Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

[cactusjumper]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

bb,

Uranium does not glow. Radium, on the other hand does, but the the glow is blue. The radium itself, if exposed to air, would turn black from oxidation. I worked one very cold winter in a uranium mine in Gas Hills, Wyoming.

If this is some kind of super, unknown type or uranium, there might be animal bones all around it. Man has traveled through and lived in the area of your discoveries for centuries. Such a "death zone" would be known.

CJ

 

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[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

bb,

Uranium does not glow. Radium, on the other hand does, but the the glow is blue. The radium itself, if exposed to air, would turn black from oxidation. I worked one very cold winter in a uranium mine in Gas Hills, Wyoming.

If this is some kind of super, unknown type or uranium, there might be animal bones all around it. Man has traveled through and lived in the area of your discoveries for centuries. Such a "death zone" would be known.

CJ

thank you for some honest in put , because i am starting to agree with some of you ... we dont know what this is , and i lived in wym ,for over years one time i have herd of the uranium mines there and i never herd of this happening ,,, what ever this its totoall isolated from the area around it ,,,

i my self beleive its some kind of reflective metal like gold , but i have a hard time thinking there could be this much gold in this ore to cause this effect .. but this is the secound time in my life i have seen this efect and with in a mile of each other ...

its normal . and i can relocate this site very easy ... and i hate to say it but there dose in fact look to be more bones in this area then most of the area around it . i just beleived it was caused from mt lions or other animals liveing in the cave system ..., a good peice of evidence can good a long way to under standing something that just dosent look normal or relate to the area its being found in ...

"Uranium does not glow" verytrue but it looks like it dose on film in some cases . but often it has to be very close . this is why he said he beleive it was some kind of gold ore or other metal but if the color it is reflection is a yellowish gold ,then it must be a golden color it self ...

i cant rule out uranium ...but i do agree with you cj .....the only thing we are sure of is there is gold ore on both sides of this cave system in a shocking amont ,and this makes us beleive the odds is that it is gold ore ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Greetings Blindbowman and everyone,

I would hesitate to make any kind of assessment of what is glowing in those two photographs. I have never worked in a uranium mine, but have poked around in a few not far from where I live now and the only ore present there (NE of Lusk Wyoming) and around Edgemont here is the common 'yellowcake' type

that is an earthy stone, often soft and crumbly to the hand and not light-reflective at all. As for gold - well that is quite another problem, since some types of stone will give off a very tantalizing 'glow' when the sun shines on it from the correct angle, like mica, feldspar, etc and it can really fool you! I have wasted more than one hike up to check out a golden glow from a distance, only to find a ledge of micaceous rock or even a thick vein of feldspar with plenty of shiny surfaces. Once was the most embarrassing, and I hate to even admit it but remember this took place when I was very much a newbie to the prospecting game - I hiked over a mile to find that a golden glow turned out to be a BEER CAN! It was just in the right position for the sun to reflect off it, and it sure didn't look anything like a beer can from a long distance away. So I would very much not wish to make any conclusions as to what that glow might be, certainly not from a photograph. It could be gold, it could be huge diamonds, it could be a pocket of topaz, it could be a large flake of mica, OR...it could be an old beer can! So I would say "no guess" as to what is glowing in those photos, will need more info like a close examination? Did you get to that glowing "thing" Blindbowman, to find out for sure what it is?

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

no but it is next on the list ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Thanks for not busting me on my hike to a BEER CAN! I also forgot one of the best natural minerals that can and will fool you from a distance - PYRITES. There are several different pyrites that look very "gold" from a distance. My father-in-law admitted to having hiked to the very top of a mountain where he spent hours pounding away with a sledgehammer on what he thought was gold, only to learn (after hauling his hard-won reward) that it was Iron Pyrites.

(A good example of Iron Pyrite, also known popularly as "fools gold")

Good luck and good hunting amigo, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Roy,

Yellowcake is made by crushing uranium ore, putting it into a giant vat with water, and turning the ore into a sludge the consistency of a thick pudding. Huge paddles in the bottom of the vat spin the mixture, and the yellowcake settles to the bottom where it is drawn off into 55 gallon metal drums. That yellowcake is then sent to be refined into the final product. Yellowcake looks nothing like the ore it is produced from.

Been many years since I worked over those vats, so there were probably more steps involved before reaching the yellowcake stage. Memory.........

