Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

[NativeOne]

Question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof of the Lost Dutchmans Mine

[Blindbowman]

its not the only prooof , its just the only one they will except ...for the permits .. ..i got around that ... lol

[Oroblanco]

Yes the ore itself is the only evidence that can prove scientifically, that someone has found the Lost Dutchman GOLD MINE. It is a gold mine amigos; if you wish to have the glory of being the finder, you must EARN that honor by getting the ore and having it compared by a geologist with existing specimens of Waltz's ore. If your site really is the Lost Dutchman mine, then getting that ore sample is just a bit more work for you. We don't need to see railroad cars full of gold, a piece of ore the size of a walnut will almost certainly be enough to do the comparison. Nothing else will do, sorry.
Oroblanco

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Well oro if you havent already im sure of one thing you will get some gold to see and to hold. Regardless of that "fact," Ive said before that was a fantastic defense for over 100 years, before the Todays Days Of 3D Google Earth And it worked very well for proof to be proven. However we are now living in a new world of high tech advancement including artificial intellegence, people especially kids, are smarter than ever. "You can play your 100 year old old timers tune of show me the ore

[Oroblanco]

Come down off my high horse? Who is the person claiming to have found the lost Dutchman gold mine here amigo, do you think it is me, or is it you? Legend in my own mind? Again, did I claim to have found the lost Dutchman gold mine, or was that you? I am just a treasure hunter and prospector just like most of the other members here. I do agree with you on one single point of this rather ridiculous dodge of a post you had there amigo, that is how many people believe you. If you think most people believe you have found the lost dutchman gold mine, why should it bother you if someone you never even met, doesn't believe you? Your argument is more of the same, so don't go telling me about '100 year old defense' amigo, when the ORE is the only thing that can prove the case. Don't take my word for it, see how it goes for you with out that ore. Don't be too surprised if the television interviewer wants to see that ore specimen and an opinion from a qualified geologist who has compared it with known specimens from Waltz however.

Oh and one more thing - you need not put gold in MY hand, I am not a geologist; you could put gold ore from another similar mine into my hand and I could very easily be fooled. I can tell the different types pretty well but am still very much a student in geology. So my opinion is not going to help prove the case for CNN, you need a qualified geologist. I would suggest Tom Kollenborn. I sure would love to see photos of your gold ore (if your site really ever had any) but you don't need to put any in my hand. No one ever trusts me enough to be putting their gold into my hands anyway!

I realize that you will probably take this completely wrong, when really I am trying to help you avoid a lot of embarrassment and letdown. If your site really is the Lost Dutchman gold mine, you ought to be able to get a sample of the ore with some effort. It is not a personal attack, I don't much care if you claim to have gone to the Moon in a minivan, but if you want that fame and glory you have to earn it. The ore amigo, the ore!

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

"you need a qualified geologist. I would suggest Tom Kollenborn." Hey now! You know Tom and Jim Rate (A NUMBER #1) In my book, and are held in the highest regards, and highly recommended individuals. Thank You Roy

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

ROY WROTE: "I realize that you will probably take this completely wrong, when really """"I am trying to help you avoid a lot of embarrassment and letdown."""" There is an old saying ROY "If you loved me you could read my mind" I John V. Kemm solemnly swear that if any group, or individual anywhere in the world "can prove" that I did not find the Lost Dutchmans Mine, I firmly promise """"i will not be embarrassed or let down in any way shape or form you have my word."""" Recorded this 28th day of August 2010 Sincerely John V. Kemm "THIS IS A TOTALLY PUBLIC CHALLENGE" Any Takers?

[Cubfan64]

I John V. Kemm solemnly swear that if any group, or individual anywhere in the world "can prove" that I did not find the Lost Dutchmans Mine, I firmly promise """"i will not be embarrassed or let down in any way shape or form you have my word."""" Recorded this 28th day of August 2010 Sincerely John V. Kemm "THIS IS A TOTALLY PUBLIC CHALLENGE" Any Takers?

I know it's like talking to a brick wall, but I can't help myself . The burden of proof is in YOUR hands Mr. Kemm - it amazes me that an intelligent person can't fathom or refuses to accept that simple scientific concept.

