Welcome guest, is this your first visit?
Member
Discoveries
 
Page 3 of 20 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 289
Like Tree423Likes

Thread: New site?...with different clue versions?

« Prev Thread | Next Thread »
  1. #31
    ca
    May 2007
    3,511
    4493 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    And there's the problem with "clues". Interesting to consider, but the various "sources" of these clues are problematic at best.

    No wonder people pick and choose what clues they think are valid, in order to justify their own search, or site. At any rate, best of luck in your search, and thanks for posting.

    Take care, Jim
    Here's just one list of clues I saved some time ago....with original sources listed.

    101 clues to the Lost Dutchman Mine

    1) There are three big peaks above the mine to the west. (Bark to Spangler)

    2) A north running canyon. (Waltz to Petrasch)

    3) The north running canyon is filled with potholes. (Gassler)

    4) There is a stone wall in a shelving cave near the mine. (Mitchell)

    5) The rays of the setting sun will shine into the tunnel mouth when the mine is open. (Mitchell)

    6) The vein runs 400 feet down the mountainside. (Waltz)

    7) Look for the shadow of Weavers Needle at 4 pm during the winter solstice. (Various)

    8) No cowboy will find my mine. (Waltz)

    9) Near the head of the gulch is an old stone cabin foundation directly opposite the mine. (Mitchell)

    10) The trail is monumented with two stones, one on top of the other. (Bark)

    11) Its high up, yet you have got to go down. (Deering to Chunning)

    12) Look for 3 boulders shaped like wickiups high up on the side of a mountain. (Apache woman to Scholey)

    13) Theres a spirit that sleeps near the mine 4 hours a day. (Apache Jack)

    14) A funnel-shaped pit (Various)

    15) There is a waterfall in the vicinity. (Robert Jacobs)

    16) Say John, you have to go through a hole. (Deering to Chunning)

    17) There is a symbol near the mine that contains a triangle, circle and crescent. (Diaz)

    18) I marked the place with a frying pan placed on the middle peak. (Waltz to Petrasch)

    19) There is a double pack horse trail that leads right up to the tunnel. (Herman Petrasch)

    20) One needs to climb up about 40 feet to see Weavers Needle to the south. (Waltz)

    21) Above the mine was a grassy ridge where we could leave the animals. (Waltz)

    22) There is a cross cut into the side of the ravine above the mine. (Robert Jacobs)

    23) Waltz covered the mine. He was afraid someone would notice it from the trail below or on the ridge across. (Aylor)

    24) The shaft was 75 feet deep made in the Mexican style with flailing walls. (Bicknell)

    25) Mine is on a well-terraced hill. Terraced like rice-paddies. (Peck)

    26) Dutchman is 69 steps back and down in a ravine only about 50' wide and 200' long shaped like a "Y". (Williams)

    27) Waltzs mine had an opening no bigger than a barrel. (Peck)

    28) Two pits at the mine about 75 feet deep and a like distance across the top . (Bark)

    29) Near the mine, perhaps covering the entrance, is a square rock with one elongated corner. (Peck)

    30) Look for a triangle of Rocks. (Jacobs)

    31) Just to one side of the mine is a square rock waist-high. (Williams)

    32) The gravestone was located 250-300 feet due south of the mine itself and designated a specific crevasse between large boulders that one has to pass to locate the mine. (Petrasch to Synbad)

    33) Three stones by themselves are the key to the mine. (Flores)

    34) There is a line between two peaks that bisect the shaft. (B Holmes)

    35) The hole is small and high up. (Yocum to Morrow)

    36) The mine is a rat hole. (Walter Dixon to Dwyer)

    37) Mine is on a little knob about 50 feet high at the very end of a peninsula. On this hill is a pile of rocksabout 10 feet away from the opening. (Erwin Ruth to Richard Peck)

    38) The soldiers reported the mine as being a very small open cut or trench. (Chuck Aylor)

    39) Go up out of a brushy canyon, over a flat and down into a pit. (Al Morrow)

    40) Cave near headwaters. Needed rope to get in. (Geronimos great-grand daughter)

    41) Tunnel opens onto a caynon floor. (Erwin Ruth)

    42) When you find the mine you will be lying on your belly like everyone else who was ever there. (Smitty to Richard Peck)

    43) All the old landmarks are still there. You can almost peek into the mine where the entrance has settled. The cave of hidden gold. (San Carlos Apaches 1965)