This process was explained to me before I did my work over (very close) that swirling mess. I was told to say a very quick (one word) prayer if I lost my balance, as I would be pulled straight to the bottom of the vat.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Well thank you for the correction there Cactusjumper, but I can assure you that the local folks here refer to the ORE as "yellowcake" and it is an earthy, soft rock that runs yellowish in color, similar to this:

(from USGS.GOV)
That does not make it correct to call it "yellowcake" in any way, just common usage here in SW SD and NE WY. A rancher friend of ours (Thompson) took us out to poke around in some old uranium mines he owns (actually sold now) as he had eight patented uranium mines, and I picked up the habit of calling the ore "yellowcake" from our friends. As I mentioned earlier, I have never worked in a uranium mine - however I do have a geiger counter and this area is well dotted with old uranium mines, might be able to expend a day or three doing some more poking about!

I still maintain that it is very unlikely that any uranium ore would give off a "glow" from sunlight or other light source that would be picked up by a camera. I think it is safe to rule that possibility (that the glow seen in our amigo's two photos is from uranium) out for the time being.

The most common uranium ore in this area is Carnotite, which is described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnotite

This is the ore referred to in our local area here as "yellowcake". It has a hardness of "2" which is VERY soft and crumbly, and it does not reflect light well. I had NO idea that the term "yellowcake" is the term for a REFINED/concentrated extract of the ore! With Uranium prices now climbing, perhaps it is worth learning how to prospect for it?

Good luck and good hunting Cactusjumper and everyone, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Gentlemen: The picture isn't clear enough, but I have seen massive opal which was trending into prescious Opal look like that. hmmmm

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

if you dont know the diffrence between Iron Pyrites and gold you need to find a knew hobby ....lol ... commonly referd to as fools gold ...

i never did see why anyone would think it was real gold .. it dose not have the same structure and has a more flaky structure like mica , you can find it some times in nuget type struture but it still dose not look anything like real gold metal ...i dont even see the same color shine ...

i ruled these out before i posted that reply .. what ever this depostie is its not Iron Pyrites.. i am sure of that ... the veins i was about 9 ft from were gold ore in quartz ,, one peice was wire gold and one of the 4 samples we got had hair size wire gold , just so small i felt the size of it would not show up on the computer ,but it is hair size wire gold this sample came from within 50ft of the one vein with the pea size wire gold , i only saw the one small 1 inche length of this pea size wire gold but it was gold ...i gave my daughter a sample that had flake gold on the under side of the sample ..micro size flakes but never the less gold . the one quartz sample had black sands and flour gold on the sample .. this is 4 samples that had real gold on them , not in large amonts but never the less real gold, i took that quartz sample to the local sceince teacher and he confermed it was gold ...

i am not much on big mineing companyies destroeing the wilderness area .. maybe if i have to work this site by hand i could get a few of you guys to help ...

by the sounds of it you all know what fools gold is ... i dont hunt uranium so you know more about that then i do ...

the only reason i did not rule out uranium is the black death legends posably being related to the sites and the odd magnetic feilds in the area ,could be uranium effects .. but i think as close as i was i most likely would have gotten sick from it..... what i found odd wasbeyond the 50 ft lemits around this site there was no seeable signs of gold ore or even quartz veins in the area ..i need to get some donkeys or something and get back up there and see what this deposite is ...if you told me where this site was i would not beleive you...its not where any prospector would look . it is not a normal gold deposite ...i have never herd of a gold deposite like this ...

my father learned rock hounding and minning from my grand father he worked saint joes 35 years , i learned what i know about rock hounding and mineing from them .. this site i would say is a forced deposite . this dose not happen very often at all ... in fact very very rare ...

i under stand what the dutchman said and why other then one statement he made ...i under stand that statement i just dont know how he knew it ...maybe he found it by sheer luck ... or he maped the vein out with a compass and located it that way ,,

i would like to take a few people to see this site when i have the legal clam .... its will be the damnest thing you will ever see , i dont know any other way to explan it ...

by al rights it should not be there , but the forces of nature dont always apply to what humans think it should . and this is a clear case of nature doing something odd ...

if i have a choice ,i would want to have people like Oro ,cj ,real de and a few others work the mine with me then have some big company come in and disrupt the wilderness area ....it would be hard rock mineing by hand most likely .. but the ore could make us multi millionaries IMHO

just something to think about ...

i guess the only other concern i have is can we work these veins with out destrubing the site of chicomoztoc if it dose turn out to be th real chicomoztoc ...

if i was to make a guess i would think you are looking somewhere in the reality of 100-300 million yeild at this site ....i can some what judge this by the 16 to 1 mine ...and useing what i know and what the dutchman knew ...you could walk away with only 50 million ... that dosent look like the case but you know mineing as well as i do ...

and you all may not under stad why i would say this . but as in CJ's case . i know for a fact there is no one else to fill this man's shoes ... as is the case with those i would select to help mine this site if it takes place ...


the another preson we would need would be Ron Feldman ...

