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  1. #16
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Good Morning Mr Oro,
    I agree... peglegs gold has been found and lost many many many times. Through my research, it shows that there are 3 main peglegs. The first being Thomas L and the story of the " golden bullets ", the second being the Yuma soldier and dr deCource connection, and the third ( and most unknown ) is the guide out of Yuma- the one that Bookaroo is talking about. It's the peeling of the layers that gets one to the real story. Did more than one Smith lose his leg ?? Most people talk about how this was after the civil war and that there were many people who came out west disfigured. But according to this version the story, it began in 1853 ( " which had its original inception in 1853 when “Peg-Leg” Smith wandered into Mojave with nearly ten thousand dollars’ worth of black nuggets in his possession. " ).Also, according to the story " he had been living with the Yuma and the Cocopah Indians along the Colorado River for several years ", Dr de Cource did live in Yuma and he also married a local Quechan maiden. This is why I feel these passages are from the lost soldier connection ( not the Civil War but someone stationed out during the expansion of the west ). Here is the History of Ft Yuma:

    First established on November 27, 1850, it was originally located in the bottoms near the Colorado River, less than a mile below the mouth of the Gila. In March 1851 the post was moved to a small elevation on the Colorado's west bank, opposite the present city of Yuma, Arizona, on the site of the former Mission Puerto de la Purisima Concepcion. This site had been occupied by Camp Calhoun, named for John C. Calhoun, established on October 2, 1849, by 1st lieutenant Cave J. Couts, 1st Dragoons, for the boundary survey party led by 2nd Lieutenant Amiel W. Whipple, Corps of Topographical Engineers. A ferry service, maintained by the soldiers for the survey party's convenience, also accommodated emigrants. Fort Yuma was established to protect the southern emigrant travel route to California and to attempt control of the warlike Yuma Indians in the surrounding 100 mile area.

    Established by Captain Samuel P. Heintzelman, 2nd Infantry, it was originally named Camp Independence. In March 1851, when the post was moved to its permanent site, its name was changed to Camp Yuma. A year later the post was designated Fort Yuma. In June 1851 the Army virtually abandoned the post because of the high costs incurred in maintaining it, and it was completely abandoned on December 6, 1851, when its commissary was practically empty of provisions.

    The post, however, was reoccupied by Captain Heintzelman on February 29, 1852. In 1864 the Quartermaster Corps erected a depot on the left bank of the Colorado, below the mouth of the Gila River. When the extension of the railroad system obviated the need of a supply depot, Fort Yuma was abandoned on May 16, 1883. The reservation was transferred to the Interior Department on July 22, 1884. Today, the site of the military reservation is occupied by the Fort Yuma Indian School and a mission.


    Oro, you know that I consider you one of the top 3 or 4 guys on this site when it comes to your knowledge of lost treasures and mines. However, there are only 2 stories that I have REALLY researched, pegleg and the lost ship of the desert. Because I concentrated on only these stories I have TONS of info. One of which I will share with you here and now. Philip Bailey ( who -in my opinion- has the most detailed account of the many peglegs life ) wrote Golden Mirages in 1940, had researched his book for 20 yrs before. His he a complete chronology of Thomas L's life and here is a piece of that writing. Please note the year and the last part of the page...

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    Continued below

    PLL

  2. #17
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Here is one of many stories and notes from Bailey. Here he interviews a man named Schrum, lets the man have his say... and then look at the notes on the 2nd pg. I have approx 2000 pages from Bailey's notes and manuscripts just like this, and this is why I have come to the conclusion that Thomas L never found any gold... Sorry

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    PLL

  3. #18
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    And finally, here is what Bailey had to say about the " true story " of pegleg.

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    I am anxiously waiting to hear your reply Mr Oro and company.

