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Thread: New site?...with different clue versions?

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  1. #181
    us
    Jul 2011
    Gold canyon AZ
    452
    582 times
    Cache Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Real of Tayopa View Post
    The Jesuits in North America claimed to have done no mining, unlike their brethren in south America. The mission priest in North American that was rounded up, effectively did no mining, it was done by the Jesuit co-adjuntors. They had many, many dore bars of th various metals, particularly Gold and Silver from you know what mines that were sent overland to Victorio Peak, and Cabillo Mtn, where they developed almacenes for holding until they could be sent down the Rio del Norte to Matamoros to a waiting Jesuit ship for transhipment to the Vatican. I have information that they also had some workings a in the Superstition, but that in from a not too reliable data. Yes, they could easily have had thhave worked the Superticion Mts.
    I recovered this from a site that I believe was base of operations, it is early 1700’sClick image for larger version. 

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    Real of Tayopa likes this.
    Some books are dangerous, not to be opened with impunity.
    Not everything that can be counted, counts
    Not everything that counts, can be counted

  2. #182
    Windrider

    Mar 2014
    572
    728 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Wayne, by what I have read they have not entered any mine yet. They plan on retrieval of samples if any are found.....
    What they have are surface samples of quartz. Does not say contained gold
    WE have some samples and it is white quartz, which was verified
    there are lots out there hal, even some that are Named by the Feds and State. (below post)
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    just like I have lots of rock horses out there
    Last edited by sailaway; Jun 11, 2019 at 10:24 PM.
    somehiker and Real of Tayopa like this.

  3. #183
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,279
    1977 times

    "Thunder God Statue...or Rock face....or Carving?"

    Interesting that your question went unanswered.
    Ask "are there any KNOWN (named) geological formations that resemble"... "Thunder Gods Statues, Rock Faces, or Carvings" in the Superstitions?"
    Lets see what we learn.

    Still, very curious question for a first post.


    Careful with the Arcana Exploration Site as its claims are unsupported and presentation far from scholarly.
    Which it deserves to be if correct.


    "The presence of Mexican mining activity, plus the archeological sculptures and other entities that are on site, are very significant because they support the narrative that the Apaches, the Mexicans (Peralta’s) and Jacob Waltz had been on the same mountain at different times and at the same, exact location."

    Intriguing.
    Prove it.

  4. #184
    ca
    May 2007
    3,511
    4493 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Hi Vic......where you been, and how are you doing these days ?
    Hal Croves and Real of Tayopa like this.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  5. #185
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,279
    1977 times
    Parenting.
    I am well and hope the same for you.

    Kind of you to ask.
    somehiker likes this.

  6. #186
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,184
    4976 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Croves View Post
    Interesting that your question went unanswered.
    Ask "are there any KNOWN (named) geological formations that resemble"... "Thunder Gods Statues, Rock Faces, or Carvings" in the Superstitions?"
    Lets see what we learn.

    Still, very curious question for a first post.


    Careful with the Arcana Exploration Site as its claims are unsupported and presentation far from scholarly.
    Which it deserves to be if correct.


    "The presence of Mexican mining activity, plus the archeological sculptures and other entities that are on site, are very significant because they support the narrative that the Apaches, the Mexicans (Peralta’s) and Jacob Waltz had been on the same mountain at different times and at the same, exact location."

    Intriguing.
    Prove it.
    welcome back hal croves
    Hal Croves and Real of Tayopa like this.

  7. #187
    us
    Sep 2010
    2,279
    1977 times
    Amazing to see these line listed together.
    And their sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    Here's just one list of clues I saved some time ago....with original sources listed.

