Question about Walts Cave

[Doc4261]

Here is a nasty beauty. Never took any of it. Not what I was looking for. But appreciate the geology that makes a beautiful piece of ore like that. View attachment 1746749 Smiles View attachment 1746749

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[Oroblanco]

Who knows. Lol. Guess it don't matter much. I'm going where I'm going. If I find something cool. One off the list. If it happens to be the ldm fine but something is up where I go. Then on to the other 3 . Since the squaw map is in the vicinity might as well check it out and see if I was right. Then the one by weevers needle on the east side. Then I'm done with the south and then to the north. Which will keep me busy for a long while. One step at a time. Actually think I don't have enough time before I get old. Lol

I wasn't saying to throw out any clues, just wondered where you had found that statement. There are over 100 clues now, who knows which are actually correct?

 

[Doc4261]

I wasn't saying to throw out any clues, just wondered where you had found that statement. There are over 100 clues now, who knows which are actually correct?

Never went off any clues. Was following the jesuit maps. Then the stone maps. Just trying to see if any of the mines truely fit the Dutchman. Dutchman wasn't what I was looking for. But maybe I stumbled upon the area . Who knows..

 

[Oroblanco]

Never went off any clues. Was following the jesuit maps. Then the stone maps. Just trying to see if any of the mines truely fit the Dutchman. Dutchman wasn't what I was looking for. But maybe I stumbled upon the area . Who knows..

I would still be interested in reading the source if you should ever remember where you ran across that clue about the dangerous water. No hurry either, just curious as it was a different clue than I have seen before. Like I said there are over 100 clues now, it would not be a big surprise if a new clue should turn up somewhere. Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And thanks in advance if you run across that source story again.
Oroblanco

 

[Idahodutch]

Dangerous Water?

I would still be interested in reading the source if you should ever remember where you ran across that clue about the dangerous water. No hurry either, just curious as it was a different clue than I have seen before. Like I said there are over 100 clues now, it would not be a big surprise if a new clue should turn up somewhere. Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. And thanks in advance if you run across that source story again.
Oroblanco

Oro,
I seem to recall something about Geronimo was going to go to the cave, but the headwaters made the normal passage too dangerous so they had to drop a rope from above to get into the cave. Just paraphrasing because It was some time ago that I read it and I don't recall the source
Idaho

 

[Doc4261]

View attachment 1780933 The widened hole to get ore through. Fresh off the press. Lol

 

[Doc4261]

View attachment 1780933 The widened hole to get ore through. Fresh off the press. Lol

Better pic of the widening of the "hole" "vent" "cave" .. whatever u wanta call it.. View attachment 1781199

 

[Doc4261]

Better pic of the widening of the "hole" "vent" "cave" .. whatever u wanta call it.. View attachment 1781199

Some pics. One with the marker to the "cave" . The hemitite outcropping below and a view of inside as u can see there is a hole that lets light in and further in is what I would call a crack in the earth a foot or 2 wide. Thought I got it on video when I put my hand down from the top hole that put light in, but ran out of juice on the phone. Ohh well next trip will be going in the "caves". My guide found the other cave that was walled up but about a ft and a half. In which he saw a nuggie a lil bigger than the size of a bb. He called it a "blob" of gold. His cave has a natural bridge above that he walked on. It's how he found it. Up high but have to go down to get to it. .. Let's say made my guide a believer. He's going back to get that nuggie as he put it if there is a baby nuggie there are
mommy and daddy nuggies there. Lol He also said will be the easiest mining he ever saw. Just pry it from the rock wall. View attachment 1781637 View attachment 1781638 View attachment 1781639

 

[Doc4261]

If anyone here been there would like to hear from ya. I know I'm not the only one that has been there found some human activity atleast in the last 20 yrs there. As found a piece of trash. View attachment 1781641

 

[Doc4261]

Some pics. One with the marker to the "cave" . The hemitite outcropping below and a view of inside as u can see there is a hole that lets light in and further in is what I would call a crack in the earth a foot or 2 wide. Thought I got it on video when I put my hand down from the top hole that put light in, but ran out of juice on the phone. Ohh well next trip will be going in the "caves". My guide found the other cave that was walled up but about a ft and a half. In which he saw a nuggie a lil bigger than the size of a bb. He called it a "blob" of gold. His cave has a natural bridge above that he walked on. It's how he found it. Up high but have to go down to get to it. .. Let's say made my guide a believer. He's going back to get that nuggie as he put it if there is a baby nuggie there are
mommy and daddy nuggies there. Lol He also said will be the easiest mining he ever saw. Just pry it from the rock wall. View attachment 1781637 View attachment 1781638 View attachment 1781639

Closer pics View attachment 1804194 View attachment 1804195 View attachment 1804196

 

[gollum]

I wasn't saying to throw out any clues, just wondered where you had found that statement. There are over 100 clues now, who knows which are actually correct?

