it (I believe the Bichards owned the building, and there were rumors of "rum-running" to the Pimas), as he became the Prescott agent for Bichard & Co. Flour Depot later that year. He was also involved with Bichard's holdings in Phoenix during this time frame, which included a short-lived flour mill which burned down(arson rumored). Like the Bichards, he made his home and kept his family in SF, frequently traveling back and forth...so it has been difficult for me to find business records.

    As with any research project, it's unlikely any one person has the whole picture...I don't...If you can remember which map that shows "Adams Mill", or the newspaper advertisement with the 1865 date for a Bichard mill, I would be in your debt...I went through my pile of junk and it looks like I don't have those...

    One possibility that I've often wondered about...While I've seen records indicating flour was being milled at Casa Blanca for Adamsville farmers, it's also possible that Adams (or someone) had constructed one of the small animal driven mills (that look kind of like an arrastra) at Adamsville. I've not been able to find any evidence of that yet, but it just seems like something that would be worth doing for a settler farming grain back then. A small mill like that would fit well into the story of Waltz having to wait a day to get some flour milled, as such a mill wouldn't produce much and it would be hard to always have enough flour on-hand for sale.



    Happy Thanksgiving to All!!!
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    alan m: I'm not sure that the answers to your three questions - if the answers are even available - have any significance, other than the apparent fact that Waltz spent at least some time in Adamsville AZ. The first thing I would check is whether any complete biography is available for Charles S. Adams. I suspect that would be a complete dead end, but the importance here is not the flour miller, but the name "Adams" and the recognition it carries for the Organization loosely referred to as the KGC. Named things, people, places - those are the identifiers in treasure tales, especially those allegedly associated with the KGC.

    As an aside, Jacob Waltz spent a couple years (late 1840s) in Natchez MS, in that the incubator for the founding of the KGC under Gen. Quitman. Natchez is the county seat of Adams County MS. [name recognition] Was Waltz indoctrinated there? Maybe, because he and other budding operatives (including, of all people, members of Jesse James' family) relocated to Paso Robles County CA, during the CA gold rush. Paso Robles became quite a western center of Southern political support prior to and during the Civil War.

    As another aside: does anyone know the exact coordinates for the Tempe Mystery Glyphs shown below? If so, I'd like to know, because with that information I can provide you with an interesting map of the western Superstition Range that you can play around with concerning the LDM/PSM lore.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	tempe.jpg 
Views:	362 
Size:	1.68 MB 
ID:	1654106

    Oro: yes, the confusion, cross-pollination, disinformation, et al regarding these treasure tales is maddening. What else can you do except try to gather the earliest information available and try to reconcile it with later stuff? The problem then becomes in choosing which information is the most reliable.

    rennes: to echo mdog, what is meant by your LUE comment?
    Steve, I would like to hear more about this...You probably already know this, but there were also a Samuel Adams and a John Quincy Adams that were on the scene in the goldfields/mines in the Prescott area during the Civil War...very thought-provoking to say the least...
    sdcfia, Azquester, mdog and 1 others like this.

  13. #28
    pt
    Sep 2014
    2,724
    7163 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    Steve, I would like to hear more about this...You probably already know this, but there were also a Samuel Adams and a John Quincy Adams that were on the scene in the goldfields/mines in the Prescott area during the Civil War...very thought-provoking to say the least...
    It's a deep rabbit hole. When I was interested in KGC research, I found the genealogy websites and forums to be the most productive as far as individuals are concerned. Families tend to know a lot of history that is unavailable otherwise. A lot of good stuff is available on the TNet threads, but you have to be careful because back in the day (ca 1860s to WWI and beyond), the Organization was the same as today's Deep State. Hell, maybe the Deep State is the progeny. Ha ha. Rabbit hole.
    Azquester, alan m, mdog and 2 others like this.
    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  14. #29
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2011
    Gold canyon AZ
    964
    1448 times
    Cache Hunting
    I believe the Adamsville story, in general, but am still puzzled by a few oddities;
    if Queen Valley had flour, or anything in the way of supplies, as Jim states, why did Waltz go to Adamsville instead of Queen Valley?
    also, in light of the story indicating that he was aware of Apache in the area, Adamsville would have meant that he had to travel over 20 or so miles of bushy open territory, a favorite for Apache attacks and ambushes.
    it seems to me that there may have been another reason in addition to supplies as to why Waltz chose Adamsville.
    sdcfia, mdog, PotBelly Jim and 1 others like this.
    time for another drink

  15. #30
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,242
    5052 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by alan m View Post
    I believe the Adamsville story, in general, but am still puzzled by a few oddities;
    if Queen Valley had flour, or anything in the way of supplies, as Jim states, why did Waltz go to Adamsville instead of Queen Valley?
    also, in light of the story indicating that he was aware of Apache in the area, Adamsville would have meant that he had to travel over 20 or so miles of bushy open territory, a favorite for Apache attacks and ambushes.
    it seems to me that there may have been another reason in addition to supplies as to why Waltz chose Adamsville.
    Waltz could had an open account in Adamsville .
    mdog, PotBelly Jim and Oroblanco like this.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





 

 
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