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Thread: Peglegs Black Gold Nuggets

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  1. #16
    gr
    Jul 2006
    L-Rods & MineLab
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    It is amassing Gollum, it seems that you really know everything !!!
    Bravo !!
    Thanks for the info
    Digman.

  2. #17
    us
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Not really. I know a little bit about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, and the rest are just good research skills, and I have a pornographic memory!

    When it comes to Colonial Spanish in the New World (and by association, lost treasures of Eastern California), that's one thing that I became OBSESSED with some years ago. Every week ALL my time off was spent wandering the desert. taking pictures, climbing mountains, and trying to find places left in the past. If I wasn't able to get out to the desert, I was online, at the library, at bookstores, talking to people in metal detecting clubs, etc. getting information that I didn't have.

    God only knows exactly where Pegleg found his nuggets. He said it was within sight of a train station. What you can't see in the Google Earth Pic, is that train tracks run along the NorthEastern end of the Fish Creek Mountains. Was there a station in that area 125 years ago? I don't know, but the tracks are there. Trains still use them today (See below). Although, these tracks are used exclusively by a mine (not sure what type). They begin in the Fish Creeks, and end just South of the mountains, at an intersection of another major railhead. Below are the start and finish of the tracks.


    Mike
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  3. #18
    us
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    Jan 2006
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    ``
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    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

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  4. #19
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Greetings Gollum, Digman and everyone,

    Gollum wrote,
    Hey Oro, You are mistaken. I could walk you to within 2 miles of where Black Gold Nuggets were found inside my circle.
    <snip>

    Hmm, now that is quite a statement. I have no desire to irritate you, but this statement should be relatively easy for you to prove - simply go get a handful of those black nuggets and let me have a look at them in person. If you do not know exactly where they are to be found, then taking anyone within two miles of an unknown site proves nothing except that you are within two miles of a still unknown site, which may or may not be within two miles we don't know because we are still two miles away from it. It could as well be 500 or 6000 miles away. If you are impressed by this kind of statement Digman, you have me wondering!

    Gollum also wrote,
    God only knows exactly where Pegleg found his nuggets. He said it was within sight of a train station.
    <snip>

    Now again I do not have some bone to pick with you personally, but perhaps your sources are not the most accurate or your memory of what you have researched is imperfect - Smith found his gold at the latest the 1830s, most early sources say 1829, and there were NO train stations nor train tracks to be found anywhere in southern California deserts at that time. One thing I have learned is to always, always check your sources and the oldest are most often the most accurate. The train station you refer to may well be from the report of John Mitchell, who found black gold nuggets far to the north of the Salton sea, as he saw a train station in the distance which allowed him to find his way out. This only reinforces the point that we ought not to concentrate our search ONLY in the small area centered to the southwest of the Salton sea - if your source was indeed the fellow who spotted a train station, that was almost certainly Mitchell and his find was north of the Salton sea. Pegleg could not have seen a train station, unless he was psychic and able to see the future. Our human memories are quite imperfect and it is easy to confabulate the details of two similar but different incidents without doing it on purpose. For that matter, I could say that I can take you to within 2 miles of the Lost Dutchman mine, and be fairly certain that it is within that range, but what would that prove without showing you the actual mine?

    You are certainly welcome to concentrate your efforts in the area you depict on the map, and it is quite possible there could be black-crusted nuggets in that particular area. I have not trod across every square foot of that region (though my legs and feet may argue that point) but I did not find any kind of indication of black gold nuggets there. I will be happy to examine any black gold nuggets you can retrieve from the location you mentioned before, and return them by registered mail (insured) in which case I will be happy to retract my statements and agree that you have Pegleg's gold mine located for certain, to the SW of Salton Sea. Otherwise just saying that you can take me or anyone else to within two miles of a site that you don't know means pretty much nothing. If you DO collect those nuggets I will sure be happy to buy you a cold one of your choice, and you ought to concentrate all your efforts on developing that site as a mine - why waste time fooling around with anything else?