Roy,

That statement and question are the answer to ALMOST everything people need to know about the Lost Dutchman Mine.........................and why going on almost 129 years and nobody has found it!

Here is what I have learned in my years researching this subject:

1. The mine is real and as of 2020 has not been found.

2. 99.9% of all the known CLUES are complete and utter BULLPUCKY! Imagine you own the "Quarter Circle U" Ranch. Your cattle graze in the Western End of the Superstition Mountains. You don't a bunch of out of town idiots running through your grazing area scaring cattle and tearing apart springs, troughs, and rock line shacks. SO.................you tell everybody the "SECRET" clues all place the LDM somewhere in the EAST SIDE of the mountains. NOW, lets say you own the JF Ranch and your cattle graze on the East End of the mountains. You don't want those nutjobs running around there scaring cattle and tearing apart springs, troughs, and rock line shacks. SO.................you tell everybody that YOUR secret clues all place the LDM in the West End of the mountains. Now......you are an author. You know that everybody already knows all the usual clues that have been regurgitated ad nauseum. So, in order to sell more books, you make up some new clues. Now you are a newspaper reporter. You want people to buy the paper and read your article, so you make up some new clues to add to the mix. NOW..........you are a Pathological Liar who wants to inject yourself into LDM History. You make up even more clues to add to the mix. AND EVEN if people don't just make up "NEW" clues, the old clues being regurgitated ad nauseum are like playing "Telephone". Every time the clues get retold, someone adds a word or a comma that alters the original meaning of the clue. There are a million ways things get added to or made up, so that what clues aren't BS, their meaning has drastically changed since 1891.

The only clues I give any credence to are from Sims Ely's Book. BUT...........even then I understand the Spangler Family (Jim Bark's Family) asked Ely to leave out or change some things for the book, so those are somewhat suspect.


So...........there are precious metals in the Superstitions (regardless of what most Geologists will tell you). There are still several unfound Peralta/Gonzalez Mines. There is probably at least one cave with a stack of gold bars. Possible Jesuits Treasure Cave. Large Silver Bell (Rojas), Valuable Paintings, etc, etc, etc.


Enjoy - Mike

 

[somehiker]

If anyone here been there would like to hear from ya. I know I'm not the only one that has been there found some human activity atleast in the last 20 yrs there. As found a piece of trash. View attachment 1781641

Remnants of a helium filled party balloon.
Lots of them out there, which I usually pick up and take back to town as I find them.

 

[markmar]

I have read again the 100 and so LDM clues which Oroblanco was writing about, and I didn't find any reference to the east or west side of the Superstitions. The most clues belong to old timers LDM researchers, clues which were " taken " from Petrash brothers, LDM books, treasure stories, etc.
I didn't find also any clue written by a new LDM researcher or someone who is known as pathological liar.
But maybe I'm wrong and I have read the other 100+ LDM clues which are disponible only to the public.

We have to remember how the present LDM researchers do their work using what clues can find in the public domain.

 

[azdave35]

I have read again the 100 and so LDM clues which Oroblanco was writing about, and I didn't find any reference to the east or west side of the Superstitions. The most clues belong to old timers LDM researchers, clues which were " taken " from Petrash brothers, LDM books, treasure stories, etc.
I didn't find also any clue written by a new LDM researcher or someone who is known as pathological liar.
But maybe I'm wrong and I have read the other 100+ LDM clues which are disponible only to the public.

We have to remember how the present LDM researchers do their work using what clues can find in the public domain.

marius...alot of the local dutch hunters go along with mike on the theory about the ranchers...i don't think most people realize how much power the ranchers had in those days...they had all the money and controlled alot of land...they also had alot of politicians in their pockets...whether anyone wants to believe it they were heavily involved with the legend of the ldm...it was on their land and they didn't want a bunch of crazy miners up there ruining their way of life

 

[markmar]

marius...alot of the local dutch hunters go along with mike on the theory about the ranchers...i don't think most people realize how much power the ranchers had in those days...they had all the money and controlled alot of land...they also had alot of politicians in their pockets...whether anyone wants to believe it they were heavily involved with the legend of the ldm...it was on their land and they didn't want a bunch of crazy miners up there ruining their way of life

Could be Dave, but I was talking about the 100+ clues which someone can find in the public domain. Wanted or not the ranchers the LDM researchers on " their " land in the mountains, the LDM hunters were all over the range all the time, using what clues could find from what sources they believed were accurate.
See, the gold has most power than what the ranchers had in those days. And don't forget, the most ranchers of the Superstitions have inhaled the gold bug.

