Both sides of Stone Maps Argument
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  1. #1
    us
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    Both sides of Stone Maps Argument

    Because I have spent so many years researching the history of the Stone Maps, I can effectively argue either side of the issue. So here we go:


    TRAVIS CARVED THEM AND THEY ARE ALL HIS DOING


    When Frank and Ryan were in Texas, they had family members that stated they personally witnessed Travis carving the Stone maps. Hearing this and seeing the pictures of Travis' other stone carvings is pretty strong evidence for them being fakes. The fact that the Stone Maps are almost exact copies of "The Ground Map" is even more evidence of them being made by Travis, because the ground map does not in any way look authentic.

    It is entirely possible that Travis carved the Stone Maps and kept them (mostly) a secret for many years. I believe that if he did this, he also carved the Stone Crosses and the Latin Heart (and maybe many more as yet to be found). That way, he would wait for the other stuff to be found before publicly unveiling the Stone Maps, because it would help their provenance, and make them many times more valuable than if he just said he found them.

    I think it was Tom Kollenborn that said he knew the exact spot whomever designed the Stone Maps sat and made the drawings (which mountaintop).



    TRAVIS FOUND THE ORIGINAL SET OF STONE MAPS


    First, Travis' daughter Janie, told me with ZERO EQUIVOCATION that her dad was in NO WAY part of any hoax!

    Next, imagine that you are the Tumlinson Family. How many erstwhile Treasure Hunters, Authors, and Historians have contacted them over the years wanting to know every detail about Travis and the Stone Maps. Every time the Stone Maps were in the news (i.e. Life Magazine), a new set of people would track them down, call and write them. With probably a good many of them demanding to know about the Stone Maps. How many people on this forum alone have we seen demand people give them information? I have seen it many times. People can be downright a-holes! What would be the quickest way to get rid of all those pests? Tell them "I saw Travis carve the Stone Maps. They are fakes!" Makes you think.....huh?

    Now, I have said for many years, that I don't pay much attention to what people say. I look closely at their actions. How they act. That is a true clue to a persons motives and feelings.

    Travis had the maps from about 1949 until his death in 1961. There is no evidence that he ever tried to sell them to anyone. He did display them at the gas station and charge people to look at them. While his Uncle Robert was in possession of the Stone Maps from 1956 until about 1959 or so, he kept them in boxes under his bed. He would sit at a bar and tell people he would find a treasure one day. He did it so often, they nicknamed him "Hardrock Tumlinson". He told his landlord about the Stone Maps, and rather than try to sell them to him, he got the landlord to fund several trips to the Superstitions from Oregon to try and solve them. So obviously Robert believed they were authentic treasure maps. Would Travis REALLY let his UNCLE waste all that time and money if he knew they were fakes? Quien Sabe? When Travis thought he was recovering from the cancer, he had to pull a gun on his uncle to get his Stone Maps back. It was so bad that Robert only found out in 1965 that Travis had died in 1961! He found out from one of Dick Peck's Private Investigators.

    Clarence O. Mitchell must have believed in their authenticity, because he paid Aileen Tumlinson $1200 for the Stone Maps after Travis died. $1200 was a princely sum in 1961, when the average yearly wage was about $4000!

    ..........and speaking of Dick Peck. Let us remember when his investigator Elbert Love wrote that he had interviewed one of Travis' close friends in Oregon. This friend (I don't remember his name) said that most nights they would sit outside together. Travis would bring out the Trail Stones. He would sit and stick his finger in the big hole in the Lower Trail Stone and say "If I could only figure out where that is......I would be a millionaire!" Doesn't sound like someone pulling a hoax, does it?

    Buuuuut, the family members may indeed have seen Travis carving the Stone Maps. could they tell for certain if they were the originals, or was Travis making a set of copies? Also, Travis himself stated that he added some things to the Stone Maps in case someone stole them. Is that what his relatives saw? When he was sitting with his friend, he wasn't fingering the heart at the end of the trail, he was fingering the big hole in the mountain on the Lower Trail Stone! More to chew on!

    Mike
    Last edited by gollum; Jun 18, 2019 at 09:41 PM.
    "You wouldn't like me when I'm mad, because I back up my rage with hard facts and logic!" - The Credible Hulk

    "Where do they teach you to post like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here."

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

  2. #2
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2011
    Gold canyon AZ
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    Excellent research, as usual Mike,
    Hal Croves and Oroblanco like this.
    time for another drink

  3. #3
    us
    Nov 2011
    Jamestown ND
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    Old Jesuits and Spainish Mines
    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    Because I have spent so many years researching the history of the Stone Maps, I can effectively argue either side of the issue. So here we go:


    TRAVIS CARVED THEM AND THEY ARE ALL HIS DOING


    When Frank and Ryan were in Texas, they had family members that stated they personally witnessed Travis carving the Stone maps. Hearing this and seeing the pictures of Travis' other stone carvings is pretty strong evidence for them being fakes. The fact that the Stone Maps are almost exact copies of "The Ground Map" is even more evidence of them being made by Travis, because the ground map does not in any way look authentic.