    Sign me now doubftul,
    Oroblanco

    "Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."
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  5. #20
    gr
    Jul 2006
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Hey Oroblanco,
    Sometimes information given missleads! I was too carried away by the initial post, where you write that :
    ''In the 1920's railroad man and treasure hunter John Mitchell happened to be in the same region when a meteorite was spotted. He got a mule and directions from the local witnesses to go and find the meteorite. While out in the desert, he got lost. In the same way as Pegleg had done, Mitchell climbed a flat topped hill and found that he could see a railroad junction in the distance, and that the ground on top of the hill was littered with black pebbles''.

    That's the reason I requested co ordinates, in order to use them on google earth.
    If Mitchell saw the railroad junction from the hill top, then the hill is at view from the junction.
    If the statement is true, then this a good clue, although on many articles, missleading information is given on purpose.
    For sure there must be more than one hill with pebbles out there, but this needs, as Gollum correctly points out, detailed investigation.
    Digman.

  6. #21
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Hey Oro,

    You're right about the train station. It was Mitchell (sorry).

    The reason I know about the general location of where Black Gold Nuggets were found is because I know somebody who transported a person to an area near Ocotillo Wells (along the 78). This was in the 60's. Wouldn't let him (my guy) get out of the truck. It wasn't on a hill, it was in a deep ravine/wash. The guy was gone about 45 minutes, and came back with several nuggets (no metal detector). I just know the approximate location of where the truck was parked. The location was backed up in a book by George Mroczkowski. Same general location, and in a dry wash. I don't think anybody could have wandered further than 2 miles (and back) in around 45 minutes. I've been out there several times. There are so many dry washes, ravines, and the like, it's tough to get the same spot. Also, guessing what ravines have been there for almost 50 years, and which ones washed out later, and which ones the winds have filled up with sand, is a little daunting.

    PegLeg found nuggets in an area of three flat topped mountains/buttes. This could be almost anywhere, but it does describe the area SouthWest of the Salton Sea, in the area I circled. When you put all the little clues together, from different finders over the years: Three flat topped mountains, Train Station, Other Black Coated Rocks, Area of Ocotillo Wells


    Best,

    Mike
    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  7. #22
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    hi I am having fun watching two gentlemen actually using their brains for research. You both have valid reasons and theories, I have a third after revising the data that you have presented, however I will leave Peggers Gold for you two to sort out between yourselves.

    One word of caution , do not rely too heavily upon any reported data, in most cases it has passed between two or more people before being made public, need I say more?.

    Someone like John Mitchell would certainly not publish the correct or precise data if he ever intended to possibly go back again, would you? I have Mitchells' Rose's, and Byrds stories on Tayopa, all are full of serious discrepancies. If I had attempted to find Tayopa with the data in their stories, it would still be lost.

    Also, I am curious about being lost ?? I know that the first thing that either of you would do, is to thoroughly orient yourselves using any known maps or other information before even entering the area. There is no logical reason for being basically lost to the point that you would need a RR station to find your way back, and conversely where you have been. There were excellent maps available to Mitchell.

    Yes, Gold covered with a copper layer would oxidize black, and if it had a coating of a water soluble iron mineral it would turn black also. So both of you are correct in this respect..

    Go gentlemen go, I am fascinated.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  8. #23
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    I just simply believe that are probably black gold nuggets in several places. I haven't seen them, but I trust that Desert magazine had received some samples from the man who wrote the story. His story was also that he would not go back. He even gave the general location of where he found them. How much was true? Who knows, but when you add that with all the other stories (Pegleg's three flat mountaintops, RR Station, My source, George Mroczkowski's Book, and the Desert Magazine Story), this adds up to the general area SouthWest of The Salton Sea. Most people believe somewhere in the vicinity of the Fish Creek Mountains. My guy says North of them. I think the nuggets in the ravines were washed down from the mountains. If I can find ONE ravine with ONE nugget, I would know where to go from there! Can anyone say "Needle in a haystack?"

