Facts concerning the Lost Dutchman's mine

[Tilemaster13]

Some excellent questions to focus on IMO !

I've been telling my gf that I think the gold came from elsewhere. Where, idk but I have an idea. Just a feeling really.

 

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[Ramiro valdez]

Definitely, true, your going to find a lot of clues pertaining to the LDM that may lead you to the gold mine. But your not going to find the mine shaft anywhere in the superstitious mountains and you can count on that.

Gold is graded by grams per tonne 1 tonne equals 1000000 grams. For underground mining 8 or higher gold grade is considered a high quality. The LDM clue seems to indicate that the gold belonging to the mine is a 10 grade quality. The only reason why one would grade their gold mine would be to show proof of claim that they took it from that specific gold mine incase it got stolen.

 

[Idahodutch]

I kind of went through a little whirl wind of stuff lately.
It been a year since I had the neuroablations of nerves on my spine in lower back, and they have been coming back to life for couple months. Just had the procedure done again, only had to do in two batches, instead of all at once ... something about too much amping can happen from the numbing up.

They gave X-ray going during the short procedure, and saw something. That was Tuesday, and yesterday ended up getting an abdominal aortic ultrasound. Will get results back soon I think. (Edit: they said it is an aneurism, just need to find out how big it is)

The whole Herman interview implications got me worked up, over difference of opinion and I got a little passionate about disregarding clues or not. (I only mention, because I’m somewhat embarrassed to give display like that)

Was readying plans for a trip to the Supers ... which now may or may not go forth.
Waves come and go .... I guess. It’s the sneaker ones that surprise.

Life does go on, just have to remember to make most of it, or at least try

 

[Idahodutch]

Quick update:
We got the results back from the ultrasound, and the aneurysm is still has a mm to spare, before they would recommend surgery. They want to monitor for now.
We’ll get an appointment with the cardiovascular surgeon to go over everything, hopefully next week, to find out particulars.

 

[azdave35]

Quick update:
We got the results back from the ultrasound, and the aneurysm is still has a mm to spare, before they would recommend surgery. They want to monitor for now.
We’ll get an appointment with the cardiovascular surgeon to go over everything, hopefully next week, to find out particulars.

hope everything turns out ok

 

[Cubfan64]

Quick update:
We got the results back from the ultrasound, and the aneurysm is still has a mm to spare, before they would recommend surgery. They want to monitor for now.
We’ll get an appointment with the cardiovascular surgeon to go over everything, hopefully next week, to find out particulars.

Yikes - 1mm doesn't provide much leeway!! Having seen what an aneurysm can do to an otherwise healthy person, I sure hope things go ok in the coming weeks. Hang in there.

 

[Idahodutch]

Yikes - 1mm doesn't provide much leeway!! Having seen what an aneurysm can do to an otherwise healthy person, I sure hope things go ok in the coming weeks. Hang in there.

Cubfan,
Those were my thoughts as well ... a sneeze probably puffs it up that much.
They must have leeway type buffer built into the equation.... let’s hope

I’m hoping to get more of what to expect ... activity wise .. etc , at appointment.
I appreciate all the thoughts from you guys.
Just trying to let it sink in.

Sheesh, just got an almost fresh back for next 9 or 10 months too .
We’ll see I guess

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Sorry to hear about this, Russ... just glad they caught it before anything got out of hand...I'm sure they'll get get you fixed up, as Paul said, hang in there pard.

 

[Idahodutch]

Sorry to hear about this, Russ... just glad they caught it before anything got out of hand...I'm sure they'll get get you fixed up, as Paul said, hang in there pard.

Thanks Jim,
It is, what it is, I guess.
I’ll see what story entails, and go from there.

I think the LDM might have protection (wink).

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Thanks Jim,
It is, what it is, I guess.
I’ll see what story entails, and go from there.

I think the LDM might have protection (wink).

Sometimes I think it has anti-protection. I hopped on the forums here to catch up with what all everyone has been doing and just want to extend our well wishes and speedy recovery Idaho. Maybe we'll run into each other on the trail out there one day.

Now back to the facts. The original facts that were listed at the beginning of this are about all the "facts" that can really be proven. Every other fact has been twisted, bent, forged, outright lied about about so much that they are merely anectdotal facts by now. Or worse outright lies.

Here are some extra anecdotal facts that haven't been listed yet:
1) The board house at Quarter Circle U ranch was not where it is now. In fact it was about 3/4 of a mile past the gate to the ranch and has been demolished. Why does that matter? Because Waltz took Julia there on their ill fated foray to show them the mine. Fact (or fiction) Waltz pointed up and said that the mine was just over that ridge. Now having been over Cardiac Hill quite a few times I would say that it isn't a ridge but more a teaser into the pure hell that awaits someone on the other side. So sometimes I wonder, just which direction did Waltz point? North or South? It is entirely possible that he pointed South, back towards Queen Valley. That's an area I intend to really search out during this year. But, that means that all the "facts" about Weavers Needle and Four Peaks would end up as lies or "liberal interpretations of the truth".

