Continuum

[arcana-exploration]

jeff...you need to realize that if you come on here claiming to have found the ldm you are going to get blasted..you will be ridiculed..laughed at and every other thing imaginable..especially when you are saying it takes a skilled cliff climber to get to it...waltz was an old man ..he never climbed up a cliff like spiderman to get to his mine...if you believe the holmes deathbed story waltz said he killed a couple mexicans that were working the mine..he said nothing of climbing a cliff and killing them...he just walked up on them and did the deed...you did not find the ldm...i have been to some of these mines that people claimed to be the ldm and they turned out to be either lead or copper mines...or low grade gold...back in the 30's when the depression was on people worked low grade mines and if they made only a few bucks a day they were glad to get it...arizona is dotted with these type of mines

Dave the canyon has been altered, I explained, that on our site, it would have been dangerous back in Jacobs time but doable, by a fit person, as he got older he did not go because it was a tuff climb. A young man in Jacobs's time could do it without gear, but still kind of hairy. I assume the 7.4 earth quake after Jacobs's death must be is what we are seeing. Do be honest do we have the LDM, everything we have pointed to it, but until we get up there and fully document what is up in the areas we have not reached, that will give us IMO what we need. But it is ok to doubt, you should because we have not shared much of what we have, that being said, we will see. So Dave thanks for your input. and no the Dutchman would not get up there today as he did back in his day, it not the same playing field. Thank you, Jeff.

 

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[JohnWhite]

Here is an oldie but a goody... ...lol...

Is it true that Cripple Creek Colorado was worked by the Spanish I wonder about them tellurides at times... rofl

Ed T

 

[azdave35]

Dave the canyon has been altered, I explained, that on our site, it would have been dangerous back in Jacobs time but doable, by a fit person, as he got older he did not go because it was a tuff climb. A young man in Jacobs's time could do it without gear, but still kind of hairy. I assume the 7.4 earth quake after Jacobs's death must be is what we are seeing. Do be honest do we have the LDM, everything we have pointed to it, but until we get up there and fully document what is up in the areas we have not reached, that will give us IMO what we need. But it is ok to doubt, you should because we have not shared much of what we have, that being said, we will see. So Dave thanks for your input. and no the Dutchman would not get up there today as he did back in his day, it not the same playing field. Thank you, Jeff.

waltz was never a young man when he visited the mine..he was in his mid 70's when he stumbled onto it..the mountain you are on has been covered a thousand times by experienced mine hunters...whatever you found is not the ldm..and the site you are violating is in a wilderness area..it was made a wilderness to keep knotheads from destroying history...in 1984 the forest service closed the superstition mountains off to any mining or destruction of historical sites...obviously you think you are above the law...ron feldman is the only man to obtain a permit to LEGALLY disturb a historical site and he did so with a government approved archaeologist , geologist and engineer...anything found was inspected by the authorities before it was disturbed..what you are doing is against the law...you have no permit and the book you are writing will probably be used as evidence against you

 

[arcana-exploration]

waltz was never a young man when he visited the mine..he was in his mid 70's when he stumbled onto it..the mountain you are on has been covered a thousand times by experienced mine hunters...whatever you found is not the ldm..and the site you are violating is in a wilderness area..it was made a wilderness to keep knotheads from destroying history...in 1984 the forest service closed the superstition mountains off to any mining or destruction of historical sites...obviously you think you are above the law...ron feldman is the only man to obtain a permit to LEGALLY disturb a historical site and he did so with a government approved archaeologist , geologist and engineer...anything found was inspected by the authorities before it was disturbed..what you are doing is against the law...you have no permit and the book you are writing will probably be used as evidence against you

Dave, you are correct, he was not a young man when he and his partner, partner most likely went there with most likely the Peralats, I should have said younger and while he still had some physical strength. but it probably did not last long, that is why IMO he most likely only actually gone to the mine 2 or 3 times and latter one or two times to the stashes IMO. We are not violating, or will not violate anything, only photo-documenting, also we are not, digging or disturbing anything. Every darn person at the DutchHunters Rendazvue would be lawbreakers according to your reasoning, tell me how we are different from them. They are not lawbreakers and neither are we. Wayne Tuttle, Greg Wynn, Salvador, and hundreds of others, there is absolutely, no law against, hicking and finding things as long as you do not disturb and follow the law. You say what we have found is not the LDM because there have been experienced miners covering the area thousands of times and could not find it so we cannot find, it, I guess because we are inexperienced and from Ohio, that I think is the Issue. Secondly, you do not know us, as I do not know you, so to make blanket statements as to us being lawbreakers without knowing us on exactly what we are doing is unfounded. If we have not found anything significant, then everyone will forget all about us if so we have had a great journey together,and live happily ever after. Jeff.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Thanks for posting, which of his books was this out of? The Sterling Hayden, works?