    PLL

  4. #19
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    auferret wrote
    Quote from: Oroblanco on Today at 12:31:06 AM
    It seems that perhaps Pegleg's gold has been found (and lost) repeatedly?
    And, only by one legged men or indian widows......I wonder if my insurance will cover a voluntary amputation.
    Ouch! I will be the first to admit that I am NOT as tough as old Pegleg, to do an amputation on myself!
    There are several other reports of folks who found black nuggets of gold in the same (general) area, including an Indio or Mexican vaquero who worked on a local ranch, a treasure hunter named John Mitchell (who was hunting a meteorite at the time) Crazy Ike, among others. I don't think it is a requirement to be one-legged, but perhaps that WAS a factor?

    Pegleglooker wrote
    And finally, here is what Bailey had to say about the " true story " of pegleg.
    First THANK YOU buddy for posting these, very interesting material! Bailey is not the first to conclude that Pegleg didn't find any gold I ran across several articles published in the 1890s that came to the same conclusion, namely that Smith (and or Smiths plural) were nothing but first-class liars. However even if Smith was simply lying, the story originated -somewhere- and black-crusted gold nuggets have been found, reportedly in the Colorado desert as well as in Arizona. For this reason I do not utterly dismiss the story of Smith finding it in the first place, even in a separate expedition from that with Dutch Yount.

    Side note here but I am jealous of your research on Pegleg and the Pearl Ship amigo! I know how much work it takes not to mention time in hunting up information. My first 'expedition' to hunt for Pegleg's gold was based on just one source, which was the aforementioned Mitchell, and needless to say we found -zilch-. In subsequent trips we covered a lot of ground and included much more source material, and I am convinced that there are rich gold placers there still un-discovered. For example we spent a week panning out samples from each and every gully and dry wash along a particular stretch of the Chocolates, and without giving away too much info there were gold showings in a rather large percentage of the samples. You have probably been there yourself as well as the Chuckwallas and Orocopias, you can find stringers of black sands in numerous areas and a great many of them will pan out a few colors of gold. In the Borregos I never found much in the way of gold, though I know there was supposed to be something like $19,000 in gold produced from one particular canyon (please feel free to correct me on this I am working from memory alone) heck I couldn't even pan out a single color of gold in many samples.

    Whether good-old-fashioned prospecting techniques would be able to trace down "Pegleg's" gold I can't say, but I think if a guy or gal had time enough and were diligent, it should be possible. Among many of the old newspaper stories (not always the best sources but fairly good usually) it was reported that most "old timers" thought that the Pegleg deposit was another of those rare "chimney" type gold deposits, like Rich Hill in AZ. If they were right (and I can't prove it wrong) then the amount of gold that could be present would stagger the imagination.

    I take it then that you (personally) are convinced there never was a "Pegleg" lost mine amigo Pegleglooker? What about the black coated nuggets sent in to Desert magazine? Why do we have a fellow going by the name of "Pegleg Smith" present in California, selling directions and "maps" to the 49'ers, as reported in some of the very first English-language newspapers published in CA? There is "a lot of smoke", and perhaps there never was any lost Pegleg mine, but I sure had a blast hunting for it, and got to trek over some of the most beautiful country in America.

    Here is the map published in Desert magazine

    The editors drew that big circle, apparently mis-reading what "the man who found Pegleg's gold" actually wrote, which was, quote
    I will say only that it is less than 30 miles from the Salton Sea and within the confines of the map on page 10 of the November 1946 issue of Desert Magazine.
    The region he was referring to includes a MUCH larger area, and would include several mountain ranges on the north and east, areas which have historically produced considerable gold - unlike Borrego.

    Then there is the map of Adolph Ruth mentioned by our amigo Cactusjumper, another interesting 'tidbit' - perhaps there is gold in Borrego after all?

