Dutchman's Caches

[Idahodutch]

IMHO, the landmarks in the center of the Waltz map are in a different area, but you are free to support your theory

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Hello markmar,
I don't know if I would call it a theory, just observations. Of the 4 objects in the center inside your red box, the one in upper left I included in the overlay because there is actually a faint outline of it on ge in that exact same spot. Weird Huh?

 

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[markmar]

Idahodutch

If you are looking for a spot which hold placer gold in Needle Canyon, then you have to move little back up canyon, at a place where the waters from different canyons and arroyos, are coming to a halt, a " resting " place where the ground is flat and with a low incline.
The spots from where you have took samples, are both in a wrong place to hold placer gold. At the junction of Needle Canyon and Bluff Spring Canyon, there the waters have a big quantity and presure and is very hard to keep the gold nuggets. And at the spot you believe is the LDM, there too the waters have a big quantity and preasure because the canyon gets narrow and the incline increase.
The only places that hold placer gold in Needle Canyon, are those which I marked with yellow ( in interior of the bends and the big plain ) in your GE overlay/map. These spots are also marked in an old Mexican map.

 

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch

If you are looking for a spot which hold placer gold in Needle Canyon, then you have to move little back up canyon, at a place where the waters from different canyons and arroyos, are coming to a halt, a " resting " place where the ground is flat and with a low incline.
The spots from where you have took samples, are both in a wrong place to hold placer gold. At the junction of Needle Canyon and Bluff Spring Canyon, there the waters have a big quantity and presure and is very hard to keep the gold nuggets. And at the spot you believe is the LDM, there too the waters have a big quantity and preasure because the canyon gets narrow and the incline increase.
The only places that hold placer gold in Needle Canyon, are those which I marked with yellow ( in interior of the bends and the big plain ) in your GE overlay/map. These spots are also marked in an old Mexican map.

View attachment 1764377

Markmar,
Congrats on pointing out some of the areas that I collected samples from years ago. I think you misunderstood the whole point of my trip back in ’08. I wanted to get verification of gold is present and where it is not. (I did not know about Waltz Map then).
I did not expect to find any placer gold. I was looking for evidence of old gold mining . . . . . the dust that slowly gets washed down to the canyons. Not necessarily in large quantities, but some needed to be present. I figured that there should definitely be at least some almost all through Needle canyon. (Old Peralta mine and such) It is in the sections I tested. I can say that because I went and got samples and tested them. However, if the ravine in question is the site, then there stands to reason that there would be more gold dust starting below that raving than there would be before it (upstream). There is.
I know that doesn't mean it is the site, but it did not rule it out.

You go look for whatever you want. As for me, I was looking for the LDM Site.
What I would really like to know . . . . just a couple of things:
1) Could this site actually be the LDM
2) Who made the Waltz Map, because it points to this ravine.

Idaho Dutch

 

[markmar]

You are doing very well in looking for the LDM. I believe you are very close.

 

[Idahodutch]

Thanks Markmar, That and a cup of coffee will get me a cup of coffee. So what is your view on who made the Waltz Map?

 

[azdave35]

Thanks Markmar, That and a cup of coffee will get me a cup of coffee. So what is your view on who made the Waltz Map?

some drunken fool in a bar in apache junction

 

[Idahodutch]

some drunken fool in a bar in apache junction

Dave, Your post hit my funny bone. But then all of a sudden, I wondered. . . are . . are you. . . are you saying it was you?

 

[Oroblanco]

some drunken fool in a bar in apache junction

HAY now I resemble that remark! Are you casting aspersions on my cartography skills when fully inebriated?

Now I really do need that coffee.

 

[azdave35]

HAY now I resemble that remark! Are you casting aspersions on my cartography skills when fully inebriated?

Now I really do need that coffee.

 

[markmar]

Thanks Markmar, That and a cup of coffee will get me a cup of coffee. So what is your view on who made the Waltz Map?

Waltz or somebody else who gave it to Waltz. Nobody than the owner before Waltz or Waltz himself would knew so many details about the LDM inclined shaft mine, because for that mine was the map made.
There is an answer to why at that point you have found gold dust coming from above, and little back you didn't, but I leave it to you to discover the reason.

 

[Idahodutch]

Markmar,
Do you think it's possible that there has been another owner that was after waltz, but perhaps was not public knowledge?

 

[markmar]

Markmar,
Do you think it's possible that there has been another owner that was after waltz, but perhaps was not public knowledge?

Everything is possible.

 

[Idahodutch]

Everything is possible.

I agree. Doesn't mean everything is probable. Since the hunt has already been who knows how many thousands of man hours, its probably prudent not to dismiss the possible. The odds of the probable are decreasing as time passes.

 

[markmar]

I believe how whoever would find the LDM inclined shaft before 1984, and had the rights to stake a claim, would stake a claim on it and would make it public. They would take the glory and the gold. Now they find nothing and claim to have found the LDM.
There were hundreds of mining claims al over the Superstitions before '84 and till the last hour of '83 they tried to find the LDM and to claim it.
The only people who could work the mine without to make it public, would be Peralta's or Peralta's workers descendants who have not the rights to claim the mine, or anybody who found it after 1984. But to hide the finding would be very difficult because of many circumstances.
IMHO, the LDM inclined shaft and the lost Waltz mine were not yet discovered ( by Americans ).