"back to ignore"

[Blindbowman]

ROY WROTE: "I realize that you will probably take this completely wrong, when really """"I am trying to help you avoid a lot of embarrassment and letdown."""" There is an old saying ROY "If you loved me you could read my mind" I John V. Kemm solemnly swear that if any group, or individual anywhere in the world "can prove" that I did not find the Lost Dutchmans Mine, I firmly promise """"i will not be embarrassed or let down in any way shape or form you have my word."""" Recorded this 28th day of August 2010 Sincerely John V. Kemm "THIS IS A TOTALLY PUBLIC CHALLENGE" Any Takers?

lol

with out a legal permit you have found nothing ... ! fact !

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

"I question the concept that 'ore' can be the only proof to the LDM. What if someone found an 'error' to a major clue,
and based on the 'correct' clue, went to a different location where he found most all of the clues related to this site?
If all the Indians, Miners, Dutchman, Deering and Ruth clues could all be placed in one location, within view of each other,
in the places described, shapes as described, would ore still be needed? If the 'symbols and trail' Ruth looked for
on a hill between 2 washes, with an arrow and mine symbol pointing to the mine, the mule trail leading right to the mine,
were revealed, would the ore be needed? If one could match the Peralta sketch map of the Sombrero mine to this canyon,
the trail passing by the Sombrero hill down past the Dutchman cave into the canyon, the brushy side canyon, would the ore
still be the only proof?
I am not trying to be cynical, but the 'bar' seems to be set too high. If you go into the shaft and see gold, you will put
a burden on your shoulders that you cannot carry alone, a life changing event. Unless going public you will be putting
your life in the same situation as those looking for the mine 100 years ago. Maybe someday technology will advance
enough that a 'quartz sample' from the tailings pile can be verified the same as gold. That might remove the need for ore
and all the risked involved to get it and keep it.
For 'reverse engineering', I agree. If someone new the location of the Sombrero mine, 'several' of the Peralta Stones would
'match up'. My favorite is the 'Water over Gold' site, its not in the Wilderness. Now if we can get under 100 degrees...
Take care" Quoted by ancient ones The smartest commenter on treasure net.

[Javaone]

Come on! Cubfan64 - I mean really??! For petes sake... I can't imagine why you ever took him off of "ignore" in the first place.

[Blindbowman]

i wont waste my time ... because you can say what ever you want .. that dose not mean what you found is anything .. finding the LDM is one thing proving it is totally a different thing all together ..

sorry i don't really care what you have found .. it dose not concern me in the lest .. good luck with that ...


ok i will prove my point what is the size & description of your mine ...?

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Ok bb """"Ill Prove my point""""" whats the exact coordinates of your discovery?

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good afternoon SFN: you posted --> The burden of Unproving my LDM discovery is in YOUR hands
***************

Agreed, you are wrong, now prove 'me' wrong !

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Your post to Oro was completely unjustified. What he was suggesting is exactly what you will have to do to the world , prove that you just haven't casually found a coincidental factor of landscape or just another prospect hole.

p.p.s. Just for you , have fun . http://ub-edu.tripod.com/free_online...gy_course.html

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Thank You Real Its Always Been A Pleasure To Be Graced By Your Presence.

[Blindbowman]

and if the topic was about him you would be at lest on topic ...lol

i will do my proveing when the permit is legal

[Blindbowman]

Ok bb """"Ill Prove my point""""" whats the exact coordinates of your discovery?

lol wich one?

[gollum]

Its funny that I can judge a topic by just looking at the posts without even having to read them. I come here and it's "ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore, ignore


