Adolph Ruth

[cactusjumper]

Everyone interested in the LDM, has heard the story of Adolph Ruth. Much has been put into print and like the stories of Jacob Waltz, everyone has a different opinion as to what happened.

My own theory, is that there was a cover-up from the start. I don't believe Ruth, Purnell and Keenan started into Willow Spring from First Water Ranch. I have it from a very reliable source, that Tom Kollenborn asked Tex, they were good friends, if the story as told was the truth.

I am told that Tex swore it was true and that they had left from First Water. That was good enough for Tom Kollenborn, and it was said.......good enough for everyone else.

My question is: Why did Mr. Kollenborn have to ask the question in the first place? Was there some controversy?

Below is a seldom published picture showing the hole in the right side of Adolph Ruth's skull. Above that is a very clear picture of Tex Barkley with Ruth's remains. Both pictures were taken by, D.E. Newcomer.

Joe Ribaudo

[the blindbowman]

you both bring up some good topics , frist let me say i beleave your right about the remains being moved . look where the teeth are in the picture ..my piont being you wouldnt put your teeth out in the open like maybe a pocket or in your hat for the night . this would go to say he was shot in the daytime and the site was in fact staged ..i have been working with the ruth map going on 17 years ruth would not have been over there ...its funny who moved the body would pick that location . maybe when ruth was flushed off his site he took the same dirrection the massacre spainish did ...

i dont by it the site looks staged . the rock hammer is up where the head of the hammer can be seen the gun in plan few the thremos with the top on and the teeth all looked staged ...look at the bones side by side as if someone had carried them to that location . remeber we were told the bones had been move by animals why didnt the animals move the objects around , only one good reason for that they did and someone put those things there for that picture or had moved the remains before anyone else knew ...

i well ask a question to see if anyone can list the missing bones that were not found of ruths body .. there is a good reason i ask ... i beleave his bones were moved after he was found not when he was killed ...if anyone can answer the querstion i asked and list the bones in detail , than i will explan why i asked ...

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

"It's also my belief that anyone who thinks Ruth wasn't murdered is an idiot. It's the who and why that matter at this point."

Not sure why who murdered Ruth is the "point" anymore. They are all dead.

"I also have always wondered why Ruth would even be on that side of the mountains, if the map I've seen of his is correct. He should have stayed where he was, and shouldn't have wandered too far."

This seems to be the important detail. Chances are, we are all being led around by the nose. Ruth was exactly where he wanted to be. He saw something on the way in, that convinced him he was in the right place.

We are told they came in First Water Creek. What would he have seen to convince him he was in the right place? Perhaps you should make that hike. It could be that Ruth had another map......in his head. "Veni, vidi, vici....200 feet across from cave."

It's likely Ruth never left West Boulder alive. If that's true, what's meant by the above quote? If Ruth found anything, it was very close to Willow Spring. Did Ruth see the last picture below, from a lower elevation...like in the valley, assuming they came in that way.

I will post a picture of the Spaniards escape route. If you make that hike, you will come out of a canyon....right into the valley. If you had any choice, would you pick the valley for your escape or would you pick some other way out of the mountains?

It's amazing how many people make comments about the Massacre Ground and how they got there, while it's obvious they have no clue as to the terrain in the Superstitions or what route makes sense.

Just food for thought.

Joe Ribaudo

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

Two things: Ruth says in his letter, that he is "just north and west of Weaver's Needle, and "left my car at the Barkley Ranch". That's not what he would have said, if he left his car at First Water.

[The hike from First Water to Willow Springs? Or the hike from his camp to where he was "found"?]

The hike from First Water via First Water Creek.

Joe

Have no idea where "Second" came from. Must have been a senior moment. Thanks for the correction.

[the blindbowman]

now you are confuseing even me ,why would you think Cj that he had came in from frist water . your own uncle,s tracing dosent come in from there

i agree with Djui5

i have no data of any kind pionting to frist water or second water . other than the dutchmans trail back to san carlos in the dick holmes acount ,

[cactusjumper]

I don't believe Adolph Ruth came into Willow Spring from First Water.