    44) Dutchman was getting gold from a creek bed. There was a shaft in the bottom of the wash. (Clay Worst to Richard Peck)

    45) Waltz described his mine as being high up, in an arroyo, and hidden by the natural contours of the land. From over the top of a low ridge you could see down the far side where there was a small clearing, an open hole and a mine dump. (Herman Petrasch)

    46) The mine is so cunningly concealed that one could walk within a few feet and miss it. (Waltz)

    47) On the steep slope 100 feet above them they spied two Indians breaking rock. (Waltz to Julia Thomas)

    48) I had to climb up a small hill from the mine entrance to see the Needle. (Waltz)

    49) Its less than two miles from Weavers Needle toward the Salt River. (Phipps to Storm)

    50) Weavers Needle was nearby in plain sight. (Apache boys to Barry Storm)

    51) Weavers Needle, Four Peaks, a river and the horses head could be seen from the mine. (Al Morrow)

    52) The mine was on a twelve foot high ledge, the mine was an open hole and the mine was on the apex of a ridge.

    53) The mine is close to a cave and is high up on a ledge. Petrasch spent years searching the canyons looking for a cave or an opening high up. (Richard Peck)

    54) Waltz mine is on a twelve foot high shelf. (Synbad)

    55) Near the mine is a face that looks right at the mine. (Storm)

    56) A Sphinx overhangs and dominates the mine area. (John Reed)

    57) Waltz told of a natural stone face sitting upon the end of a canyon below his mine. (Storm)

    58) Up above the mine was a cliff like a horses head with one ear laid back. (Storm)

    59) The mine was in a northerly direction from a sharp peak. (Aaron Mason)

    60) The mine is right out in the open,. You could walk right over it and not know you were there. (John Spangler)

    61) About 20 steps above a spring is the Dutchmans mine. ( Williams)

    62) Mine is located near three natural water tanks in a canyon, one below the other, a short distance from the mine. (Indian to B Holmes)

    63) Mine is near the head of a gulch. There is a small spring there with sufficient water for household use. (Aylor)

    64) 39 steps to agua. 69 stepd to the mine. (Ruths Eagle Head Map)

    65) Mine is in a draw that is well hidden. (Jacobs)

    66) The mine lies in the middle of two oblong outcrops that run north south and are above the waterfall. (Stevens)

    67) The mine is located in a ravine on the side of a canyon wall. (Conatser)

    68) In a steep climbing arroyo high on a mountainside. (Morrow)

    69) The mine is in a cave, but the entrance is sealed. (Diaz)

    70) Gold buried in a cave in the Superstitions. (Geronimo to soldier at Ft Sill)

    71) Indians always spoke about a cave. Mention the mine and they would say, no, the cave. Cave at base of cliff in a little canyon. (Peck)

    72) Ruth described the junction of two canyons, one running north south flanked by high cliffs on either side. The other was brushy and came in from the east. Above this canyon junction Ruth expected to find a Spanish marker which would show him the trail. (Storm)

    73) If you pass the three red hills you have gone too far. (Waltz)

    74) There is a tunnel on the side of the hill and a pit above past the three red hills. (John Kochera)

    75) The mine is above a brushy boulder choked little canyon. (Walter Gassler)

    76) Trail goes up past a long draw from west end of the south side of the range, down past a cliff into a canyon leading to the river. Take the first right hand canyon out on a flat area, then climb to the pit. (John Walker)

    77) Mine is on a steep slope under the lip of a cliff. (Tommy Wise)

    78) Mine was on a hillside. (Sims Ely)

    79) The logs covering the shaft were set at an angle to conform to the slope of the terrain. (Walter Dixon)

    80) The ruins of the rock house did not have a roof. (Weiss)

    81) There are four spires above the mine, three tall ones and one smaller. (Spangler)

    82) The tunnel entrance is supposed to be shaped like a bell. (Waltz to Thomas)

    83) You cant approach the mine from above or below, but have to enter from the side. (Waltz)

    84) No miner will find my mine. (Waltz)

    85) Theres a trick in the trail. You have to go through a hole. (Joe Deering)

    86) I placed a monument near the mine and then placed four similar monuments in the canyon below. (Deering to Chunning)

    87) You have to work your way down a water crevasse. The approach to the mine is dangerous. (Weiser)

    88)There was a dangerous foot path down to the mine. (Peralta)

    89) The area where the mine was located was all broken up. (Ballesteros)

    90) 200 feet across from the cave. (Adolph Ruth)

    91) Deering said the hole you go thru was "in a rock". (Chunning to Barkley)

    92) Mine was a volcanic vent . (Sims Ely)

    93) Salazars survey objective was to find a cave with a wall and three red hills. (Livingston)

    94) One went down on a rope or ladder, the other two stayed up above. (Granillo)

    95) When asked about landmarks from the mine entrance Brownie Holmes hesitated and said "You will see nothing. Only space."