    Oroblanco
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  5. #20
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Oro,
    I thank you for answering this blog,and let me first say that Bailey spent 20 years researching his book before it went to print. And I agree with his findings. But there are a couple of things that have been brought up by you and Bookaroo that make my head tilt. But first let me answer one of your questions. You wrote: " I take it then that you (personally) are convinced there never was a "Pegleg" lost mine amigo Pegleglooker? " The answer YES I truly believe there is gold and it was found by a man named Smith and he " may " have had a pegleg, just not the trapper Smith. When one reads the research, the first thing you have to do is to strip the stories associated with the trapper Smith and see what's left. That's what I did with Bookaroo's post. One of the first things I did was to buddy up with writers to find out how they write and what's important... and how to read through it. Example in Book's post it read as follows :

    For several days he lay abed, gripping the saddle-bags which had been brought into his rooms in one of the shacks that served as saloon and hotel. When he recovered consciousness and health, he opened the saddle-bags and satisfied the curiosity of the hundred or so prospectors who were working in the vicinity.

    What they saw startled them. It was black gold. Nuggets, hundreds of them, as black as coal on the outside, but pure dull gold within.

    But then the writer quote pegleg as follows:

    Smith was running short of food and water and could take only a few pounds on the already overcrowded mule, and these he placed in his saddle-bags, proceeding then on his route.

    So how can one have " hundreds " of nuggets yet only " a few pounds " of color ?? Doesn't add up. But which is true. I would lean towards the " few pounds " before " hundreds " of nuggets. I just feel that you have to read thoroughly and maybe reread it again and again tell something pops out.
    As for the Chocolate's, Chuckwallas and Orocopias, this area has been know for gold deposits for y e a r s. Plus you " may " have just given a new clue as well. You quoted:

    " The editors drew that big circle, apparently mis-reading what "the man who found Pegleg's gold" actually wrote, which was,

    I will say only that it is less than 30 miles from the Salton Sea and within the confines of the map on page 10 of the November 1946 issue of Desert Magazine.

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    I wonder how many people have looked at this map for years and have not picked up on the fact that it " may " not be in the circle.... The fact that YOU have been able to find color in these maountain area's mentioned above leads some credence to it... no ??

    Also on the squaw story Book wrote:

    " Hastily the men tried to follow the squaw, but by this time she had disappeared in the same range of mountains to the north from which she had been seen to emerge. "

    Followed by:

    " Only in the northwestern part of the range is there any living water, the Salvation Springs. Other portions of the range contain huge natural tanks in the mountains, which at that time were discovered in all but one or two instances to be dried up. "

    Sounds like to me we are talking about the Santa Rosa's.... no ??

    And finally there is " proof " of the Yount story, the earliest newspaper account I have that mentions trapper Smith is in 1854 from the Alta in San Fransisco

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    But if you read the article dated April 15th 1854 it says " Smith says that 26 years ago ( 1828 ? ) he was traveling there, and a man in his party picked up a piece of yellow metal and called it gold
    Maybe this was the ONLY time he told the truth.....

    The quest should be for perhaps, a trail guide out of Yuma's obscurity. Someone who knew the desert and it's routes, someone who got " paid " for ushering emigrant's through the trials of the desert. And there ' may be just a man.

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    When the Mormon battalion came through in 1846-47 there was a man by the name of Smith in this group. Some of the earliest researchers were calling for a John G or O Smith as a possible candidate. I have this man, he was assigned to Co D, he was NOT part of the party that returned to Ft Leavenworth and was not part of the reenlistment company either. His wife was asking about his pension in 1895

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    sorry about the pix quality ( from foonote.com )

    Who else, but someone from the Mormon Battalion ( who truly cut their way through the desert ), to make a better guide through the desert ?? Just a thought...

    Anybody agree or disagree ??

    PLL



    Also on the squaw story
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  6. #21
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    MUCHAS GRACIAS mi amigo Pegleglooker!