    101 clues to the Lost Dutchman Mine

    1) There are three big peaks above the mine to the west. (Bark to Spangler)

    2) A north running canyon. (Waltz to Petrasch)

    3) The north running canyon is filled with potholes. (Gassler)

    4) There is a stone wall in a shelving cave near the mine. (Mitchell)

    5) The rays of the setting sun will shine into the tunnel mouth when the mine is open. (Mitchell)

    6) The vein runs 400 feet down the mountainside. (Waltz)

    7) Look for the shadow of Weavers Needle at 4 pm during the winter solstice. (Various)

    8) No cowboy will find my mine. (Waltz)

    9) Near the head of the gulch is an old stone cabin foundation directly opposite the mine. (Mitchell)

    10) The trail is monumented with two stones, one on top of the other. (Bark)

    11) Its high up, yet you have got to go down. (Deering to Chunning)

    12) Look for 3 boulders shaped like wickiups high up on the side of a mountain. (Apache woman to Scholey)

    13) Theres a spirit that sleeps near the mine 4 hours a day. (Apache Jack)

    14) A funnel-shaped pit (Various)

    15) There is a waterfall in the vicinity. (Robert Jacobs)

    16) Say John, you have to go through a hole. (Deering to Chunning)

    17) There is a symbol near the mine that contains a triangle, circle and crescent. (Diaz)

    18) I marked the place with a frying pan placed on the middle peak. (Waltz to Petrasch)

    19) There is a double pack horse trail that leads right up to the tunnel. (Herman Petrasch)

    20) One needs to climb up about 40 feet to see Weavers Needle to the south. (Waltz)

    21) Above the mine was a grassy ridge where we could leave the animals. (Waltz)

    22) There is a cross cut into the side of the ravine above the mine. (Robert Jacobs)

    23) Waltz covered the mine. He was afraid someone would notice it from the trail below or on the ridge across. (Aylor)

    24) The shaft was 75 feet deep made in the Mexican style with flailing walls. (Bicknell)

    25) Mine is on a well-terraced hill. Terraced like rice-paddies. (Peck)

    26) Dutchman is 69 steps back and down in a ravine only about 50' wide and 200' long shaped like a "Y". (Williams)

    27) Waltzs mine had an opening no bigger than a barrel. (Peck)

    28) Two pits at the mine about 75 feet deep and a like distance across the top . (Bark)

    29) Near the mine, perhaps covering the entrance, is a square rock with one elongated corner. (Peck)

    30) Look for a triangle of Rocks. (Jacobs)

    31) Just to one side of the mine is a square rock waist-high. (Williams)

    32) The gravestone was located 250-300 feet due south of the mine itself and designated a specific crevasse between large boulders that one has to pass to locate the mine. (Petrasch to Synbad)

    33) Three stones by themselves are the key to the mine. (Flores)

    34) There is a line between two peaks that bisect the shaft. (B Holmes)

    35) The hole is small and high up. (Yocum to Morrow)

    36) The mine is a rat hole. (Walter Dixon to Dwyer)

    37) Mine is on a little knob about 50 feet high at the very end of a peninsula. On this hill is a pile of rocksabout 10 feet away from the opening. (Erwin Ruth to Richard Peck)

    38) The soldiers reported the mine as being a very small open cut or trench. (Chuck Aylor)

    39) Go up out of a brushy canyon, over a flat and down into a pit. (Al Morrow)

    40) Cave near headwaters. Needed rope to get in. (Geronimos great-grand daughter)

    41) Tunnel opens onto a caynon floor. (Erwin Ruth)

    42) When you find the mine you will be lying on your belly like everyone else who was ever there. (Smitty to Richard Peck)

    43) All the old landmarks are still there. You can almost peek into the mine where the entrance has settled. The cave of hidden gold. (San Carlos Apaches 1965)

    44) Dutchman was getting gold from a creek bed. There was a shaft in the bottom of the wash. (Clay Worst to Richard Peck)

    45) Waltz described his mine as being high up, in an arroyo, and hidden by the natural contours of the land. From over the top of a low ridge you could see down the far side where there was a small clearing, an open hole and a mine dump. (Herman Petrasch)

    46) The mine is so cunningly concealed that one could walk within a few feet and miss it. (Waltz)

    47) On the steep slope 100 feet above them they spied two Indians breaking rock. (Waltz to Julia Thomas)

    48) I had to climb up a small hill from the mine entrance to see the Needle. (Waltz)

    49) Its less than two miles from Weavers Needle toward the Salt River. (Phipps to Storm)

    50) Weavers Needle was nearby in plain sight. (Apache boys to Barry Storm)

    51) Weavers Needle, Four Peaks, a river and the horses head could be seen from the mine. (Al Morrow)

    52) The mine was on a twelve foot high ledge, the mine was an open hole and the mine was on the apex of a ridge.

