In this thread I hope to collectively review the various published solutions to the stone charts. Please feel free to post your comments and or observations. I will begin with Crawford's Trail Map, which I must say is an amazing effort and one that should not be ignored. My initial concern with the Crawford map is the meandering, difficult route it requires to reach the end of the trail... which begins in Queen Valley(!!). A much shorter and perhaps less arduous trail would begin in Gold Canyon.
Red = Trail stone
Green = Access Road
The Crawford Trail Map Reproduced in Google Earth
Crawford's End of Trail (Topo) - Note: Cave
Crawford's Search Area - Note: Circular Anomaly
Anomaly In Crawford's Search Area - Size: 30' x 30'
Very interesting. I think I've seen it before, but not on a satelite photo. Nice work.
Is there a reason known as to why he chose that position for the trail?
Also, do the red dots merely represent the Trail Map spots, or do they show items which actually exist along that route?
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
Yes, there are a few questions that need to be answered. The Red Dots are a direct transfer from Crawford's map. They do seem to consistently mark prominent geographic features such as summits, which I find incredible. Then there is the strange anomaly that is sitting right in the middle of Crawford's search area. I can not comment about the positioning of Crawford's Trail Map, but the fact that it begins in Queen Valley is something that I find very strange. There are a few stories about Queen Valley that pertain to the DLM and gold.
Crawford seems to have been a unique individual.
But his (Crawford's) story is a sad one.
The topo reminded me of this Apache Junction Library map---
I have no idea if they might be somehow related or not, but it does show that there was some additional interest in that area, which seems interesting....
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
Google Earth is such an incredible tool. Here is the Crawford Trail Map (Red) and the Wagoner Map (Blue) positioned in GE. The idea of a possible connection is something to consider since both trails terminate in the same general location. Still even stranger is the fact that both maps begin in Queen Valley.
The Wagoner Mine:
"Fred Mullins, a stage coach driver out of Pinal, told a story about a man who discovered gold on the west side of Picacho Butte in 1894. Picacho Butte is the hill east of Whiskey Spring. The man, named Wagoner would board the stage in Pinal and depart in the desert on the south side of the Superstition Mountains near the Whitlow Ranch. After taking out hand picked rose-quartz gold ore he would meet the stage for a ride back to Pinal. Wagoner told Mullins his route from Whitlow Ranch was up Randolph Canyon, up the Red Tank Canyon, down LaBarge and around Picacho Butte. Wagoner said he concealed the outcropping with brush and rocks and planted a circle of trees around the site so he could locate it in the future. In 1952, gold in rose-quartz float was found by prospector and miner Ray Howland on the west side of Picacho Butte. No one has reported the exact location of Wagoner's diggings".
Wagoner Trail Map (Blue):
Possible Wagoner Search Areas - Note: Exposed Ridge (Fault?)
Hal,
Thank you for putting a lot more 'meat on the bone' !!
There were some discussions on the wagoners ledge in a previous topic (http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,355988.0.html), but it kinda petered out ...
I am looking for any information regarding the settling of Queen Valley. Seems more difficult than it should be. Thanks in advance!
Hal
Loke,
Regarding Wagoner's ledge.... what exactly do you think the "ledge" is? I have been reading up on this story and the use of the word "ledge" seems misleading.
1). a narrow horizontal surface projecting from a wall, cliff, or other surface : he heaved himself up over a ledge.
2). an underwater ridge, esp. of rocks beneath the sea near the shore.
3). Mining a stratum of metal- or ore-bearing rock; a vein of quartz or other mineral.
Wagoner seems to have almost "tripped" over the site, which tells me that it must be a small rock formation detached from Picacho Butte, perhaps in an area one mile west of whisky Springs.
@Hal,
I guess the definition of the word 'ledge' is all in the eyes of the be(er)holder.
Me, I would primarily go for 1), but I would not discount 3) - or - it could be a combination of 1) and 3).
Both of them would seem to me to qualify as a "I stumbled upon it" - which I believe is the case ...
"Wagoner seems to have almost "tripped" over the site, which tells me that it must be a small rock formation detached from Picacho Butte, perhaps in an area one mile west of whisky Springs."
If the story is true, I have always thought Coffee Flat Mountain, right next to Picacho Butte, was a viable search area. Believe there was a canyon on the south end that used to be called Javelina Canyon. Some may recall that name from another story.