2) Having been through the whole of the Supes from Cardiac Hill plumb through to Tortilla Flats and back again, one thing struck me; Try doing it in the rain when all the creeks are flooded and even the trails around Dutchman 104 become their own little creeks of hell in freezing temperatures. Just how long would it take to get in out from say Peters Mesa even with a burro? At least one day per my estimation from say Music Canyon Spring to anywhere resembling flat easy land. That's in these days with modernish trails upkept. In the old days with no to little trails and Apaches wanting to roast you you'd be hard pressed to do it in two days and stay safe.

3) At Waltz's age just what type of terrain would he be capable of traversing? I am 47 and my fiance is 38. My two kids 18, and 15 respectively had all they wanted and couldn't walk the next day after a hike up Peters through Pistol Canyon.

Point being is that after talking to Frank on the phone a few times a couple of years ago I realized. Maybe this thing isn't as far off the beaten path as we'd be led to believe Waltz wasn't a spring chicken by the time he found whatever it was he found out there. Are we to assume he was so fit as to proverbially and effectively physically smoke men half his age?

4) Julia drew a lot of bad maps. But she did try to go in from Hog Canyon, then tried to go in from the south, then drew a map going in from the Salt. All maps to the same place and all bad maps, so should any of that be taken as gospel? But a fact is, she did try and try heartily to find the "mine". But fact is she was first hand and still failed.

5) We don't know if the two soldiers even existed but strong anecdotal evidence for the grave of one places it on the QCU ranch or thereabouts, leading a grain of some sort of evidence that the "two soldiers" were headed back into the range where they'd found their rich ore. The issue again is which way were they headed? Is it possible the deposit is actually somewhere between the QCU and Queen Creek?

6) The range has been so throughly looked at, poked, prodded around Weavers Needle that there likely isn't anything shiny there. It's simply not conducive to gold ore.

7) Hells Hole spring is a geothermal spring. I've been there. It's around 79 degrees years round and is a hint of the geologic past. There is also a horse head a canyon over and a mine along with a slew of clues but again, that land has been poked at and prodded ad infinitum now for almost 200 years.

So where does this leave us? The mine if you will is somewhere in there. I've posted pictures of ore I've found. A fact (8) is the Cochera Ore came off Peters Mesa, but even the sample we found was told to me by Mr Feldman on the phone after I spoke to him to probably be off of a saddle pack from Spanish Miners booking it.

9) One indisputable fact is the location of the Massacre Grounds.

I could go on but just wanted to throw some stuff out there. I hope this year is better for everyone, and it's nice to see that almost all the gang has remained healthy through this stupid Covid pandemic. I hope you are feeling better Idaho.

I'd love to hear some feedback on some of this.

 

[Idahodutch]

Thx Old Man

I have appt. for overview of everything next week. I did get a call back, and was told it is not urgent. But doctor will cover stuff at visit.

I asked what does that mean .. pretend I don’t have an issue, she giggled and said, yeah, pretty much.
So I’m planing a trip in. Maybe will see you in there

She did say not to overstrain. So will be in mosey speed

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Thx Old Man

I have appt. for overview of everything next week. I did get a call back, and was told it is not urgent. But doctor will cover stuff at visit.

I asked what does that mean .. pretend I don’t have an issue, she giggled and said, yeah, pretty much.
So I’m planing a trip in. Maybe will see you in there

Getting too hot and rattlesneky for me. More like November now. Haha. Glad you got good news. That's a scare and a half. Stay well!

 

[azdave35]

Getting too hot and rattlesneky for me. More like November now. Haha. Glad you got good news. That's a scare and a half. Stay well!

why you worried about rattlesnakes?..they don't eat much

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

why you worried about rattlesnakes?..they don't eat much

Yeah especially the green ones! I can wait haha.

 

[Barber..]

they said it is an aneurism

Not sure how I missed that.. Hope everything turns out ok for you pal..

 

[Barber..]

which direction did Waltz point? North or South? It is entirely possible that he pointed South, back towards Queen Valley. That's an area I intend to really search out during this year.

That's kinda what I think, only I believe it would be a cache and not the actual mine.. Which would explain why the Lost Dutchman Mine hasn't been found yet (that we know of anyway) If he told them how to get to the mine, but also how to get to a cache, they could have very easily got the directions mixed together.. At least that makes sense in my been up all night 4:30 in the morning mind.. think I need to get some sleep now..

 

[somehiker]

Pretty sure the trip to the "board house" was only planned.
But Waltz died before they could go.
What and who is the source for it having happened ?

 

[393stroker]

I wonder about the clue of a cowboy named Robles stating that he witnessed Waltz climbing up the north side of Coffee Flat. If true one would think he wasn’t going up there for his health.

 

[somehiker]

I wonder about the clue of a cowboy named Robles stating that he witnessed Waltz climbing up the north side of Coffee Flat. If true one would think he wasn’t going up there for his health.

On his way to the Silver Chief ?
I guess it would depend on where any particular clue fits into Waltz's timeline.
Where was he living at the time....Florence or Phoenix ?
Was he recovering placer or ore then ? Or just on a prospecting trip, prior to finding either ?