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

That statement and question are the answer to ALMOST everything people need to know about the Lost Dutchman Mine.........................and why going on almost 129 years and nobody has found it!

Here is what I have learned in my years researching this subject:

1. The mine is real and as of 2020 has not been found.

2. 99.9% of all the known CLUES are complete and utter BULLPUCKY! Imagine you own the "Quarter Circle U" Ranch. Your cattle graze in the Western End of the Superstition Mountains. You don't a bunch of out of town idiots running through your grazing area scaring cattle and tearing apart springs, troughs, and rock line shacks. SO.................you tell everybody the "SECRET" clues all place the LDM somewhere in the EAST SIDE of the mountains. NOW, lets say you own the JF Ranch and your cattle graze on the East End of the mountains. You don't want those nutjobs running around there scaring cattle and tearing apart springs, troughs, and rock line shacks. SO.................you tell everybody that YOUR secret clues all place the LDM in the West End of the mountains. Now......you are an author. You know that everybody already knows all the usual clues that have been regurgitated ad nauseum. So, in order to sell more books, you make up some new clues. Now you are a newspaper reporter. You want people to buy the paper and read your article, so you make up some new clues to add to the mix. NOW..........you are a Pathological Liar who wants to inject yourself into LDM History. You make up even more clues to add to the mix. AND EVEN if people don't just make up "NEW" clues, the old clues being regurgitated ad nauseum are like playing "Telephone". Every time the clues get retold, someone adds a word or a comma that alters the original meaning of the clue. There are a million ways things get added to or made up, so that what clues aren't BS, their meaning has drastically changed since 1891.

The only clues I give any credence to are from Sims Ely's Book. BUT...........even then I understand the Spangler Family (Jim Bark's Family) asked Ely to leave out or change some things for the book, so those are somewhat suspect.


So...........there are precious metals in the Superstitions (regardless of what most Geologists will tell you). There are still several unfound Peralta/Gonzalez Mines. There is probably at least one cave with a stack of gold bars. Possible Jesuits Treasure Cave. Large Silver Bell (Rojas), Valuable Paintings, etc, etc, etc.


Enjoy - Mike

Good post Mike, agree with 98% too. I would only point out that the Quarter Circle U ranch was not quite so hostile to the treasure hunters as some other ranchers were, at one time it was considered the unofficial HQ for all Dutch hunters. It was the reason why there were other treasure hunters hanging around there when Adolph Ruth arrived and bragged about having a map, resulting in tragedy. But point taken, the ranchers did not appreciate the cut fences, treasure hunters setting up camps at the water holes and keeping the livestock from getting water etc.

Please do continue;

 

[Idahodutch]

Could be Dave, but I was talking about the 100+ clues which someone can find in the public domain. Wanted or not the ranchers the LDM researchers on " their " land in the mountains, the LDM hunters were all over the range all the time, using what clues could find from what sources they believed were accurate.
See, the gold has most power than what the ranchers had in those days. And don't forget, the most ranchers of the Superstitions have inhaled the gold bug.

I agree that ranchers, politicians, gold, but also mystery. People want to find out the answers.

 

[gollum]

Good post Mike, agree with 98% too. I would only point out that the Quarter Circle U ranch was not quite so hostile to the treasure hunters as some other ranchers were, at one time it was considered the unofficial HQ for all Dutch hunters. It was the reason why there were other treasure hunters hanging around there when Adolph Ruth arrived and bragged about having a map, resulting in tragedy. But point taken, the ranchers did not appreciate the cut fences, treasure hunters setting up camps at the water holes and keeping the livestock from getting water etc.

Please do continue;

Roy,

A smart rancher that BELIEVED in the LDM would want to be known as the center for everything LDM. Think he might have wanted to get some secret tidbits from all those LDM Hunters? Doesn't mean he wouldn't try to steer them away from his cattle.

Mike

 

[Doc4261]

Remnants of a helium filled party balloon.
Lots of them out there, which I usually pick up and take back to town as I find them.

Makes sense. Hadn't thought of that. No one contacted me as knowing where my cave is. I won't be going down there this year cuz of covid it looks like.. Just can't get try time off work to quarantine after. Hope to get there asap to have a lil something to truely prove. Till then only have pics. ATTACH=CONFIG]1858478[/ATTACH] View attachment 1858479

 

[393stroker]

Here`s a cave I found about 1 mile north of Angel Springs up the tributary canyon on the west side. It`s shaped like a T inside.