 

[azdave35]

Dave, you are correct, he was not a young man when he and his partner, partner most likely went there with most likely the Peralats, I should have said younger and while he still had some physical strength. but it probably did not last long, that is why IMO he most likely only actually gone to the mine 2 or 3 times and latter one or two times to the stashes IMO. We are not violating, or will not violate anything, only photo-documenting, also we are not, digging or disturbing anything. Every darn person at the DutchHunters Rendazvue would be lawbreakers according to your reasoning, tell me how we are different from them. They are not lawbreakers and neither are we. Wayne Tuttle, Greg Wynn, Salvador, and hundreds of others, there is absolutely, no law against, hicking and finding things as long as you do not disturb and follow the law. You say what we have found is not the LDM because there have been experienced miners covering the area thousands of times and could not find it so we cannot find, it, I guess because we are inexperienced and from Ohio, that I think is the Issue. Secondly, you do not know us, as I do not know you, so to make blanket statements as to us being lawbreakers without knowing us on exactly what we are doing is unfounded. If we have not found anything significant, then everyone will forget all about us if so we have had a great journey together,and live happily ever after. Jeff.

actually its not my reasoning..its the law....1984 was the end of hunting for the ldm...that's the law..go check it out...its a wilderness...about all you can do is hike in there...you are in there bucking for a book or tv show and for that you better get a permit and if you have disturbed any native american sites it will get real ugly...the feds regularly monitor forums like this one...and you are correct about the hundreds of others that have been in the mountains looking for the ldm...the difference between you and them is they aren't silly enough to come on a public forum and confess their crimes..

 

[Blindbowman]

"..its the law....1984 was the end of hunting for the ldm...that's the law..go check it out...its a wilderness.." no Da, Dick Tracy Dave to bad your wrong ... that's not the Law , that's your under standing of the law .. sorry but wrong any one that did find something of historic value or under line wealth can file a claim , in fact I have all the paper work in my file box for that type of permit ... the law can not stop anyone from looking .. they just don't want you in there blowing up things with TNT or digging big holes for people to fall in ...you think if the Gold legend was solved any one would go there ... lol about 10 people a week would hike out there the rest would say not any more ,and the wilderness area would go belly up in a year ...don't falter your self they make a lot of money off the treasure hunters and prospectors ...that whole area would be a rock pile if it was not for these old legends , if you think any different your crazy ... do you think if the Jesuit treasure was found that the wilderness laws will stop it from being removed your ready for nut bin ....the Government loves any one who find treasure they tax the living f out of any one that finds it .. I won $36,000 . it cost $8,896 in taxes and over $1,200 for interest all paid to IRS . so don't push the BS about laws ...,IRS will tax any thing Reported ... ! Reported ! Reported ! I could have dump trucks full of Gold out there waiting but not one cup full would be taxed ! and that's why the law reads the way it dose ... so they can get any one that dose make a find to claim it legally because IRS will line their pockets with your hard work ...and that is a fact ! so to all of you keep your big mouth shut and drive away with a sad look on your face like you found nothing !

 

[azdave35]

"..its the law....1984 was the end of hunting for the ldm...that's the law..go check it out...its a wilderness.." no Da, Dick Tracy Dave to bad your wrong ... that's not the Law , that's your under standing of the law .. sorry but wrong any one that did find something of historic value or under line wealth can file a claim , in fact I have all the paper work in my file box for that type of permit ... the law can not stop anyone from looking .. they just don't want you in there blowing up things with TNT or digging big holes for people to fall in ...you think if the Gold legend was solved any one would go there ... lol about 10 people a week would hike out there the rest would say not any more ,and the wilderness area would go belly up in a year ...don't falter your self they make a lot of money off the treasure hunters and prospectors ...that whole area would be a rock pile if it was not for these old legends , if you think any different your crazy ... do you think if the Jesuit treasure was found that the wilderness laws will stop it from being removed your ready for nut bin ....the Government loves any one who find treasure they tax the living f out of any one that finds it .. I won $36,000 . it cost $8,896 in taxes and over $1,200 for interest all paid to IRS . so don't push the BS about laws ...,IRS will tax any thing Reported ... ! Reported ! Reported ! I could have dump trucks full of Gold out there waiting but not one cup full would be taxed ! and that's why the law reads the way it dose ... so they can get any one that dose make a find to claim it legally because IRS will line their pockets with your hard work ...and that is a fact ! so to all of you keep your big mouth shut and drive away with a sad look on your face like you found nothing !