    It is entirely possible that Travis carved the Stone Maps and kept them (mostly) a secret for many years. I believe that if he did this, he also carved the Stone Crosses and the Latin Heart (and maybe many more as yet to be found). That way, he would wait for the other stuff to be found before publicly unveiling the Stone Maps, because it would help their provenance, and make them many times more valuable than if he just said he found them.

    I think it was Tom Kollenborn that said he knew the exact spot whomever designed the Stone Maps sat and made the drawings (which mountaintop).



    TRAVIS FOUND THE ORIGINAL SET OF STONE MAPS


    First, Travis' daughter Janie, told me with ZERO EQUIVOCATION that her dad was in NO WAY part of any hoax!

    Next, imagine that you are the Tumlinson Family. How many erstwhile Treasure Hunters, Authors, and Historians have contacted them over the years wanting to know every detail about Travis and the Stone Maps. Every time the Stone Maps were in the news (i.e. Life Magazine), a new set of people would track them down, call and write them. With probably a good many of them demanding to know about the Stone Maps. How many people on this forum alone have we seen demand people give them information? I have seen it many times. People can be downright a-holes! What would be the quickest way to get rid of all those pests? Tell them "I saw Travis carve the Stone Maps. They are fakes!" Makes you think.....huh?

    Now, I have said for many years, that I don't pay much attention to what people say. I look closely at their actions. How they act. That is a true clue to a persons motives and feelings.

    Travis had the maps from about 1949 until his death in 1961. There is no evidence that he ever tried to sell them to anyone. He did display them at the gas station and charge people to look at them. While his Uncle Robert was in possession of the Stone Maps from 1956 until about 1959 or so, he kept them in boxes under his bed. He would sit at a bar and tell people he would find a treasure one day. He did it so often, they nicknamed him "Hardrock Tumlinson". He told his landlord about the Stone Maps, and rather than try to sell them to him, he got the landlord to fund several trips to the Superstitions from Oregon to try and solve them. So obviously Robert believed they were authentic treasure maps. Would Travis REALLY let his UNCLE waste all that time and money if he knew they were fakes? Quien Sabe? When Travis thought he was recovering from the cancer, he had to pull a gun on his uncle to get his Stone Maps back. It was so bad that Robert only found out in 1965 that Travis had died in 1961! He found out from one of Dick Peck's Private Investigators.

    Clarence O. Mitchell must have believed in their authenticity, because he paid Aileen Tumlinson $1200 for the Stone Maps after Travis died. $1200 was a princely sum in 1961, when the average yearly wage was about $4000!

    ..........and speaking of Dick Peck. Let us remember when his investigator Elbert Love wrote that he had interviewed one of Travis' close friends in Oregon. This friend (I don't remember his name) said that most nights they would sit outside together. Travis would bring out the Trail Stones. He would sit and stick his finger in the big hole in the Lower Trail Stone and say "If I could only figure out where that is......I would be a millionaire!" Doesn't sound like someone pulling a hoax, does it?

    Buuuuut, the family members may indeed have seen Travis carving the Stone Maps. could they tell for certain if they were the originals, or was Travis making a set of copies? Also, Travis himself stated that he added some things to the Stone Maps in case someone stole them. Is that what his relatives saw? When he was sitting with his friend, he wasn't fingering the heart at the end of the trail, he was fingering the big hole in the mountain on the Lower Trail Stone! More to chew on!

    Mike
    Nice post Mike,

    I’ll go with Janie, Tom was very nice to me, Impossible to draw the map from that mountain it’s not near there.
    The paper Ground map is a fake. And the big Hole on the map is the timer, it ties all the maps in.
    Thats how I found the Priest.


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    Travis never carved them,

    Wrmickel1

  4. #4

    Jan 2014
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    All one has to do is to look at the actions of the Tumlinson family during the time RG was involved with them. If TT carved the Stone Maps, then why the secrecy and additionally the refusal to reveal such items as the Ground Map, Star Map, or even more information about the smaller grey stones? There's much that they're holding back which wouldn't be the case if TT had perpetuated a scam.

    In fact, if the family felt that TT had carved the Stone Maps as an elaborate scam, I really doubt that they would have wanted to become involved with RG, or be willing to become part of a TV series, a documentary, or to garner more attention, or permit RG to be their circus barker.
    somehiker, larrywv and Oroblanco like this.

  5. #5
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

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    Quote Originally Posted by deducer View Post
    All one has to do is to look at the actions of the Tumlinson family during the time RG was involved with them. If TT carved the Stone Maps, then why the secrecy and additionally the refusal to reveal such items as the Ground Map, Star Map, or even more information about the smaller grey stones? There's much that they're holding back which wouldn't be the case if TT had perpetuated a scam.