    53) The mine is close to a cave and is high up on a ledge. Petrasch spent years searching the canyons looking for a cave or an opening high up. (Richard Peck)

    54) Waltz mine is on a twelve foot high shelf. (Synbad)

    55) Near the mine is a face that looks right at the mine. (Storm)

    56) A Sphinx overhangs and dominates the mine area. (John Reed)

    57) Waltz told of a natural stone face sitting upon the end of a canyon below his mine. (Storm)

    58) Up above the mine was a cliff like a horses head with one ear laid back. (Storm)

    59) The mine was in a northerly direction from a sharp peak. (Aaron Mason)

    60) The mine is right out in the open,. You could walk right over it and not know you were there. (John Spangler)

    61) About 20 steps above a spring is the Dutchmans mine. ( Williams)

    62) Mine is located near three natural water tanks in a canyon, one below the other, a short distance from the mine. (Indian to B Holmes)

    63) Mine is near the head of a gulch. There is a small spring there with sufficient water for household use. (Aylor)

    64) 39 steps to agua. 69 stepd to the mine. (Ruths Eagle Head Map)

    65) Mine is in a draw that is well hidden. (Jacobs)

    66) The mine lies in the middle of two oblong outcrops that run north south and are above the waterfall. (Stevens)

    67) The mine is located in a ravine on the side of a canyon wall. (Conatser)

    68) In a steep climbing arroyo high on a mountainside. (Morrow)

    69) The mine is in a cave, but the entrance is sealed. (Diaz)

    70) Gold buried in a cave in the Superstitions. (Geronimo to soldier at Ft Sill)

    71) Indians always spoke about a cave. Mention the mine and they would say, no, the cave. Cave at base of cliff in a little canyon. (Peck)

    72) Ruth described the junction of two canyons, one running north south flanked by high cliffs on either side. The other was brushy and came in from the east. Above this canyon junction Ruth expected to find a Spanish marker which would show him the trail. (Storm)

    73) If you pass the three red hills you have gone too far. (Waltz)

    74) There is a tunnel on the side of the hill and a pit above past the three red hills. (John Kochera)

    75) The mine is above a brushy boulder choked little canyon. (Walter Gassler)

    76) Trail goes up past a long draw from west end of the south side of the range, down past a cliff into a canyon leading to the river. Take the first right hand canyon out on a flat area, then climb to the pit. (John Walker)

    77) Mine is on a steep slope under the lip of a cliff. (Tommy Wise)

    78) Mine was on a hillside. (Sims Ely)

    79) The logs covering the shaft were set at an angle to conform to the slope of the terrain. (Walter Dixon)

    80) The ruins of the rock house did not have a roof. (Weiss)

    81) There are four spires above the mine, three tall ones and one smaller. (Spangler)

    82) The tunnel entrance is supposed to be shaped like a bell. (Waltz to Thomas)

    83) You cant approach the mine from above or below, but have to enter from the side. (Waltz)

    84) No miner will find my mine. (Waltz)

    85) Theres a trick in the trail. You have to go through a hole. (Joe Deering)

    86) I placed a monument near the mine and then placed four similar monuments in the canyon below. (Deering to Chunning)

    87) You have to work your way down a water crevasse. The approach to the mine is dangerous. (Weiser)

    88)There was a dangerous foot path down to the mine. (Peralta)

    89) The area where the mine was located was all broken up. (Ballesteros)

    90) 200 feet across from the cave. (Adolph Ruth)

    91) Deering said the hole you go thru was "in a rock". (Chunning to Barkley)

    92) Mine was a volcanic vent . (Sims Ely)

    93) Salazars survey objective was to find a cave with a wall and three red hills. (Livingston)

    94) One went down on a rope or ladder, the other two stayed up above. (Granillo)

    95) When asked about landmarks from the mine entrance Brownie Holmes hesitated and said "You will see nothing. Only space."