    96) The Mexicans always posted a sentry in a brushy canyon below the mine. He could not see, but could always hear, the miners.

    97) There was a little bit of brush on the slope above the mine. (Reed)

    98) We will throw a stick of dynamite into the opening because of the trap. (B Holmes)

    99) Once the rock house was found one would go back down the canyon checking the west side of the canyon wall. Once he found the ___________ he would then find the ___________ and .......................

    I can't really vouch for any of them.....but who knows ?
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  2. #32
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    419
    1260 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    SH,

    Let's add to that list

    There are almost 160 pages of clues in Treasure Tales of the Superstitions (Dr. Glover)

    I know you're familiar with it, just posting for people who haven't seen it. Undoubtedly the most in-depth discussion of LDM clues I've seen ever, anywhere. Included is a similar list of clues/sources to the one you've posted above, but that particular list only covered about 3 pages of 160.

    Take care, Jim
    davin, Dirt1955 and dredgernaut like this.

  3. #33
    ca
    May 2007
    3,511
    4493 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Nope.....don't have that one.
    I've probably seen the list at one time or another though, since I used to borrow the odd book about the LDM from the local library. Even though I've never been caught up in that legend as much as others have been.
    Don't have very many in my collection for reference, since I was always more inclined to spend my cash on being out there, rather than reading about others who had .
    Last edited by somehiker; Jun 02, 2019 at 04:05 PM.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  4. #34

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    And there's the problem with "clues". Interesting to consider, but the various "sources" of these clues are problematic at best.

    No wonder people pick and choose what clues they think are valid, in order to justify their own search, or site. At any rate, best of luck in your search, and thanks for posting.

    Take care, Jim
    Potbelly Thank you for that input, Waltz may not have said that exactly, but I believe I have seen that in one of 42 books I have read, I will see if I can find which book that was. I will address that on our site. I understand what saddle refers to as far as a formed feature on a ridge or mountain top. So I will correct that on our site. However, if you take the things he may have stated no one really knows for sure. But I will state we are seeing what is there and how the clues have come to us over the years and many are pieces of a bigger picture that plays out before you when you are on the site. What I am trying to say is I read that clue and the different versions and I am stating what we said and I must have said, not what fits our narrative. You will see next year when the book comes, Jim please remember this conversation and feedback next year when the book comes out and you will understand only then why I might have subconsciously written it that way. I stand by what we are seeing at the site he and that Waltz would have camped above a horses saddle, I will say no more about that but will make a correction in an upcoming post and change the exact wording. We stand by he camped above the horse's saddle.(only we are stating that) also in the last three years, we have been on the mountain for 46 days. As you hike down the canyon floor other than not falling into cactus and deep sand in your boots it is not too bad, but as soon as you start to go up it is the worst piece of dangerous scarry gnarley place and the 2x that. Thanks, Jeff.
    PotBelly Jim likes this.

  5. #35
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    419
    1260 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by arcana-exploration View Post
    Potbelly Thank you for that input, Waltz may not have said that exactly, but I believe I have seen that in one of 42 books I have read, I will see if I can find which book that was. I will address that on our site. I understand what saddle refers to as far as a formed feature on a ridge or mountain top. So I will correct that on our site. However, if you take the things he may have stated no one really knows for sure. But I will state we are seeing what is there and how the clues have come to us over the years and many are pieces of a bigger picture that plays out before you when you are on the site. What I am trying to say is I read that clue and the different versions and I am stating what we said and I must have said, not what fits our narrative. You will see next year when the book comes, Jim please remember this conversation and feedback next year when the book comes out and you will understand only then why I might have subconsciously written it that way. I stand by what we are seeing at the site he and that Waltz would have camped above a horses saddle, I will say no more about that but will make a correction in an upcoming post and change the exact wording. We stand by he camped above the horse's saddle.(only we are stating that) also in the last three years, we have been on the mountain for 46 days. As you hike down the canyon floor other than not falling into cactus and deep sand in your boots it is not too bad, but as soon as you start to go up it is the worst piece of dangerous scarry gnarley place and the 2x that. Thanks, Jeff.
    Jeff, not saying what you do is right or wrong...just pointing out that separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to clues, and comparing them to your site/theory is going to be a difficult if not impossible task. You will probably find yourself validating or invalidating clues based on your own standards and observations.

    Whether or not you get the clues "exactly right" when posting about them is something I'd encourage you to try to get right, and if not, to correct them, as you have done.

    I like reading about treasure hunters and their searches (I'm not a TH, just like reading about actual searches, and stories from the old-timers). One thing I've observed is TH'ers make one, or at most a few, big finds in an entire life of searching. Most guys don't find what they're looking for. I like reading about those searches too.

    SH: Point taken. EDIT: (Yes that's me)

    Take care, Jim
    Last edited by PotBelly Jim; Jun 02, 2019 at 04:29 PM.
    davin and deducer like this.

  6. #36

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by PotBelly Jim View Post
    Jeff, not saying what you do is right or wrong...just pointing out that separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to clues, and comparing them to your site/theory is going to be a difficult if not impossible task. You will probably find yourself validating or invalidating clues based on your own standards and observations.

    Whether or not you get the clues "exactly right" when posting about them is something I'd encourage you to try to get right, and if not, to correct them, as you have done.

    I like reading about treasure hunters and their searches (I'm not a TH, just like reading about actual searches, and stories from the old-timers). One thing I've observed is TH'ers make one, or at most a few, big finds in an entire life of searching. Most guys don't find what they're looking for. I like reading about those searches too.

    SH: Point taken. EDIT: (Yes that's me)

    Take care, Jim
    THANKS

    Thanks, Potbelly your an alright guy. One thing I do in the book, but do not overdo is tell about our team and the guys and as unlikely as it is our story how 5 everyday guys end up in the Superstition Mountains, and in that chapter cover some the Dutch hunters past and present but more from a personal, point of view not who found what but what they found in life that the Supers gave them along the way. Have a great week Potbelly. Thank you Jeff.
    PotBelly Jim likes this.

  7. #37

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    STONE hOUSE cLUES

    [QUOTE=arcana-exploration;6204722]THANKS

    Thanks, Potbelly your an alright guy. One thing I do in the book, but do not overdo is tell about our team and the guys and as unlikely as it is our story how 5 everyday guys end up in the Superstition Mountains, and in that chapter cover some the Dutch hunters past and present but more from a personal, point of view not who found what but what they found in life that the Supers gave them along the way. Have a great week Potbelly. Thank you, Jeff.

  8. #38
    us
    Dec 2008
    2,184
    4976 times
    [QUOTE=arcana-exploration;6204724]
    Quote Originally Posted by arcana-exploration View Post
    THANKS

    Thanks, Potbelly your an alright guy. One thing I do in the book, but do not overdo is tell about our team and the guys and as unlikely as it is our story how 5 everyday guys end up in the Superstition Mountains, and in that chapter cover some the Dutch hunters past and present but more from a personal, point of view not who found what but what they found in life that the Supers gave them along the way. Have a great week Potbelly. Thank you, Jeff.
    i've said this 450,000 times before but here it is once more..nobody really knows what waltz said....all of these clues floating around probably came after waltz death...the only person that might (and i said might) have known what waltz said was herman petrash....and to my knowledge he only told one person what he knew....
    PotBelly Jim and dredgernaut like this.

  9. #39

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    STONE hOUSE cLUES

    [QUOTE=arcana-exploration;6204724]
    Quote Originally Posted by arcana-exploration View Post
    THANKS

    Thanks, Potbelly your an alright guy. One thing I do in the book, but do not overdo is tell about our team and the guys and as unlikely as it is our story how 5 everyday guys end up in the Superstition Mountains, and in that chapter cover some the Dutch hunters past and present but more from a personal, point of view not who found what but what they found in life that the Supers gave them along the way. Have a great week Potbelly. Thank you, Jeff.
    Thanks, AZDAVE, That is is a great point never the less, but I need to be spot on when talking about clues as the wording is beat know. Subconsciously being capable of seeing what he actually was looking at I put the known interpretation into the brain and came out with mostly might have said. And I stand by the wording saddle above the horse. However, that was brain slip and I should not have said that way unless I clarified it. So I will address that on our site. One very important thing I have not mentioned and that is actually the icing on the cake to our knowledge that we have the correct location is the Peralta Stones and at least 2 of the most credible maps that they actually take you there and it is not some wiggly lines on the horizon but rather, odd physical features at the site that at first I did not understand, and they will not peoples socks off because there can be absolutely no mistake of there intent. Please do not ask which ones other than the Stones which I already mentioned.