    Mike
    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  9. #24
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Greetings friends Real de Tayopa and Gollum,
    I agree with both of you - first in that virtually all records of lost mines and buried treasures have some fatal flaw in the descriptions of where they are, if they did not have the flaw these mines would not be lost. The trick is in finding what that error was, and if it was deliberate the task is that much more difficult.

    I am also convinced that there are at minimum three different sites with black-crusted gold nuggets, and all located generally around the Salton sea. If a person had enough time and was diligent and methodical, I am certain you will find at least one of these sites - and there could be as many as seven. My biggest point was not to limit your search only to one portion of that area, though there very well could be more locations in that SW corner as well. Perhaps it IS wrong NOT to limit your search area, for at least you can then do a more thorough search of that limited area and be relatively certain whether it is there or not. I have spent more weeks trekking around that basin than I care to admit, without finding Pegleg's gold, and now rather wish that I had at least gone over any one mountain range so thoroughly that I could rule it out. I can't! I can cross off a number of areas, but these are scattered all over the map with huge areas still un-searched.

    I would add here that it is surprisingly easy to get lost in that region too. I did not personally, as I learned early in my adventures to be sure of where I was going, but my partner one morning told me he was going up into a particular canyon in the Chuckwallas, as he had a "hunch" that might be the area (there was a flat topped hill near the crest, one of dozens in the area) and he had seen quite a lot of black sands at the mouth of that canyon. He knew the same topo maps I had studied and (I thought) always carried a compass, told me he would be back by dinner time and headed off. I had several small hills off to the east I wanted to check with the metal detector, and left camp too. When I got back, my partner ought to have been there first but I didn't worry until it was getting dark. To make a long story short I did manage to find him, lost in a maze of small canyons that were so complex it was hard to find our way back even with a map and compass! He admitted that he was sure glad that he got found, as he was about to give up and try to find a place to sleep for the night, having already drank ALL his water and no, he had forgotten to bring along his compass. He said when he got to the top of the flat topped hill, sure enough it was covered with the black stones but not a one even gave a false signal for the detector so he looked down the canyons and thought he could see which one to take to get back to camp, and proceeded to get thoroughly lost. I found him several miles from where he was supposed to be, and headed to the west away from camp - he would eventually have come out to a road but only if he could keep on a straight line, which is questionable. I will add here that this partner only one other time got lost, having managed to track his way through thick bush in the north country un-erringly but his first couple of trips to the desert seemed to throw his sense of direction. Anyway always take precautions NOT to get lost, anyone reading this for advice, and be sure to let someone know where you are heading and when to expect you to be back.

    Oroblanco

    "Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know." --Groucho Marx

    "I've got the brain of a four year old. I'll bet he was glad to be rid of it." --Groucho Marx
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  10. #25
    us
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    I totally agree about the whole getting lost thing. In Mroczkowski's Book, one time he and a couple of guys were looking for the 10 oxcarts of treasure near Ocotillo Wells (mid sixties). They didn't know it, but at the very same time. less than 2 or three miles away, a guy was dying of exposure and dehydration. He went into the same area, looking for the same treasure. He had one small bottle of water (one quart). They found his body the following week.

    Moral of the story: Be Prepared (Boy Scout Motto)!

    mike
    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  11. #26
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    HI Gentlemen, my point was that both of you have been in that country many times, and other than a bit of temp. loss of local orientation, you are still here and so did/do know where you were effectively.

    This is because by using both your intelligence and pre-study orientation, you knew where you were within a few hrs of travel at any time. Out side of some discomfort, you were in no great danger. The others were like ants, moving around without constantly rechecking.

    The mere fact that you are in a relatively mountainous region gives you so many land marks to point on that unless you have an accident you are in no great danger of being wholly lost. You actually have whole mountain ranges to aid you.