bowman...i tell you what...you go file your claim and let us know how it goes

 

[Blindbowman]

bowman...i tell you what...you go file your claim and let us know how it goes

funny ... I already know what happens and its not what claim its what you don't ...lol I think the State of AZ should have set its own laws and keep the government out of it ..that's why some many people go out there looking and few legends have any thing left of value other then a good story .. I agree with you even if your wrong they have a legal trap set for taxes and they will end up with 1/2 value of any thing found that is reported ! you could file a dozen claims but they would cost you thousand in permit fees , like Ron . he did not hit the mark but he learn a lot along the way ...you can not blame someone for trying even if it is miss ...

 

[Blindbowman]

in fact if your going to talk about the legal side of all of this RON has my respect because he is not just on a web page telling others what the law is he went head to head with those laws and got the permit for his site right or wrong that's not the point at all ... its the fact of doing it or talking about it ...!

 

[azdave35]

in fact if your going to talk about the legal side of all of this RON has my respect because he is not just on a web page telling others what the law is he went head to head with those laws and got the permit for his site right or wrong that's not the point at all ... its the fact of doing it or talking about it ...!

it took him 5 years to get a permit..but he got it and he is the only man that has ever done it...and probably the last man to do it

 

[Blindbowman]

you have to have evidence real evidence to file a claim . I have gold tested and quartz and I got a match . but I want to be 100% sure my claim will get a permit ...if I was to pick one thing to share with everyone who looks for the LDM or any treasure for that matter . make sure you have all your i's doted and evidence labled and collected and tested before you go for a permit and have a lawyer ready and waiting ..

 

[azdave35]

you have to have evidence real evidence to file a claim . I have gold tested and quartz and I got a match . but I want to be 100% sure my claim will get a permit ...if I was to pick one thing to share with everyone who looks for the LDM or any treasure for that matter . make sure you have all your i's doted and evidence labled and collected and tested before you go for a permit and have a lawyer ready and waiting ..

bowman..ron didnt get a mining claim...that will never happen in the wilderness..its withdrawn from mineral entry....he got a treasure trove permit...totally different deal.....they will never let anyone mine in the wilderness

 

[Blindbowman]

it took him 5 years to get a permit..but he got it and he is the only man that has ever done it...and probably the last man to do it

sorry I don't think that is true at all .. any one that has made a find can get a permit ..if he has the correct evidence and back ground research work...
if it takes me a few more years I am good with that ...

 

[Blindbowman]

and yes you are correct they are two very different permits ...

 

[azdave35]

sorry I don't think that is true at all .. any one that has made a find can get a permit ..if he has the correct evidence and back ground research work...
if it takes me a few more years I am good with that ...

the only reason they would issue a treasure trove permit is that if you did recover anything they would seize it on the spot...they know they would never get anything out of a miner...there isn't enough money in it for them

 

[Blindbowman]

but you for got the almighty Buck talks .. if someone found the LDM and it was that rich of ore ..the government can not work that mine without paying royalties to the finder .. and if it was that rich of a ore deposited they would give you a permit so fast your head would spin .. because they can not tax what they can mine ...if you proved it was the LDM they would give you a permit in a heart beat ! and the government would step in and run everything down to the type of TP used on site ...

 

[azdave35]

but you for got the almighty Buck talks .. if someone found the LDM and it was that rich of ore ..the government can not work that mine without paying royalties to the finder .. and if it was that rich of a ore deposited they would give you a permit so fast your head would spin .. because they can not tax what they can mine ...if you proved it was the LDM they would give you a permit in a heart beat ! and the government would step in and run everything down to the type of TP used on site ...

you can try but i don't think they would even listen to anyone trying to stake a claim in the wilderness...no matter what they found

 

[Blindbowman]

the only reason they would issue a treasure trove permit is that if you did recover anything they would seize it on the spot...they know they would never get anything out of a miner...there isn't enough money in it for them

very true , but if you find a treasure trove don't move it atall if you pick it up and walk away with it .. your already braking the law . you can not move it at all . take photo and walk away ..

 

[Blindbowman]

in fact I for get what the law is called but if you found a gold bell and you scratch it to see if it is gold you have broken the law ...you can not deface any artifact in any way or move or dislodge a artifact from its resting place in any way .. I for get what law is called . it is catch all BS law ... and I do believe it is federal law ...