How sure is it that the Lost Dutchman mine is in the Superstitions?

[cactusjumper]

Hi Paul,

You can find Lamar's answer here:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,41448.msg2025153.html#new

Take care,

Joe

 

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[Oroblanco]

I saw Lamar's replies, and noticed that he still didn't say he was mistaken. At least he acknowledged your efforts.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I have five copies of the twelve documents I received. If Lamar needs more proof, I will be happy to mail him a set. I am satisfied with his post, as well as the evidence I have received.

Have to admit, I am unsure why he feels the need to do research in Mexico to validate Peralta's in Arizona, but each of us must follow our own path to the facts. I look forward to seeing what he digs up down there.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Dear Lamar,

I received another document today, from a friend in Missouri. He is one of the best researchers (LDM) that I know. This newspaper article came out of Greg Davis' collection:

You should be able to right click on the image and save it to your computer. Once there, it should be no problem to get it into a program to zoom and read it.

It looks like, with a little effort, you will be able to read it here.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Old Dog]

Thanks Joe,
I had no trouble reading it here.

 

[Oroblanco]

I had intended to just post a 'bump' on this thread, in hopes of an update from the original poster. However as this remains a rather intriguing question, how certain is it that the Lost Dutchman's mine is in the Superstitions, I am still interested in reading the opinions/evidence of others on the question.

For instance, in favor of the gold mine being located inside the Superstitions, we know that Waltz was trailed into these mountains on several occasions, each attempt however failing to follow him to the mine itself. The story of Phipps if true, along with the fake Roland Gassler having similar ore shown to Tom Kollenborn, reputedly taken from the (now missing) backpack of Walt Gassler, and also the clues and statements from Waltz to his friends would seem to indicate that the mine must be in the Superstitions.

On the other hand, other areas outside of what we commonly refer to as the Superstitions are far more promising in geological terms for finding gold, as for instance with the Goldfield hills just west of the range, or the numerous silver and copper mines found to the east of the range or even a part of the Superstitions as it was considered in the 1800s. Also, according to the Holmes manuscript, Dick Holmes trailed Waltz to the Four Peaks range before heading south and across the Salt river, if Waltz had discovered that he was being trailed while camped in the Four Peaks he might well have led his tracker away from the location of the mine before laying a trap for him. The Four Peaks area has a number of lost mines associated with the range, often with similar features to the LDM legend.

I would like to hear the opinions/thoughts/evidence of others, thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

 

[azdave35]

I had intended to just post a 'bump' on this thread, in hopes of an update from the original poster. However as this remains a rather intriguing question, how certain is it that the Lost Dutchman's mine is in the Superstitions, I am still interested in reading the opinions/evidence of others on the question.

For instance, in favor of the gold mine being located inside the Superstitions, we know that Waltz was trailed into these mountains on several occasions, each attempt however failing to follow him to the mine itself. The story of Phipps if true, along with the fake Roland Gassler having similar ore shown to Tom Kollenborn, reputedly taken from the (now missing) backpack of Walt Gassler, and also the clues and statements from Waltz to his friends would seem to indicate that the mine must be in the Superstitions.

On the other hand, other areas outside of what we commonly refer to as the Superstitions are far more promising in geological terms for finding gold, as for instance with the Goldfield hills just west of the range, or the numerous silver and copper mines found to the east of the range or even a part of the Superstitions as it was considered in the 1800s. Also, according to the Holmes manuscript, Dick Holmes trailed Waltz to the Four Peaks range before heading south and across the Salt river, if Waltz had discovered that he was being trailed while camped in the Four Peaks he might well have led his tracker away from the location of the mine before laying a trap for him. The Four Peaks area has a number of lost mines associated with the range, often with similar features to the LDM legend.

I would like to hear the opinions/thoughts/evidence of others, thank you in advance.
Oroblanco

roy...i knew a fella that swore the ldm was north of cave creek ..he had the stone maps all figured out and matched them up to his area...he even had the gold ...and of course milton rose...he found the ldm in four peaks...he also had gold

 

[captain1965]

I'm sure Julia Roberts and Rinehart didn't make the mistake in searching in the wrong mountain range.