    Now I must point out, if Thomas is not "the" right Pegleg, then why do we find Thomas being named in 1854 newpaper articles? I have run across the John G Smith too, which led me to believe there had to be two Smiths. If the true "original" finder were another Smith than Thomas, shouldn't we find a different name in the oldest accounts? Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco

    PS just wanted to add this, that several people vouched for Thomas Smith having gold nuggets in his possession, here is one example
    "PEGLEG" MINE IS NOT A MYTH Evidence That It Exists in the Bad Lands. Special Klppatch to The Call SAN* DIEGO. Jan. 15. — It seems that the mysterious "Pegleg" mine has not been entirely given up as a myth, for though many prospectors have sought to locate the scene of the fabulous finds and have failed In the attempt, there are others who are willing to endure all sorts of hardship in searching for the mine .of the eccentric old cripple. Men still believe that the mine will be re-located, and there are those who hope to be the successful searchers, and that at no distant day. There is a gentleman residing in San Diego who knew Pegleg Smith and heard from his lips the story of his discovery. Silas Gasklil, who lives at the corner of Sixteenth and F streets, was a neighbor of Smith at Weberville. after the latter claimed he had found his mine. Gasklll's house was not over 100 yards from the cabin of Pegleg. In the evenings young Gasklil would go over and listen to his neighbor's thrilling tales of his experiences as a hunter and a trapper. Pegleg Smith's deformity was not confined to an* absent limb. He had an everpresent appetite, which was inordinately devoted to the fiery liquid. Silas Gaskill liked to hear the old hunter's tales as well as the latter liked the lurid liquor, and was willing to make a fair exchange by embellishing his visits with a pint bottle of Hangtown whisky. This amount was ample to keep his host's highly colored yarns spinning for one ordinary evening. On one of Gaskill's visits Pegleg told of his trip across the desert when he clalmnd to have found his gold. Mr. Gasklil vouches for the truth of the nuggets being in the possession of old Pegleg. He personally saw and handled them. He is furthermore satisfied that .the mysterious mine is a reality, and that It is "situated somewhere in the "bad lands," which lie directly on the route Pegleg must have taken. The reason, he thinks, no one has yet been able to find the mine is that all who have gone in search of it have looked for the ordinary indications of gold, which he is satisfied are entirely absent. The description Mr. Gasklll gives of the location of the mine as given him by Smith is borne out in every respect by an Indian who lives at Mesa Grande. When a boy this Indian was over in the "bad lands" In company with his father. They also picked! up some pieces of blackcoated metal, which they afterward learned were nuggets of gold. A few months ago tho Indian made an attempt to tlnd the place to which he had been with his father. He did not find the identical spot, but was in the neighborhood of it. and brought back a very rich chunk of ore bearing the black covering. His description of the spot visited by him and his father Includes three hills answering the description of those told of by Peg Leg Smith.
    <from The San Francisco Call
    Date: January 16, 1900>
    I put several passages in "bold" to highlight that the Pegleg being described as a "hunter and trapper", that Gaskill held the very nuggets in his hands or claims to, and that it is coated with black.

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  7. #22
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Oro,
    Remember in the mid 1800's Thomas L was the most " known " peglegged Smith. I only posted the article to show that Thomas L did admit HE was NOT the one who found the original gold. I mean they didn't even know it was gold... they thought it was copper ( that's why they used it for bullets ). And the reason we don't find any other early names is because the gold with the " 3 buttes " did not happen til later and possibly the early or mid 1850's. Remember Book's post talks about " original inception in 1853 " so to me that means the pegleg we are looking for came much later than 1826-27 or 28. This is also why John G Smith fits as well, after the march of the Mormon Battalion, he " may " have tried to find work as a guide out of Yuma. Then after awhile headed back east to simply go home....

    PLL

  8. #23
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    I would like to note that the map posted above is the same one that is in the Nov '46 edition of Desert Magazine, including the circle. A copy of that edition is at http://www.scribd.com/doc/2149995/19...-1946-November . I'm not sure which edition had the story of the man that found pegleg's gold but if I remember correctly, they just reprinted the one from Nov '46. Oro...nice catch on the quote not matching the circle on the map.
    The creeks are all cowards and run underground and whiskey is so scarce that you can’t use it to wet down dry jokes. –The Irish Lord 1897

  9. #24
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Hi ferret,
    I have all the copies of the pegleg articles in DM as well as the Letter to the editor. I will post the list later tonight ( I'm moving as we write ).