    96) The Mexicans always posted a sentry in a brushy canyon below the mine. He could not see, but could always hear, the miners.

    97) There was a little bit of brush on the slope above the mine. (Reed)

    98) We will throw a stick of dynamite into the opening because of the trap. (B Holmes)

    99) Once the rock house was found one would go back down the canyon checking the west side of the canyon wall. Once he found the ___________ he would then find the ___________ and .......................

    I can't really vouch for any of them.....but who knows ?
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  8. #188
    ca
    May 2007
    3,511
    4493 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    "Wayne, by what I have read they have not entered any mine yet. They plan on retrieval of samples if any are found.....
    What they have are surface samples of quartz. Does not say contained gold"


    On their "clue 18" page, sailaway, they make several claims to having already found THE mine.
    Without having been inside, and having LDM gold in hand, it's probably premature to say that.....regardless of any future plans.
    It puts arcana into the same category as so many individuals and groups who have also made the claim.
    Which doesn't mean we shouldn't help with advice on how to go about getting and sharing credible proof.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  9. #189

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    S.....for Spencer

    Why do you think there are 18 dots...evenly spaced along the "trail" on the two map stones.
    Do you think they represent cairns (piles of rock) visible at an equal distance from each other, or something else?
    Hey, Wayne Since [I] did not use those in any way (the 18 dots) to find the mine I have not spent much time researching that yet. I have used other information that I have found to be relevant off the stones. That being said is my belief is that were most likely monument markers along the trail, likely Jesuit, likely all gone (or most) and that they led you up to the point of the witch priest stone. At the point of the priest stone, it then is the trail's end and the path starts leading you the canyon. So far we have discovered at least 5 path markers leading forward and up.

    On the path up we have found 5 trial markers chiseled into rock surfaces, they are more than just little scratches and done by someone who was a craftsman, making me believe they are possibly Jesuit.in origin. Also Wayne the ones at the start of the path you really have to look to find, or you will miss them, the higher up you get the more visible they get. They are quite remarkable. Two other things the middle of the path has collapsed, which I have previously stated so I feel that there may be some more markers down below. Also, there are no two markers exactly alike. Also after the next post on the site, which will probably be later this week or early next week, --- the following post I will show one of the arrow markers, that will be in about 2-3 weeks it will raise some eyebrows. I would like to say more about them but I need to hold off, it is to easy to share and I have an obligation an I have to honor that.

    Wayne the dagger trail stone has below the dagger an arrow that the map maker has made different than all the other arrows it appears to be in movement, what is your take on that.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  10. #190
    ca
    May 2007
    3,511
    4493 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Below the dagger ?

    Where ?
    Real of Tayopa likes this.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  11. #191

    Jan 2014
    1,669
    3126 times
    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    Although Jeff hasn't answered my previous question, I would suggest that if they have obtained any samples of gold ore from the mine they found, that they send you a couple that you can use your XRF unit on. Or they could try and get down for the Rendezvous and have you do the testing there. Whatever the results, I'm sure they would be interesting.
    I'm loving this XRF gun. It doesn't only quantify metallic composition, but also seems to make the trolls disappear.
    Hal Croves and Real of Tayopa like this.

  12. #192

    Jan 2014
    1,669
    3126 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Hal Croves View Post
    Interesting that your question went unanswered.
    Ask "are there any KNOWN (named) geological formations that resemble"... "Thunder Gods Statues, Rock Faces, or Carvings" in the Superstitions?"
    Lets see what we learn.

    Still, very curious question for a first post.