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

BB - did you ever get ahold of Ron Feldman?

I'm making you an offer here publicly as well. I work in a laboratory that has access to state of the art million dollar equipment for testing elemental composition of materials.

We don't specialize in geology, but we have some experts in material science and instrumentation that I know would be willing to do some "off the clock" work for me to look at one of your samples.

If the gold content is indeed as small in some of your samples as you say and you've given a piece or two away, there doesn't seem to be any monetary reason to not want to pass a specimen or two on to me for investigative analysis. I'd love the opportunity to see what you've found and I'll send you a full analysis of what I discover.

Send me a PM and I'll send you my work address.

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

untill i get a legal clam . i dont see that happening ...but i may take you up on that , i will have to think about it ...here is a sample

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

here is a better pic of this sample ..

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

here is another pic

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

last pic

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Up to you - there's no ulterior motive other than an interest on my part in seeing what you've found and playing a part in helping you identify it.

I'll let you look up the equipment we have online so you see what capabilities I'm offering at no cost to you - I have access to the following non-destructive instrumentation/testing capability:

1. 2 Scanning Electron Microscopes (SEM) - one of which has Energy Dispersive Xray (EDX) capability.
2. 2 Transmission Electron Microscopes (TEM)
3. 1 Micro Raman Fourier Transform Infrared Spectrometer (FTIR)
4. 2 Xray Diffractometers (XRD)

I'm not sure what the total cost of this equipment is as I haven't been involved in any of the purchases, but I'd guess somewhere in the range of $1-2 million.

Your samples look interesting - I'll be curious to see what some of the other folks have to say about them.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Greetings Blindbowman and everyone,

Blindbowman wrote:

if you dont know the diffrence between Iron Pyrites and gold you need to find a knew hobby ....lol

I have no problem differentiating gold from any other mineral, however looking at a glowing object from an unknown distance, it is not possible for me to tell whether the object/vein causing the glow in the photos is from gold, glass, pyrites, or an old beer can. Similar to some of the UFO photos, showing lights in the sky - it is just not possible to tell what it is from a photo alone.

i ruled these out before i posted that reply .. what ever this depostie is its not Iron Pyrites

How can you rule out iron pyrites when you have not yet gone to that glowing 'thing' to find out exactly what it is? Don't you want to examine it up close first?

i am not much on big mineing companyies destroeing the wilderness area .. maybe if i have to work this site by hand i could get a few of you guys to help ...

It is very doubtful that a mining company would ever be able to get permits to mine within the wilderness area, so working it by hand is about the only option.

the only reason i did not rule out uranium is the black death legends posably being related to the sites and the odd magnetic feilds in the area ,could be uranium effects

Okay now you lost me - what black death legends are associated with the Superstition mountains of Arizona? Or am I mis-reading this? Perhaps I just don't understand the statement.

i need to get some donkeys or something and get back up there and see what this deposite is ...

Now you are talking my lingo! I am sure our mutual amigo Real de Tayopa would sooner recommend mules than donkeys (burros) it depends on how much you plan to pack and whether you are willing to walk or want to ride. I would sure want to get back in there and find out for certain what caused that glow, even if it were a beer can! In treasure hunting, even finding that a spot has NOTHING is actually making progress, in making it possible to rule that site out!

if i have a choice ,i would want to have people like Oro ,cj ,real de and a few others work the mine with me then have some big company come in and disrupt the wilderness area ....it would be hard rock mineing by hand most likely .. but the ore could make us multi millionaries IMHO

I am flattered mi amigo, but we would have to keep a weather eye on our friend Real de Tayopa - of course I don't think he would make off with all the gold while we were sleeping, (heh heh) but... just to keep everyone honest! (ha ha) Remember, Real de Tayopa is an old school treasure hunter....!

That is an interesting ore sample you have there amigo, the color is unlike anything (quartz) I have ever seen that is supposed to have been found in the Superstitions. I would like to suggest that you weigh out approximately four ounces of the rock and send it in to have it fire-assayed for gold/silver content, plus the spectrographic test for other elements. You might take advantage of our friend's (Cubfan) offer here to do some testing for you - might save you a few bucks. Alternatively, one of several assayers that I have done business with over the years is Reed Labs:
http://home.nethere.com/rely/
the combo test (fire assay + spectro analysis) runs $45, and you can take their results to the bank. Another of the assayers we have found to be honest and reliable is Root and Norton Assayers, P.O. Box 316, Montrose, CO 81402 but I am not sure if they are even still in business - at least I can't find their website.