    PLL

  10. #25
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Most, if not all of the issues of Desert Mag are at http://www.scribd.com/people/view/306526-dm1937 if you didn't know. You can easily search for specific editions in the search box on the left side.

    Edit--- I found it in the March '65 edition at http://www.scribd.com/doc/2402599/19...ine-1965-March . The map is on page 37 and appears to be the same one. The story starts on page 20.
    The creeks are all cowards and run underground and whiskey is so scarce that you can’t use it to wet down dry jokes. –The Irish Lord 1897

  11. #26
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Hi ferret,
    Most of the people who have been on this site for awhile know about scrbd.com and have used it quite a bit. Try searching for mining journals and California and watch what comes up.... Very interesting reading.

    PLL

  12. #27
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    hey guys,
    Here is a list of the Desert Magazine articles about pegleg. Warning!! do NOT consider this list as a TOTAL list. While doing my research on thi, I found other " letters to the editor " and some other small things about pegleg that are NOT on this list. So at best I would call this a
    " partial " list.

    enjoy
    PLL

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  13. #28
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    While we are on this subject there is something I feel I must say. Some of the writers...should we say, didn't ALWAYS do a great amount of research. Oh they will tell you they did, but I would STRONGLY suggest to go after their materials as well. I will talk about one writer that this had happen to me. Mr Henry E W Wilson was supposed to be a TRUE peglegmaniac, but after finding " his " articles ( which were only at the Los Angeles Main Library ) and reading them, I found very little if nothing at all about pegleg that was not written somewhere else earlier. So be very cautious about believing everything you read..

    PLL

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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    Howdy, Friends!

    First of all, thanx to Jeff for moving Ole Pegleg "above the line." Now it's up to us to show him he did the right thing.

    I would like to point out that most of my original post was simply the information written by Horace J. West. I can not take or accept either responsibility or credit for it. The "further reading" is, of course, mine, but most of the information belongs to Mr. West. I'm just sharing it.

    Many, many thanks to Peg Leg Looker and Oroblanco - great posts!

    The way I read it, PLL, the desert town was Mojave. Now there are few things on God's Green Earth as transitory as a 19th Century mining camp. Many of those Western towns were moved more than once. The wooden buildings may have had a wood floor but often no foundation. And, of course, many of the "buildings" were tents with wood or even sod walls and a canvas roof. Additionally, many such settlements had the same name, or kept the name when they moved.

    Oroblanco - you guys beat me to it regarding the Desert Magazine map drawn by the great Norton Allen. The map predates the "Mr. Pegleg" letters by 15 or 20 years.

    Once more - thanks to all for your kind words, here and via PM, your great comments and your willingness to share years and years of research. This, to me, is the best such an Internet Forum can offer!

    And, frankly, it's a lot more fun than warning modern TH'ers about poseurs, frauds and assorted snakeoil salespeople and other vermin...

    Good luck to all,

    ~The Old Bookaroo
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  15. #30
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    Re: The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine

    hey gang,
    So where is the Mojave ?? This is from their site:

    What & Where is the Mojave Desert?
    Good question, glad you asked... Let me over explain.

    The Mojave or Mohave Desert occupies a significant portion of Southern California and parts of Utah, Nevada, and Arizona. Named after the Mohave Native Americans it occupies roughly 25,000 square miles in a typical Basin and Range topography.

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    It's HUGE!!!! and that would mean peglegs gold could be anywhere. Another thought, since it was a major landmark couldn't they have just mentioned it as " somehwere " in or near the Mojave ??

    PLL

 

 
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