    Careful with the Arcana Exploration Site as its claims are unsupported and presentation far from scholarly.
    Which it deserves to be if correct.


    "The presence of Mexican mining activity, plus the archeological sculptures and other entities that are on site, are very significant because they support the narrative that the Apaches, the Mexicans (Peralta’s) and Jacob Waltz had been on the same mountain at different times and at the same, exact location."

    Intriguing.
    Prove it.
    Welcome back, Hal.
    Hal Croves and Real of Tayopa like this.

  13. #193

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Wayne after ready Hals post I think I am going to take a break, I am spending way too much time on this site even though it has been fine and informative at times. After reading Hals post, I am disgusted and tired. Evidently, he thinks you do not have the right to be in the Supers unless you have Ph.D. Hell I guess Old Salvador Deagleo better watch his step, hick he had to have his wife text me his number. You know what he is smarter than half the professors, I had at CSCC. At least he knows where the rubber meets the road. " Hal interesting prove it" not to you Hal. And that is what we are doing and it will culminate in our book not here. I came on here with good intentions, and every time I get to point where I have to hold something in reserve I get the prove it not here guys. When I ma 72, and I get the skepticism, but really people just need to chill and wait, and let us share going forward. anyway, Wayne you and Pot Belly take care. Thanks for the help you have given. Jeff.
    i

  14. #194

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Wayne one other thing I think I told you I have severe Dyslexia and read and write backwards so if I did not tell you sorry for the poor writing if I recheck 5 or 6 times I can catch it, I just do not do that here, not enough hours in the day. Take care, Jeff. One last thing somebody said something about drones, we have not Flown a drone in 3 years, that was when they changed the regulations when we last flew we were compliant, and we really do not to fly it anymore it served its purpose. Our lawyer has checked and everything put into place.
    Real of Tayopa likes this.

  15. #195
    Windrider

    Mar 2014
    572
    728 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    So your drone footage is time and date stamped on the footage? If not its your word against the Feds and you know who wins that one?
    Resetting file date on a computer file will not prove anything, has to be on the recording itself. Thing is even before the wording came out about drones themselves, it was illegal to use any motorized vehicle before you even started hunting in AZ by the information I saw.
    https://wildernesswatch.org/newsroom/releases.html
    Wilderness Act of 1964 specifically states no motorized vehicles or aircraft.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Drones fall under the no motorized equipment law, so you had a drone prior to 1964?
    Next question: How many people will be in your party on the next outing? this includes support staff and all.
    Next thing I notice that there are firearms being worn in your pictures when in the commission of State and Federal Crimes.
    Then how are you going to obtain samples of minerals while out there? breaking rocks? if so you are violating state law
    https://geology.com/minerals/legal-a...ck-collecting/
    https://azstateparks.com/archaeological-site-etiquette
    By your own words you have made claims to the site being archaeological, so even picking up a rock is a violation, moving anything even just to look under it is a violation.
    Are you ready to get on a plane and come to the Tonto National Wilderness now?
    It would then end with you not being able to publish your book, as it is illegal to publish material about your crimes for profit.
    18 U.S.C.S. § 3681
    Citation: ARIZ. REV. STAT. § 13-4202
    History: Enacted in 1978.TITLE 13. CRIMINAL CODE
    CHAPTER 38. MISCELLANEOUS
    ARTICLE 27. CRIME VICTIM ACCOUNTS
    A.R.S. § 13-4202 (2012)

    § 13-4202. Void contracts; crime victim accounts; establishment; notice to victims; exceptions; civil liability; definition

    A. Every contract whether written or oral, express or implied, with an accused with respect to the reenactment, description or depiction of a crime by movie, book, article, radio or television presentation, internet or on-line presentation or depiction, live entertainment or expression of thoughts, feelings, opinions or emotions is contrary to public policy and void unless the contract provides for payment to the commission of any monies which would be paid to the accused for such information or rights.
    Last edited by sailaway; Jun 12, 2019 at 08:30 AM.

 

 
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