    Thanks ARZDV.

  10. #40
    ca
    May 2007
    3,511
    4493 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Has your team been able to make the 5th trip back to Arizona and your site location yet ?
    As I believe you have said was your plan.
    Last edited by somehiker; Jun 03, 2019 at 04:01 AM.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  11. #41

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Wayne thank you for asking not as yet but it will be soon, before the end of the year. because this will be our longest trip in duration time, it is a bit of work to get all of the people involved scheduled for the same time slot. also to be honest we have done this so far on our own dime, or dimes if you will. Since this trip is going to be the most involved and the most expensive, we need to procure some assistance in that area, which will do. On previous trips, most of the time was spent on ways to get up to mine, the original, route is a no go. We did that and got up there-there, but there are area's adjacent and above the mine that we have not yet reached yet. On our last trip, we established an alternate route to get to those area's but we ran out of time and one of the areas we need the two pro-mountain climbers to secure the route for our guys. Last, let me say, there is other historically important stuff up there, I need to shut my trap and say no more of that for now. Thank you, Jeff.

  12. #42
    Charter Member
    us
    Dec 2017
    419
    1260 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Jeff, best of luck with your search, and your book. Just pointing out, not every story has to end with a found treasure. One of the best ones I’ve ever read was Steve Clark’s “New Mexico Confidential”. (Steve is on this site pretty regularly) He didn’t find Jerry Hare’s lost treasure, but the story of how he went about looking is pretty good. You might want to check it out.

    Whether intentional or not, from the list of clues you talk about/verify on your site, the general if not specific area you’re in might be fairly obvious to most folks here.

    Take care, Jim
    Ryano and Dirt1955 like this.

  13. #43
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,090
    4790 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Jeff

    I believe the Arcana team is the first who approached the LDM from below. All the known Waltz clues say how the only way is from above.
    IMO, if there would be a different way to approach the mines site, at least one clue would mentioned it.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart,you will never go wrong.The truth is the truth,no matter how you look at it,and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth . It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  14. #44

    May 2019
    71
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Potbelly anything is posable. The Supers have dozens of places that people have walked by or under and not realized what they just walked by. One of our guys is a hell of a hunter tracker and the first time he checked to see if anybody had been there, other than game signs. Also when we left he set natural things in place to see if someone had been there between trips, he said no one had been up there in a long time. I feel that some time in the past has been up. Two things 1. you could be up there and not know where the Alpha mine is. 2. I am sure what I have put together as far as the maps and the stones most likely have not been figured out by anyone else, I could be wrong, but I think not. My guys are really smart two, in particular, they will kill me for saying but they have very high IQs, they are sure we have it, but tell me that vetting the maps is just as amazing as finding the place. I cannot be concerned with speculating who or has not been up there, I will address that on our site. When the time comes there will 40or fifty guys come out and say hay I knew all that I was just protecting it, hell I had been up there a dozen times Hell I knew that horse was gonna win the Kentucky Derby .. oh really show me your winning ticket ... oh I didn't bet on him I bet on another horse, but I knew your horse was gonna win. I am sure there have trudged along on the canyon floor below the site, maybe even been up part way, but did not figure it out. That "minner" and the "mine" were nothing more than two shipings passing in the night. Thanks Potbelly

  15. #45

    Aug 2017
    8
    27 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Foundation or ruin, sometimes the german language can help. Maybe Waltz used the word "Grundmauern". A word which has the first meaning "foundation", the walls in or with relation to the ground. But it has a common use and established term in relation with ruins too, because often the Gundmauern are the last viewable remains. Something can burn down to Grundmauern. Both english translations are not impossible.

 

 
Page 3 of 20 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Remove Ads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Found at a colonial site...haven't got a clue
    By RelicMedic in forum What Is It?
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: May 14, 2019, 12:03 PM
  2. Replies: 6
    Last Post: Dec 13, 2015, 06:23 PM
  3. another clue to help date my site
    By jerseyben in forum What Is It?
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Mar 16, 2012, 08:07 PM
  4. GLORIA! 3 Versions...
    By DD-777 in forum Music
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: Jan 13, 2009, 08:08 PM
  5. shipwreck site findings...Any clue?
    By Chagy in forum What Is It?
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Sep 08, 2006, 08:13 PM
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.3.0