    In fact, if the family felt that TT had carved the Stone Maps as an elaborate scam, I really doubt that they would have wanted to become involved with RG, or be willing to become part of a TV series, a documentary, or to garner more attention, or permit RG to be their circus barker.

    LOL NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A GOOD LINE OF S**T! HAHAHA

    Mike
    "You wouldn't like me when I'm mad, because I back up my rage with hard facts and logic!" - The Credible Hulk

    "Where do they teach you to post like this? In some Panama City "Sailor wanna hump-hump" bar, or is it getaway day and your last shot at whiskey? Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here."

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

  6. #6
    us
    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    LOL NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF A GOOD LINE OF S**T! HAHAHA

    Mike
    mike...there is so much b.s. surrounding this tumlinson saga i dont think it will ever be sorted out
    alan m, Oroblanco and Idahodutch like this.

  7. #7
    us
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    It's not that hard to sort out, just ignore all the dung beetles spreading it around.
    wrmickel1, dredgernaut and markmar like this.

  8. #8
    us
    Executive Director of Nothing

    May 2014
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    Did Travis carve the Stone Crosses? I don't believe he did. They tell you the most important clue of all. That being, which longitude line the mine is on.
    The following is the opinion of the writer and if you don't like it you can stick it.

  9. #9
    us
    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by coazon de oro View Post
    It's not that hard to sort out, just ignore all the dung beetles spreading it around.
    it is actually pretty easy when you look at all the facts and ignore all the talk...the most important fact is that nothing has ever been RECOVERED using the stone maps..recovered being the key word here

  10. #10
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    it is actually pretty easy when you look at all the facts and ignore all the talk...the most important fact is that nothing has ever been RECOVERED using the stone maps..recovered being the key word here
    Howdy Dave,

    Just because nothing has been recovered yet, and made public, does mean the stone maps found by Travis Tumlinson are fakes. It is what makes it easy for people like R.G. to try and make up their own story about them to try and make a profit, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    When R.G. began his story, he was doing it with the stone maps that are in the ldm museum, but we kept debunking his ideas when he brought them here for testing. He ended up with a story of some different "original" maps, and stated at the end that Travis had nothing to do with the stone maps that are in the ldm museum. He just confused a lot of innocent people, and blew stardust in the eyes of Travis' family members.

    Homar
    Oroblanco likes this.

  11. #11
    gr
    Oct 2012
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    The stone maps from the museum are real maps to treasures and were not carved by Travis Tumlinson. The stone maps are for three mines, which two of them have treasures hidden inside.
    These treasure mines/sites are two of seven mines/treasure vaults from that region. Three of them were discovered occasionally over the past 150 years, but from only one a grup of men took more than one bar over the next years and this vault is not depicted in the stone maps. The only mine /treasure from the stone maps which was discovered , was the lower dot in circle in front of the Horse and its discovery was told in Holyground's grandfather story.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  12. #12
    us
    Dec 2008
    3,228
    7328 times
    Quote Originally Posted by coazon de oro View Post
    Howdy Dave,

    Just because nothing has been recovered yet, and made public, does mean the stone maps found by Travis Tumlinson are fakes. It is what makes it easy for people like R.G. to try and make up their own story about them to try and make a profit, and there is nothing wrong with that.

    When R.G. began his story, he was doing it with the stone maps that are in the ldm museum, but we kept debunking his ideas when he brought them here for testing. He ended up with a story of some different "original" maps, and stated at the end that Travis had nothing to do with the stone maps that are in the ldm museum. He just confused a lot of innocent people, and blew stardust in the eyes of Travis' family members.

    Homar
    homar...the museum stone maps are the ones i'm talking about...nothing has or ever will be found with those...if travis had a different set of stone maps they are long gone and nothing to do with anything
    Riverbum and Oroblanco like this.

  13. #13

    Jan 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    homar...the museum stone maps are the ones i'm talking about...nothing has or ever will be found with those...if travis had a different set of stone maps they are long gone and nothing to do with anything
    Do you have any actual evidence that proves that the Stone Maps in the museum are fake?

  14. #14
    us
    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by deducer View Post
    Do you have any actual evidence that proves that the Stone Maps in the museum are fake?
    plenty but you democrat fellers wont accept the truth even when the proof is overwhelming...do you have any proof they aren't fake?
    Riverbum likes this.

  15. #15
    us
    May 2010
    texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdave35 View Post
    homar...the museum stone maps are the ones i'm talking about...nothing has or ever will be found with those...if travis had a different set of stone maps they are long gone and nothing to do with anything
    Howdy Dave,

    You are a stone expert, and have broken your share of stones which speak volumes to you. Yet you have not been able to crack the Peralta Stones which have letters on them, truly ironic. "The eyes are useless when the mind is blind" - Seth Adam Smith

    Homar

 

 
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