Dutchman's Caches

[azdave35]

I have received some pm's talking about just that. It seems like there is a good chance you statement may not be accurate. So I thought it prudent to at least let you guys know. I don't want to be getting anyone killed.
Idaho Dutch

i don't know who is telling you that claims are allowed in the supers but they are wrong...1983 was the last year for claims up there...

 

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[Idahodutch]

i don't know who is telling you that claims are allowed in the supers but they are wrong...1983 was the last year for claims up there...

Dave, don't get me wrong, I have always had the same view as you. I am not a lawyer, but it sure sounds like maybe there is something to it. I would hate to find out the hard way that we were wrong. In other words, I wouldn't stake my life on it.
Just passing along info that may be prudent to know. This is supposed to be a gift to you guys, not a death trap.
Idaho Dutch.

 

[nobodie]

I thought that I read somewhere that no new claims were allowed. But old claims were allowed to continue. Maybe.��

 

[markmar]

I think I should mention a couple of other things.
On the east ridge near the top there is what looks like an old claim monument out of rocks. I did not check it for papers.
The other thing I noticed just down from the ridge, there are what looked to me to be two graves with piled rocks. If they are graves then maybe the Peraltas?
The claim should be checked out if that is what it is. You don't want to be shot.
Idaho Dutch.

Could be the FINALLY claim staked in 1966. Is painted out on a boulder close to the canyon floor in the area you have mentioned.

 

[azdave35]

I thought that I read somewhere that no new claims were allowed. But old claims were allowed to continue. Maybe.��

nope..everyone was kicked out in 1983

 

[Idahodutch]

Could be the FINALLY claim staked in 1966. Is painted out on a boulder close to the canyon floor in the area you have mentioned.

Nice work Markmar! Your eyes must be better than mine, or found some records? Do tell
Idaho Dutch

 

[Idahodutch]

nope..everyone was kicked out in 1983

Dave, do you know if all existing claims were actually revoked, or was everybody just forced to remove any above ground improvements and structures. Maybe it's a case of illegal govt strong arming?
Idaho Dutch

 

[Idahodutch]

Could be the FINALLY claim staked in 1966. Is painted out on a boulder close to the canyon floor in the area you have mentioned.

It just hit me, 1966. Perhaps Aylor had the area claimed up and after his death that the name "Finally" was used by next guy

 

[azdave35]

Dave, do know if all existing claims were actually revoked, or was everybody just forced to remove any above ground improvements and structures. Maybe it's a case of illegal govt strong arming?
Idaho Dutch

in 1973 the feds gave a 10 year time limit for prospectors to locate the ldm and at the end of the 10 years ALL claims were declared null and void and everyone was kicked out including some of my friends...they all organized meetings with the feds to negotiate but to no avail..they all lost their claims and after 1983 the area was withdrawn from mineral entry..which means no claims or mining...the state attorney general at the time was one that lost his claims and was booted out also...along with him was chuck crawford...bob ward..ed pecen..warren and ella applegate.. warren koneman..bruce gillette...obie stoker..and a host of others...

 

[azdave35]

It just hit me, 1966. Perhaps Aylor had the area claimed up and after his death that the name "Finally" was used by next guy

chuck aylors passed away in the 1960's

 

[Idahodutch]

It just hit me, 1966. Perhaps Aylor had the area claimed up and after his death that the name "Finally" was used by next guy

Taking this speculation further that perhaps the owner of "Finally" after getting what he could get or wanted to get, drew a clever map and called it the Waltz Map.

Idaho Dutch

P.S.
Perhaps if he made the map, maybe he left some for the next guy on purpose? The game continues.

 

[Idahodutch]

Taking this speculation further that perhaps the owner of "Finally" after getting what he could get or wanted to get, drew a clever map and called it the Waltz Map.

Idaho Dutch

P.S.
Perhaps if he made the map, maybe he left some for the next guy on purpose? The game continues.

Whatcha bet the Waltz Map didn't surface until shortly after 1983.
Idaho Dutch

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Whatcha bet the Waltz Map didn't surface until shortly after 1983.
Idaho Dutch

conversing with yourself?

 

[Idahodutch]

conversing with yourself?

Yeah, got carried away. The thought of someone finding the LDM but having to wait and wait for the guy that's got the LDM covered by his claims (maybe unknowingly). After the guy dies, he files a claim and names it "finally".
Just my imagination running. Thanks for letting me spill my beans.

 

[Blindbowman]

Yeah, got carried away. The thought of someone finding the LDM but having to wait and wait for the guy that's got the LDM covered by his claims (maybe unknowingly). After the guy dies, he files a claim and names it "finally".
Just my imagination running. Thanks for letting me spill my beans.

there is a problem with that .. there is a claim .. its binding if made public the part can step in and fight for ownership .. and its the worst kind of claim .. its why I have not made a legal claim ...any of the old timers will till you if there is standing rock piles or stacks of stone .. there claim is most likely registered some where ... near by ...here is where the problem starts .. the Church of Topira recorded the claim ...! that's why no one found it .they wanted it to be over looked ...legally they still own a legal claim on the mine as far as I can tell ..it is a Jesuit claim and its recorded in Portugal not Spain ...if they learn where the site is then they do in fact have the right to make claim ...the problem with that is the Zuni site predated their claim and that is a out right fact .. but if the Zuni claim is seen by the courts then as many as 3 or 4 other tribes would all have legal grounds to claim the site .. so if we stand on historical vs modern treasure laws .. the site finder will only get about 1/4 of the total value if a government
waver is granted ...there is a lot of red tape and you could end up owing the government finder fees before you ever got a pick in the ground ... the as soon as you swing that pick the native American nations can step in and play the historical religion card . and it will start all over from the beginning...

 

[Blindbowman]

that's just why I said I could walk away with both of the caches ... because both are still there ...

 

[Blindbowman]

it is also why I have refocused on the Jewels ...and yes they are still in place ...the stone box is un disturbed ! but till I have someone I can trust help me . they are still waiting ...

 

[Idahodutch]

The Waltz Map

Here is a copy of the Waltz Map. Meant to post it earlier.

 

[Idahodutch]

Map Overlay to Location

Hopefully this will come through. It is the Waltz Map overlaid onto a GE image of the location talked about in this thread.

 

[markmar]

Hopefully this will come through. It is the Waltz Map overlaid onto a GE image of the location talked about in this thread.

IMHO, the landmarks in the center of the Waltz map are in a different area, but you are free to support your theory

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