The Kollenborn map is one that I find myself returning to over and over again. As many of you know, I believe that the "Trail" map leads to a location in Peter's Canyon and while I have never shared my placement of the entire map, I will do so in the following posts. The Kollenborn map (and I honestly do not know its history) begins in Tortilla Flat then snakes its way up through Peter's Canyon, leaving the canyon following what appears to be a marked trail. For those of you who have never hiked up Peter's Canyon, following the canyon floor with a pack animal I believe would be next to impossible. The Kollenborn map seems to provide a workable solution. Unfortunately the map ends above Tortilla Flat, but the location I describe as the "end of the trail" can be reached this way. Remember... the trail stone offers two approaches to the center of the heart and I believe that Tom K. may have identified one of them... specifically the arrow trail.
I like that map by Mr. Kollenborn, because it includes "The Trick in the Trail." And apparently there is a rock "face" right around there, too.
The "Pit and Tunnel" seem to be a little further down Peter's Canyon, along with the "Casa Caverna." But there is a version of Waltz's instructions that has him saying, "There were two holes dug by the Spanish, and I dug a third."
What's lacking in the map, though, is "X marks the spot" of the LDM!
Any ideas about that?
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
The "X" marks the spot... yes I believe that I know where it is, however before I share that location I would like to provide as much evidence as possible to support my placement of the stone charts. For me, Kollenborn's map confirms my belief that Tortilla Flat was an important mining camp (or base) at one time and that expeditions into Peter's Canyon (to the heart) began there.
That "trick in the trail" that Kollenborn describes is an important clue... I doubt that even he understood just how important. But even more important is the two room cave that was discovered by K. Painter. I have previously shared this caves discovery and the fact that Spanish writing can be found on its walls. The amazing thing is that the directions from this cave to the "X" seem to match 100% the directions Waltz gave from his two room cave. The distance to the mine in this North running canyon is exactly as Waltz describes. If Waltz was mining the Superstitions, this location that I claim is the end of the trail and the Dutchman's Lost Mine are one in the same.
But again, one would need to believe that the Superstitions contain substantial deposits of gold, silver and other precious minerals. I believe that they do base on professional sampling performed in the area I describe.
There are several maps on the Apache junction Public Library Website which indicate arrastres on the South side of the Salt River, in the Tortilla Flat area, and mines to the South of them. Here is one map in particular, which links them to a pit-tunnel-cave configuration.
Very interesting. I'd like to hear more of your theory.
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
EE THr,
I am short on time tonight, however this map that you posted (Back South - Up Drainage).... it terminates at K. Painter's two room cave. The "End of the Trail" is a short hike from there. Look for the heart... it is very clear. Nice work.
For those of you who can-not or have-not been to this site, here is an image of Tom Kollenborns "Trick in the Trail".
OK, I am going to begin posting details from the heart and trail stone. When placed as I believe is correct, this is the cross at the beginning of the trail (enclosed in parenthesis). This feature is not visible on any topo map which points to an aerial map being used.
Alright, here is a sample of the "trail" as I have placed it. The blue line is the actual traced trail from the stones and the red is a "viable" path. I have not hike this from begining to end, however I have done the part of the hike. There are two specific locations that would be difficult to navigate... anyone familiar with the terrain will see this. I did not distort or alter the overlay in any way except the scale. Once one does alter the proportions I believe that the placement becomes invalid. So, I am holding onto my ankles and looking forward to a healthy debate.
I will add details next.
Ok, this thread is very interesting to me, but I won't participate if you are going to pull the thread and all the info we all contribute goes to hell. Sorry but that is how I feel.
I think you have some very interesting and provoking insights and would love to further the conversation. But can you just lock the thing down rather than toss it?
Thanks,
Janiece
Allo, which came first. the Dutchman or the stones?
Since the Dutchman came first, I tend to believe that if the stones weren't for Reevis, then they were made to divert others away from his primary search area. apparently he was extremely effective.
This also explains why he continued looking for the Dutchman for years, but, he wasn't using any of the data on the stones, but older data. soooo go to where he went, not to where the stones say.
so Ignore any data that came 'after' they supposedly first came to light.
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Some may recall that name from another story. 
