Waltz going to Florence for supplies

[393stroker]

I read Waltz left the mine to get supplies in Florence. He was gone for 3 days. How far could he travel with a mule in 1 day?

 

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[deducer]

Over the years of coming and going from the mine, Waltz had a good number of people try to track him, from Holmes to Colonel Poston, McClarty, and Charlie Brown just to name a few. None of them were successful (that we know of). It's also been said that Waltz regularly entered the mountains different ways to keep people off balance.

I would assume that he also varied the amount of time he took to travel to and back from the mine so that nobody could get a good feel for how far he had gone.

 

[metrotec]

8 miles is the usual walk or 10 miles if you ride, back in the old days
Waltz was a guard and got paid
Why would a man who had such a high grade gold mine , live in poverty and die broke?
Waltz lived in a couple of large cities, yet he chose to live in a desert town. He was a very smart man and Very Trustworthy.
"Greyback" mountains. ring a bell? ain't the Greenback mts. cant remember if it's Grey or Gray. either way. James gang and other anti Union men bought up a lot of land around this location.
The Peralta bunch left a lot, the Apache got a lot.
It is still under guard, believe it or you can gwaff at anyone who says this sort of humor/facts/writings/or be just plain stupid is as stupid does.

 

[azdave35]

Over the years of coming and going from the mine, Waltz had a good number of people try to track him, from Holmes to Colonel Poston, McClarty, and Charlie Brown just to name a few. None of them were successful (that we know of). It's also been said that Waltz regularly entered the mountains different ways to keep people off balance.

I would assume that he also varied the amount of time he took to travel to and back from the mine so that nobody could get a good feel for how far he had gone.

charlie brown?...did he have lucy and linus with him?

 

[393stroker]

I figure I can hike about 1 mile per hour with a full pack in rough terrain. 4 mph with nothing weighing me down on a dirt road. So I’ll make a guess that a mule could go approximately 2 mph off road and 4 mph on road. So let’s say Waltz travels for 10 hours on a good day, he could go 20-30 miles. Put a pin on Florence and mark off 30 miles. That could put you on Coffee Flat, where he was seen climbing up the north side and gold has been found.

 

[Eldo]

More importantly was the fact that he was living in Ft. McDowell area and that he would be able to just "Waltz" in and out without very much trouble eluding others that were said to follow him

 

[somehiker]

More importantly was the fact that he was living in Ft. McDowell area and that he would be able to just "Waltz" in and out without very much trouble eluding others that were said to follow him

You and Roger sharing the same bong Eldo ?
The records show Waltz owning a homestead and cabin in what is now part of central Phoenix......nowhere near Ft. McDowell.

 

[Idahodutch]

You and Roger sharing the same bong Eldo ?
The records show Waltz owning a homestead and cabin in what is now part of central Phoenix......nowhere near Ft. McDowell.

It's good to see everybody still having fun

 

[somehiker]

It's good to see everybody still having fun

One "found it" leaves......and another steps into the ring.

Here's a real photo of Eldo's "army tent"...... it used to be visible from the Bush Hwy, on top of one of the peaks nearby.
Locals called it "the billboard".....and some complained that it was an eyesore. The TNF may have decided to take it down and put it in the gully below.



I have a few more as well....

 

[azdave35]

One "found it" leaves......and another steps into the ring.

Here's a real photo of Eldo's "army tent"...... it used to be visible from the Bush Hwy, on top of one of the peaks nearby.
Locals called it "the billboard".....and some complained that it was an eyesore. The TNF may have decided to take it down and put it in the gully below.



I have a few more as well....

there seems to be an endless supply of "finders"

 

[somehiker]

there seems to be an endless supply of "finders"

Been that way for the 25 yrs. I've been at this hobby.

 

[somehiker]

I read Waltz left the mine to get supplies in Florence. He was gone for 3 days. How far could he travel with a mule in 1 day?

Not 100% sure myself, but was the three day round trip the one where his partner Wieser was killed or wounded by the Apache while he was gone ? Or was 3 days the time that witnesses in Phoenix reported him out of town, when he left there to go to his mine ? I remember it as the latter.

Regardless, the trail from Queen Creek to Florence is all over flat terrain, where he would have been able to make good time. I believe Hwy 79 pretty much follows that old trail.

 

[393stroker]

I`m thinking that there might be something up by the heart that`s up there on Coffee
.

 

[somehiker]

I`m thinking that there might be something up by the heart that`s up there on Coffee
.

Always worth a look-see Chuck.
But I don't recall Waltz or anyone close to him, ever mentioning a "heart" as something related to his mine.
So, I'm more inclined to see that "clue" or "symbol" as being for something else entirely.

 

[azdave35]

I`m thinking that there might be something up by the heart that`s up there on Coffee
.

you aren't the only one that thinks that

 

[393stroker]

That`s the funny part. I found the heart by accident. Looks like somebody made it. From that area you can see the doodle backwards, at least to me. 4 peaks, miners needle, in the far distance ft. Mc Dowell, maybe he saw the horse`s kicking up dust. The square rock in the wash below, a line/fault , he was seen going up there and a coin was found there from that time. Could be something, you never will know if you never look. ps , gold was found up there. a big plus.

 

[Oroblanco]

Better rethink those distance estimates. A man RIDING a mule could easily cover forty miles in a day without running. Hence the old Cavalry song about 40 miles a day on beans and hay. Plus a good part of the journey would be over existing trails, which allows faster traveling. The story of his partner Weiser (Wizer Wiser Weisse etc) fleeing the mine was not clear if he had a mule or horse for a part of the journey or not. On the story of Waltz attempting to take Julia and Reiney to show them the mine and cache, they traveled from Phoenix to the Verde river crossing in the first day, likewise in the story of Dick Holmes trailing Waltz, a stop at the same place after a day's journey.

Please do continue, this point has always bothered me since it was possible to obtain food and supplies elsewhere I have wondered why travel to Florence? The Adams mill for flour makes sense of course, but surely flour could be purchased elsewhere too.

Happy 4th of July!

 

[markmar]

I figure I can hike about 1 mile per hour with a full pack in rough terrain. 4 mph with nothing weighing me down on a dirt road. So I’ll make a guess that a mule could go approximately 2 mph off road and 4 mph on road. So let’s say Waltz travels for 10 hours on a good day, he could go 20-30 miles. Put a pin on Florence and mark off 30 miles. That could put you on Coffee Flat, where he was seen climbing up the north side and gold has been found.

Chuck

Consider 1 mph from your spot until the Whitlow Corral area and 3 mph from there to Florence ( the mule was never free of pack ). Are about 32 miles ( one way ) so all together would took about 13 hours trip. Add a hour for lunch and watering the mule, become about 14 hours trip.
With the daylight to be in the winter time about 10 hours, he would been about the Queen Valley ( going to Florence ) for the night camp. Queen Valley seems to has been the night camp in both directions.
So, one day from your spot to Queen Valley, one day from Queen Valley to Florence and back to Queen Valley, and one day from Queen Valley back to your spot.

 

[GoDeep]

One thing i know about back country travel, be it hiking, biking, motorcycling, or horseback, almost without fail, you never make the time or mileage you estimate back at the ranch. Water breaks, food breaks, rest breaks, readjusting the packs and load, giving the animals rest, adjusting your saddle, stopping for the view or to look at maps, rocks in your shoes, rocks in your horses shoe etc etc etc. Take what you estimate you can make and either half the mileage or double the time and you're about right...

 

[EDN]

GPS location of the billboard. 33.582050°, -111.553169° Goggle Earth shows it standing in 2018.