 

[captain1965]

I'm sure Julia Thomas and Rinehart didn't make the mistake in searching in the wrong mountain range.

 

[captain1965]

Lol spell check

 

[markmar]

Also , John Reed and his father met Waltz in the Superstitions , at the rich Mexicans mine .

 

[Oroblanco]

I'm sure Julia Roberts and Rinehart didn't make the mistake in searching in the wrong mountain range.

Can we be 100% certain that they did not make such a mistake? After all, Julia (Thomas) did pass right by the Goldfield hills, and Roberts did not run into the Superstitions when he knew that Waltz was dead, he went to the Four Peaks area.

It gets worse (of course) for the various versions do not agree on the location either. The stories (Julia/Reiney & Holmes) have details that oddly match with the older Peralta/Ludy story, to include the funnel shaped pit, the lone survivor fleeing out of the mountains after a surprise Indian attack etc. The alternate version (from the Pioneer Interviews, not available online as far as I know) have the mine in a side canyon off Pinto creek, rather far from Weavers Needle, and no massacre, no funnel shaped pit etc. To top it off, treasure writers, (Sims Ely included here) have blended in lost mine stories that certainly appear to be unrelated, like the lost gold of Apache Jack, or the dry placer of the Mexican woman. How many clues have been taken from unrelated tales, and blended into the LDM legend?

Dave it is funny you mention the Cave Creek theory, had heard that some years ago from an acquaintance, who pointed out that same region is where Dick Holmes had his Onyx mine. My bet is that danged few Dutch hunters are looking in the Cave Creek area, perhaps it should be given more attention?

Markmar wrote

Also , John Reed and his father met Waltz in the Superstitions , at the rich Mexicans mine

Reed is a problem, since at best he was a mere child when this supposed encounter (or robberies) took place, and worse, Reed described a dry placer, not a lode. Just a personal opinion but I suspect that Reed was attempting to insinuate himself into the LDM legend, in hopes of establishing some kind of a legal claim on the mine if and when someone were to find it. Otherwise his description of the gold mine does not tally with the gold in quartz at all.

Please do continue;
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

PS forgot to add, the 2 Soldiers tale, which appears to have been transplanted by Barry Storm into the Superstitions.

 

[azdave35]

PS forgot to add, the 2 Soldiers tale, which appears to have been transplanted by Barry Storm into the Superstitions.

roy..i saw the gold from the mine near cave creek....i was helping him work the mine...it was very rich ore...white quartz with veins of gold running through it

 

[Loke]

Darn it - my first encounter with the Superstitions was when visiting my daughter - who lived at ... Cave Creek (at the time) - had I but known ...

 

[Oroblanco]

roy..i saw the gold from the mine near cave creek....i was helping him work the mine...it was very rich ore...white quartz with veins of gold running through it

Any chance he found a rusty pick near by, stuck in the rock or in a very old cactus? Then again, gold in white quartz is not so rare, heck the Bulldog ore was a gold in white quartz for instance. Is it a coincidence that same area is where the lost Pick mine is supposed to be?

Loke wrote

Darn it - my first encounter with the Superstitions was when visiting my daughter - who lived at ... Cave Creek (at the time) - had I but known ...

It is never too late, of course the mine Dave refers to may well be played out, but you could find it!

 

[azdave35]

Any chance he found a rusty pick near by, stuck in the rock or in a very old cactus? Then again, gold in white quartz is not so rare, heck the Bulldog ore was a gold in white quartz for instance. Is it a coincidence that same area is where the lost Pick mine is supposed to be?

Loke wrote


It is never too late, of course the mine Dave refers to may well be played out, but you could find it!

roy...the old guy i was working with found 18 mines in the area..all were backfilled by the indians (according to him)...he was in the process of reopening the mines and digging them out...as he was digging out the shaft he kept running into this very rich ore...he came to the conclusion that when the indians backfilled the mine they filled it with the stock pile..the tails and dump material...the mine is still owned by his family