    I agree that in some of the deep winding washes/arroyos, you can become temporarily disorientated, but by simply climbing up high enough to see some of the surrounding skyline you quickly get yourself back on track.

    However, for a completely unprepared city guy, it could be easily fatal. This is why anyone following your leads should also listen very very carefully to what you say about traveling in that country looking for lost mines etc.

    Sorry to interrupt, keep going my friends.

    Tropical Tramp

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  12. #27
    us
    Just an old man enjoying life...

    Jun 2006
    Banning, California
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    WOW.... you guys are GREAT!!!!! so many clues and so many different ways to look at this legend. I have been researching this for 2 yrs and take alot of things in consideration. like the story of Charlie Brooks who was a freighter in the late 1800's and early 1900's who said he used to run cattle from Mexico to Beaumont... why? because that is where the RR stopped. there was RR in Yuma as well but nothing in between. The story of the Indian squaw was later when the union pacific was laying track to connect the two. afterwards the cattle runs stopped in Yuma because of the RR. In desert magazine there is a story of Brooks' granddaughter or daughter i can't remember trying to look for the gold where he said it would be... but she never found it...I find that if you read only the treasure stories one really misses out. but if you take these stories and try to prove them with "fact" via the historical society it sends you in another direction that has more fact then fiction... mind you i am not saying which one is correct but which one you can prove...for example a story in a san franciso newspaper dated 1866 tells of pegleg and his partner mr marshall ( i think it was marsahll) getting lost after a sand storm and it was marshall that climed the hill and found the gold not pegleg... Fact good question... but why would a guy with a pegleg climb a hill to look around when someone with 2 good legs could this article came out just after pegleg died and i'm sure the reporter interviewed pegleg's friend who was with him in at the end... story goes that his friend would bring whiskey to the hospital for pegleg...Fact don't know...but how would a reporter get this info and from who?? the earliest story say that pegleg was headed to warner's ranch and got lost... others say he went to san bernardino... there are reports of pegleg cashing gold in san bernardino and reports of him having gold at warner's... Fact or fiction who knows for sure...if one can PROVE any of this i would love to hear from you.. I would be willing to share what i have found with anyone who has info i don't... if there is gold there, even a small share how cool would it be to be known as the one who found it.... that NOONE can ever take from you.....looking forward to your feedback thankx..............

  13. #28
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Hey PLL,

    Great additions to the story.

    I have heard stories that Pegleg's gold actually came out of The Amboy Crater, but I know one thing for certain; black gold nuggets have been found in the vicinity of Ocotillo Wells, Ca. I have a witness statement, and pics (from an old book). Like I said before, I can get to within a couple of miles the location. But out there, a couple of miles might as well be a hundred miles! If I could find the wash where they are, I could trace that to the place in the mountains they came from. That's the only piece missing from the puzzle (a key piece though).

    Best,

    Mike
    My Motto: "KEEP AT IT!"

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

    Check out 1ORO1.COM

  14. #29
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    =gollum ]

    That in mind, I believe that any gold placer nuggets that sit in the desert sun, untouched for hundreds of years, will turn black, and hence there could be black gold nuggets in many locations.
    Mike
    *************

    HI, some of the Oriental religeous shrine domes have a thin sheathing of Gold, which has not changd in a thousand years or so. Gold is known for it's resistance to chemical attack, including solar activity, however, when combined with a coating of Ferrrous or cupperous materiels, they in turn will react to dark brown or black.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  15. #30
    us
    Dec 2005
    Eugene, Oregon
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    Re: Pegleg's Black Gold Nuggets

    Almost threw this one out, until I saw a glint on one corner where it was struck by another rock. I have since hit it with nitric, heated it until red- with little results. The corners you see showing now are from rubbing during tumbling.

    Was black when I started, looks more brown now. More resembles an iron encrustation than rock, and its quartz-free.
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