The Frank Fish Map does not show a trail at all. It's a map of the general area. There is no "trail" or direction to travel on the map. My uncle's tracing doesn't "come in" from anywhere.

Brain-fart on writing Second Water instead of First Water. Sorry if it confused anyone.

Joe

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

Unless you are used to riding, that ride feels like fifty miles. I would know that pretty well. Your miles from First Water are pretty close. Ruth's notes were not altered.

Joe

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

The terrain distance from First Water to Willow Spring going up First Water Creek to Willow Spring is 4.78 miles. Leaving Bark's Ranch and taking the trail to Fremont Pass, and then working your way up onto the ridge to the west and down into West Boulder and Willow Spring is around 7.12 terrain miles.

That ride would be an E-Ticket. If anyone has made that hike they will probably tell you it's two (2) E-Tickets, especially on the back of a horse or mule.

Joe

[the blindbowman]

I don't believe Adolph Ruth came into Willow Spring from First Water.

The Frank Fish Map does not show a trail at all. It's a map of the general area. There is no "trail" or direction to travel on the map. My uncle's tracing doesn't "come in" from anywhere.

Brain-fart on writing Second Water instead of First Water. Sorry if it confused anyone.

Joe

"The Frank Fish Map does not show a trail at all. It's a map of the general area. There is no "trail" or direction to travel on the map. "

that statement is out right not true .... , what part you ask , the whole statement , it not only gives a dirrections it gives you a azimuth bearing to mark the trail ...as a navagational specialest i noted it as soon as you posted the traceing , thats why i PM you ! asking you if your tracing had el sombero on it ?

[the blindbowman]

take my word for that . you do not want me to tell you what that maps says here in open forum ... but yes i can prove that out right ...

[the blindbowman]

CJ,
Well that's interesting. I've been meaning to take the hike from the South, over Freemont Saddle. One of these days...


BB,
Post it! Chicken!

i took a picture from the same place the tracing was made from ... i knew it the second he posted the tracing ....

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

The reason it's impossible, is because the original Fish Map would have to have been drawn from an airplane......for you to take a picture showing the whole thing.

Speaking of Uncle Chuck.....Here we are working a Topo of the Superstitions. That's my copy of "Killer Mountains" by, Curt Gentry on the couch. I had hair back then, but was working towards the Uncle Chuck look.

Joe

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

My mom just found it and sent it to me. Hadn't seen it in years. She took one from the other side of the couch as well.

Lot's of folks get tied up in treasure hunting, espcially Dutch Hunters, and loose all perspective of reality as they get older. Obie Stoker was one of them. Some will tell you I am too , and I ain't so sure about you.

Joe

Here's a better picture of Chuck:

[cactusjumper]

F-A-M-I-L-Y.

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=djui5 that's a great picture! I can see the family resemblence (spelling?
)***********

"P H A M B L Y" dummie. How do you ever expect to find the LDM?

Don Jose de La Mancha Tropical tramp

[cactusjumper]

T.T.,

You say Randy is looking for the LDM? If I had known that earlier, I would have been much more guarded in our conversations. You just never know who to trust these days.

Randy,

Say it ain't so.

Joe

[the blindbowman]

Veni, vidi, vici....

i want to post this so others under stand it . the words were not found on ruth's paper found in his pocket . only the words (Veni ,vidi ) were on that paper .. i have seen this misspoken twice on this site so far ,in two diffrent place on the site ..all three words were not on the paper .. i just wanted to defind the topic ...

[the blindbowman]

have you herd of the tv show that clay worst ,ron fledman ,jim hatt , bob corbin ,and tom kollenborn did they showed the real paper on that show and i read it word for word hunderds of times over and over , take my word for it .... it was a A&E special ...it is a matter of public record ..

[Colorado Mine Hunter]

Does anyone know any more about this program, such as approximately what year it was broadcast? I would very much like to see it.

[the blindbowman]

Does anyone know any more about this program, such as approximately what year it was broadcast? I would very much like to see it.

the show was on the biography channel when i taped it ... this last year .it was about the lost dutchman ! hope that helps , i guess you could ask jim hatt at (usa desert ) dirrectly . he would know more about it,...