 

[Blindbowman]

I believe how whoever would find the LDM inclined shaft before 1984, and had the rights to stake a claim, would stake a claim on it and would make it public. They would take the glory and the gold. Now they find nothing and claim to have found the LDM.
There were hundreds of mining claims al over the Superstitions before '84 and till the last hour of '83 they tried to find the LDM and to claim it.
The only people who could work the mine without to make it public, would be Peralta's or Peralta's workers descendants who have not the rights to claim the mine, or anybody who found it after 1984. But to hide the finding would be very difficult because of many circumstances.
IMHO, the LDM inclined shaft and the lost Waltz mine were not yet discovered ( by Americans ).

are you reading what your write ?.. waltz was American by the time he found the mine .. he was born German after 7 years here he was legally American ..and I will say it again no one has been at the LDM after Waltz death ...the mine is just the way he left it in the will .... no one has done anything to it at all ... word for word the way he left it ...IMHO and both of you are dead wrong .. I wrote the profiling system for the PPL profiling data system Possibilities, Probabilities, and Logistics possibilities are paths of data that inter link with other stable known data ..Probabilities are data that share common factors and sequence patterns with Possibilities or known data or sequences of data ,fact or other wise ...Logistics are those known data sequence or facts recorded by history or evidence proven ..and excepted as fact!

 

[Blindbowman]

forget I said that ,I am held by oath.

 

[Idahodutch]

I believe how whoever would find the LDM inclined shaft before 1984, and had the rights to stake a claim, would stake a claim on it and would make it public. They would take the glory and the gold. Now they find nothing and claim to have found the LDM.
There were hundreds of mining claims al over the Superstitions before '84 and till the last hour of '83 they tried to find the LDM and to claim it.
The only people who could work the mine without to make it public, would be Peralta's or Peralta's workers descendants who have not the rights to claim the mine, or anybody who found it after 1984. But to hide the finding would be very difficult because of many circumstances.
IMHO, the LDM inclined shaft and the lost Waltz mine were not yet discovered ( by Americans ).

Markmar,
Sometimes the obvious can be hard to see. Personally, If I were back in the 60's or 70's say, and were to find what appeared to be the LDM. I would probably have filed a claim, BUT I do not think I would have made known anything other than I was working a spot that might be ok if I worked real hard or something. I think the last thing I would do is let the whole world know "LOOK HERE AT ALL THIS GOLD", By Golly! Its the LDM!

Maybe it's just me, but I think I would have just quietly worked.
Idaho Dutch

 

[Idahodutch]

are you reading what your write ?.. waltz was American by the time he found the mine .. he was born German after 7 years here he was legally American ..and I will say it again no one has been at the LDM after Waltz death ...the mine is just the way he left it in the will .... no one has done anything to it at all ... word for word the way he left it ...IMHO and both of you are dead wrong .. I wrote the profiling system for the PPL profiling data system Possibilities, Probabilities, and Logistics possibilities are paths of data that inter link with other stable known data ..Probabilities are data that share common factors and sequence patterns with Possibilities or known data or sequences of data ,fact or other wise ...Logistics are those known data sequence or facts recorded by history or evidence proven ..and excepted as fact!

BB,
If you are able to conclude within yourself as to what the LDM mine site actually looked like when Waltz left it last, and have seen it recently and maybe back a bit of time, but what about all the time in-between. We don't know what happened during that span of decades. My thing is that someone made the Waltz Map. Why, because I really don't think it was Waltz. But hey, I guess anything is possible. . . . Including someone leaving their site the way they found it. That used to be considered to be good practice.

 

[Blindbowman]

BB,
If you are able to conclude within yourself as to what the LDM mine site actually looked like when Waltz left it last, and have seen it recently and maybe back a bit of time, but what about all the time in-between. We don't know what happened during that span of decades. My thing is that someone made the Waltz Map. Why, because I really don't think it was Waltz. But hey, I guess anything is possible. . . . Including someone leaving their site the way they found it. That used to be considered to be good practice.

very true but we know Waltz never return to his site after a given date ... he never made any known changes other then the ones I have out lined in the will ... if that's true then the will told us what the mine looks like we are just to foolish to only see with our eyes and not our minds ... to be honest I did not believe the will at first . I saw a few things out of place till I found out why they looked out place ...that's why I said what I did about how Waltz had made it a trap .. but maybe that was not his goal ... I under stand why he did that way now . but dose anyone else under stand the man ...? but I also question when I said something about a persons friend list and someone shows up with and has no friends even when they talk with a lot of people here on the site, don't have friends because I am a old miserable SOB ...lol besides " the LDM could be 10ft from any one on this site and they would never know it "...

 

[Idahodutch]

i dont think anyone is interested..that area has been covered a bazillion times by many different people..chuck aylors and his wife lived in that area for years...if there was anything in the area chuck or one of the many others that worked that area would have found it

Azdave, I think that you may be right. Maybe one of them did, the tight lipped one.