There are many others available so you might wish to 'shop around' - a good fire assay will tell you the true recoverable values of gold and silver in your ore, the spectrograph to identify any other valuable minerals that could be present. Just as an aside here but if you file your taxes as a prospector, your expenses on assays are tax-deductible.

Don't be discouraged if your ore does not test to contain a high value of gold, for within a gold-bearing quartz vein the amount of gold varies tremendously so it might be just a matter of feet or even inches between low-grade ore and rich bonanza ore. How does that old saying go, in the gold mining game you can be a foot from a million bucks or a million feet from a buck!

Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

i think i found something very importain just now , IMHO this rock sample is just why this site is chicomoztoc . this type of rock was used for their most spiriteral event , hunting arrowheads and spear heads ,, they most likely traded with other tribes , check this out . (http://www.texasarrowheads.com/featured-artifacts/crain-clovis/)


this same type of rock is used on other known clovis arrow heads and spear heads ... all most a dirrect match ...if i can match any known clovis arrowheads to this sample and this site#4 , i got my proff boys

think about it , if known clovis arrow heads is a genetic match to this rock sample . we not only can date this site but we could logical prove this site was a sorce of tradeing between the known clovis tribes ...

if i can prove it is a sorce of stone for for clovis pionts it may be the frist sorce of stone ever found ,with so much quartz and this type of stone in the area ...

you guys may not under stand why i do what i do but its looking for a needle in a hay stack blindfolded ...ya i may find that needle the hard way . but i will find it ...

do you know what this would do for this site ... a base target date . a link to a know clovis site and a tradeing piont between clovis sites . if it shows up at more then one site ,we can show they were tradeing with other tribes ,this could give those studying clovis culture a better under standing of their tradeing routes ...it could led to other sites being found ...

there is no way to know if we can match any pionts to this stone ..yet its worth a chance to try ...

i cant help but wonder if the shaman at this site were selling tools and stone and teaching other tribes how to make these pionts and tradeing with them ,maybe this is what chicomoztoc was all about . shaman helping others in need ...

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

here is site i came across wih researching arrow heads and other things that could be found at randon , some ot the data you can learn from a site like this one is priceless ,, there are some good related art to cultures here that can helpp you under stand what types of things can be found or made by diffrent tribes and what tribes made what types of things and what some of those things looked like compeared to other tribes work and skill levels ...http://www.caddotc.com/Catalogue/Inventory/inventory.htm):

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Greetings Blindbowman,

I have a couple of questions for you amigo:

Are those points discovered in the Superstitions?

Are you sure they are Clovis points?

The reason I ask is that they do not resemble the Clovis points I see in photos. I have found a number of good arrow and spear points over the years but never a single Clovis. Here is a photo showing good Clovis and other culture points from the same time period:

Here is a photo showing more Clovis points and tools, courtesy of the National Museum of Natural History

Now I do not pretend to be an expert on ancient stone tools, but these do not resemble the points shown in your photos above TO MY EYE.

I would propose that the points you have shown here are of several different ancient cultures, none of which are Clovis but date to the period 500 AD-1800 AD. Compare them to these examples:
http://www.texasarrowheads.com/ref/arrow-points.html

There are a number of fair to good sites online for identifying Amerindian stone points and tools, here are a couple that I have used in the past with happy results:

http://lithiccastinglab.com/listnewadditions.htm

http://www.uwlax.edu/MVAC/PointGuide/PointGuide.htm

I am sure that others here could suggest better online resources as well. (For some reason I have lost my favorite online point ID site, if I can find it again I will post it here.)

I don't wish to be seeming to always contradict what you are saying mi amigo Blindbowman, just looking for accuracy and correctness. We treasure hunters have a rather bad habit of getting 'excited' when we make a new discovery, and can often proceed from error by making an assumption that is quite incorrect - when we ought to just "keep our pants on" while we make certain of what we have found and get the identification as correct and authenticated as possible. So please don't think of me as the "wet blanket" here all the time, I hope that you succeed in your quest and am only making suggestions that might be of assistance when you do try to get those historians to re-write those history books.

Good luck and good hunting mi amigo and everyone, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[JakeW]

Re: Blindbowman Expedition 3A ," is there enough evidence to prove it ?"

Seeing as how the sups have been closed since 83 to mining claims, and is also a wilderness area. Good luck digging this out (by hand) and fighting the Feds and Forest Service for permission. I can show you better gold than that from the sups 70's, but everyone has a story don't we...