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Mike

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

GuLLY GUUUULLY GUUUUUULLYY WHEEEEEEEEZER """""Sticks and Stones""""" "Ancient ones is Talkin to YA" "I respect your reasons for the ore, but put another way....If someone produced ore that verified as LDM,
yet the mine itself had none of the clues other than the Needle to the South, would credit be given that this
is the mine?
None of the versions of how the Dutchman came upon this mine suggest he found a vein, he
came upon a mine that was being worked. Adolph Ruth knew the Sombrero and LDM were one in the same.
The Mexicans knew the mine contained Gold, that is why they gave him 'detailed' instructions/maps.
The Dutchman clues, re-told over the years, have not produced the mine because his clues are too vague. If
one spent the research time on the Indians and Mexicans history of the Sombrero site, one would find the 'details of clues,
markers, symbols' are more specific and detailed versus the LDM. If the Sombrero mine is located, and the clues
for that site fit, and all the Dutchman clues fit as well, the 'ore' will only prove there is still gold left.
The Horsehead/Sphynx are one in the same 500 yds. N of the mine across a gully. Below the mine ledge are 3
large stones: 1 shaped like a Cresent(East end), 100 ft. W is a Traingle shaped rock, 100 ft. S of this is a rock
shaped like a circle. The three form a triangle. These 3 large stones sit on top of flat stones and these were not
done by nature. East of the Cresent stone(between the Horsehead and mine, still below the ledge) are 4 large
flat stones with a smaller stone placed on top. These form a line pointing to the mine. Above the mine is a
cave at the base of a cliff. 30 ft. in front are 3 triangle shaped rocks, 1 perched on top of the other 2. Are these
known clues? Sure. But what if someone could give exact details, ft. or yd. distances of these clues, photos,
maybe even unknown clues like shaft symbols carved in the wall, concealled shafts, tailings piles? If one could
prove this is the Sombrero Mine, which has the 'documented' maps and clues, in detail, the clues told by others
that visited the site, 'ore' would not be needed to prove it. You can see the Apache/Military Trail from the mine,
sun setting to the West, Needle to the South, Hole in a crevice behind Bush on 12' ledge. Want more?

There is no exemption of acres set aside, no Senator with a plan. I am not aware of any Dutchhunter website or
group willing to do anything other than to discourage or require someone to produce 'ore', which is about gold
and not claiming a discovery of a mine. The history of this mine is easy to prove, the clues well documented and
detailed. The clues and maps to the site lead to the same place.
If someone had the photos, locations, symbols, markers, trails, clues of the Indians, Mexicans, Adolph Ruths
Mexican maps and directions/trail symbols leading to this site, NO Dutchman clues, would 'ore' be required to
verify this as the Peraltas Sombrero Mine? No.
I understand the 'requirement' to verify the LDM vein, but proving the documented history of the site must come
from many sources, ore can be one.

Please don't take my words harsh, been under alot of stress
B" Quoted By Ancient Ones

[Oroblanco]

Santa Fe NM wrote

Sorry Little Baby boys Nothing you can do to stop me and your cheap shots give you the intellect of 2 year olds throwing a tantrum in a publicly viewed forum. I guess that officially makes me your "permanent baby sitter" and im very much up to the challenge, in other words im here to stay Mehitos. Im am proving this my way by my rules. You are entitled to your opinions and i am entitled to mine thats the beauty of free enterprise. and being a real American. The real Beef here is i beat every one to the punch. Im truly the Winner and those "few of you here" that havent personally contacted me and congrated me. Obviously dont want to share my glory can wallow in there own short comings.



I have a BIG movie contract & Books En Route Plus Plus plus. EAT YOUR HEARTS OUT LOL TTUS talk to you's soon. By the way how many of "you" are there again?

Your glory, a big movie contract, "little baby boys" amigo you are the one coming across childish. Listen to Blindbowman, he is telling you FACT;

you can say what ever you want .. that dose not mean what you found is anything .. finding the LDM is one thing proving it is totally a different thing all together ..

Santa Fe NM also wrote, quoting Ancient Ones

I am not aware of any Dutchhunter website or group willing to do anything other than to discourage or require someone to produce 'ore', which is about gold and not claiming a discovery of a mine.

Are you not aware of this website? Who exactly is discouraging you, telling you to stay away from the Superstitions, don't look for the gold mine etc? Isn't it quite the other way around? You have said that you have no interest in gold and no interest in mining, so I fail to understand what attracts you about the gold mine of Jacob Waltz anyway? I am interested in gold and in mining, so it has a double attraction for me, as it does for many others here - this is a group of treasure hunters after all, not a bunch of celebrity wannabes. Is it celebrity that you are after? It sure looks that way to me. You won't listen to me, but I would suggest there are other, better and easier ways to become a celebrity John. Hunting for lost gold mines is a search for gold, a search for a mine - not so much for fame since that will not last, but gold does.

What exactly prevents you from obtaining a specimen of gold ore from your discovery John? Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco