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Thread: The Great Cavern of the Shawnee

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  1. #1
    us
    Swiz

    Aug 2007
    Kentucky
    Whites XLT (E- Series)
    124
    4 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    The Great Cavern of the Shawnee

    Hello all ye Swift-hunters,
    Last edited by Swifty; Jul 26, 2015 at 10:27 PM.

  2. #2
    us
    Swiz

    Aug 2007
    Kentucky
    Whites XLT (E- Series)
    124
    4 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I believe the GCS would be about 5-6 or so miles from Swifts furnace, somewhere along his exit route from the mines, furnace area. Swift says, they carried their heavy ore 3 miles or so North to smelt, at the furnace. After completing the smelt process, "if ", they were going to make a deposit the next day in the (GCS), they would want to get an early start. They would want to make it to the cave promptly that day.
    Leaving the furnace area early in the morning, with their mules, etc., loaded down with smelted coinage, bars, etc. They would probably depart at first light. I figure that one mile per hour could be accomplished by the mules, etc., through the mountain terrain. Five, six or so miles would be considerable work for the animals with that kind of weight! Another thing to consider is that they would not want to transport this wealth to far and take any chances of being observed/tracked or attacked. So ideally the cave would not be to far from the mines, furnace area, but just far enough away for secrecy. They would want to keep the secrecy of the caves' location from the other men who worked the mines.
    They would probably arrive at the cave before noon getting settled in and concealed at their campsite,(Bear Gulch.). Ideally they would want a spot somewhat concealed and pretty close to the cave. So they could easily/efficiently convey their heavy load of silver and gold buollion, etc., into the GCS, very nearby.
    After arriving at the cave area, they would post a lookout/scout up high (LOOKOUT ROCK), to scan the surrounding area. And "ideally", two Shawnee Indian scouts to recon the area around them for awhile. This would leave, three, four, or five men with the animals and the precious load of silver and gold, etc.. They would want to make sure they were not being observed..
    "Swift says", that no other living soul knew the location of the GCS, except his immediate party and four Shawnee Indians. So possibly, seven to eight or so people knew the location of the GCS. (Probably. Swift, Monday, Jefferson, Renault, Montgomery maybe Blackburn and of course the Indians). They would most definitely be prepared before they would open the cave to make their deposit. They would want to make sure they were alone and secure from being observed.
    After making a deposit and concealing the cave entrance to "look natural" and covering their tracks. They would have stayed in the area for a day or so doing recon and observing from Lookout Rock and other points, to make sure their deposit was made in secret....

    I personally believe that the "Kelly Dunn Map depicts the area of Lookout Rock, Bear Gulch, (Campsite) and the GCS up in the mountain, 90 poles from creek past Bear Gulch. Map also says, " East" to mines and seven or eight miles to "SOMEWHERE)?. So deductively, North to furnace from mines, and from cave "East" to mines, would deductively put the cave, south and west of the mines!!! This would make sense, when they were leaving/going out, possibly, via, the Big Gap (Cumberland), to Tennessee or North Caroliona, from Southeastern, Ky.
    There are several other carvings and petraglyphs that depict the area of the GCS as well. Legend has it that the cave went through the mountain, so there may be another entrance? Other caches are probably buried in the area as well. ("REN buried his SHARE")
    Another thing I always thought about that was interesting in Swift's journal, was... Swift's statement about "Lick Creek", "Swift says", "We sometimes went back this way"... (I personally believe they went back this way, via, "LICK Creek" to the GCS", to make their deposits, withdrawals, etc. that's why Swift mentions "Lick Creek!!!)

    SWIFTY -aka- THE SWIZ 1717t
    Last edited by Swifty; Jul 23, 2015 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Complete my thoughts on the subject
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  3. #3
    us
    Retired/Disabled

    Nov 2013
    Maysville, Kentucky
    Red Baron by Bounty Hunter
    22
    9 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    It's not. In fact, a journal that I came across states that the workmen hired to mine the silver and operate the furnace had no knowledge of the Great Cave of the Shawnee. If you put yourself in the shoes of the men who were working the mines and the furnace they would have not have had any reason to go very far from the security the mines offered, except maybe to hunt game. If I can get myself back to walking I'm going back to the location where I found the ore sample I posted not long ago and take another sample from the central part of the fissure, and it doesn't hurt that Swift's name is carved in a rock shelter not far from where I'm looking, and an X is carved into the face of the fissure ore. For some reason he liked to turn the initials of his name upside down and backwards when he carved them.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  4. #4
    us
    Having the time of my life!

    Sep 2008
    Cincinnati
    584
    30 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I am thinking he would only allow a trusted person to know where they were storing the goods. The workmen wouldn't count, just hired labor....the original group might not have known either - finding the cave may have been something that came later on after most of them had quit going.

    Hey Howerton, what journal did you find this in? If you don't mind sharing, a lot of us like to read everything we can get our hands on....even some of the ridiculous stuff might be of help. Everything matters when you have boots on the ground.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Death I will fear no evil for thou art with me.

  5. #5
    us
    Retired/Disabled

    Nov 2013
    Maysville, Kentucky
    Red Baron by Bounty Hunter
    22
    9 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I'll look through my saved sites and see if I can locate it...then I'll post the link. Swift had a much larger operation going on than anyone could have ever imagined. He talks about "friendly Indians" which if I bet a dime to a dollar he was using as his security. Years ago, two old fellows that helped me start my search told me of a locale folk tale where in the early 1800s a small tribe of Indians came into the area where I am looking and camped for a whole summer on a ridge. If you are from certain parts of Kentucky, you know that the people there either live on top of the ridges or they live in the deep valleys that are under the cliffs. Anyway, none of the settlers in the area paid much attention to them except that they were going down under the cliffs during the day and digging deep pits, looking for something. The people in that area of our state at that time were more concerned with getting in their crops and surviving than keeping up with what the Indians were doing and wrote it off as Indians doing Indian stuff. In the early 2000s I found where the Indians had been digging and on one very steep hillside under the cliff line I found the pits that they were digging in. Over time they have filled up, but I would have to say they were probably 10 to 15 feet deep. There are probably around 30 of these pits and they are very random, as if looking for a needle in a haystack. The story continues that the locals got up one morning and found that the Indians had almost left as if overnight. They were gone without a trace. Close to where they were looking, as the crow flies, is where I found the location where Swift had built his furnace. There is no sign of the furnace left there except that there is a deep trench leading into the creek, a place where the water could have been dammed up for a water wheel, and I found what appeared to be cut stones in the creek. The land owner told me that when he was a boy people were finding odd rocks in the creek, slag, and said that he had been told the creek had been salted. The furnace was a "short stack colonial furnace." You can go onto Yahoo and do an image results search and you can see what one looked like. When a furnace went into blast it was usually done in the early spring and stayed in blast until late fall, which explains why Swift showed up at the site and left from there as he did. I also found where he quarried the sandstone to build his furnace and where he quarried limestone for use in the furnace during the time it was in blast. I tried to get another contract with the land owner to go back into the area and search again, but the land is now in the hands of several different family members and they won't let anyone look anymore. I was able to get a contract with the other land owner where I found the hard rock gold and silver vein last year, verified by assay. They mined the ore during the winter months and put the furnace into blast during the summer months, carrying out the mined coins and bars, or hiding them in the great cave when they left out in the late fall. I lived in that part of the country almost my whole young adult life, and I know what the ore looks like now. The people in this part of Kentucky have been walking over a fortune their whole lives because they didn't know what they were looking at in the rocks. The problem is, if I show a photo of the ore, it will cause a rush, and I don't think I'm going to tell. The land owner might if he decides to have it mined, but I won't. It sits too close to one of the most beautiful places in Kentucky that is protected by the Federal Government, and it would be destroyed by mining operations. I'm looking for the treasure, and that I found a fissure vein is pretty cool, it not worth reveling because of the damage it will cause to the area.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  6. #6
    us
    Swiz

    Aug 2007
    Kentucky
    Whites XLT (E- Series)
    124
    4 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Swifty View Post
    I believe the GCS would be about 5-6 or so miles from Swifts furnace, somewhere along his exit route from the mines, furnace area. Swift says, they carried their heavy ore 3 miles or so North to smelt, at the furnace. After completing the smelt process, "if ", they were going to make a deposit the next day in the (GCS), they would want to get an early start. They would want to make it to the cave promptly that day.
    Leaving the furnace area early in the morning, with their mules, etc., loaded down with smelted coinage, bars, etc. They would probably depart at first light. I figure that one mile per hour could be accomplished by the mules, etc., through the mountain terrain. Five, six or so miles would be considerable work for the animals with that kind of weight! Another thing to consider is that they would not want to transport this wealth to far and take any chances of being observed/tracked or attacked. So ideally the cave would not be to far from the mines, furnace area, but just far enough away for secrecy. They would want to keep the secrecy of the caves' location from the other men who worked the mines.
    They would probably arrive at the cave before noon getting settled in and concealed at their campsite,(Bear Gulch.). Ideally they would want a spot somewhat concealed and pretty close to the cave. So they could easily/efficiently convey their heavy load of silver and gold buollion, etc., into the GCS, very nearby.
    After arriving at the cave area, they would post a lookout/scout up high (LOOKOUT ROCK), to scan the surrounding area. And "ideally", two Shawnee Indian scouts to recon the area around them for awhile. This would leave, three, four, or five men with the animals and the precious load of silver and gold, etc.. They would want to make sure they were not being observed..
    "Swift says", that no other living soul knew the location of the GCS, except his immediate party and four Shawnee Indians. So possibly, seven to eight or so people knew the location of the GCS. (Probably. Swift, Monday, Jefferson, Renault, Montgomery maybe Blackburn and of course the Indians). They would most definitely be prepared before they would open the cave to make their deposit. They would want to make sure they were alone and secure from being observed.
    After making a deposit and concealing the cave entrance to "look natural" and covering their tracks. They would have stayed in the area for a day or so doing recon and observing from Lookout Rock and other points, to make sure their deposit was made in secret....

    I personally believe that the "Kelly Dunn Map depicts the area of Lookout Rock, Bear Gulch, (Campsite) and the GCS up in the mountain, 90 poles from creek past Bear Gulch. Map also says, " East" to mines and seven or eight miles to "SOMEWHERE)?. So deductively, North to furnace from mines, and from cave "East" to mines, would deductively put the cave, south and west of the furnace and west of the mines!!! This would make sense, when they were leaving/going out, possibly, via, the Big Gap (Cumberland), to Tennessee or North Caroliona, from Southeastern, Ky.
    There are several other carvings and petraglyphs that depict the area of the GCS as well. Legend has it that the cave went through the mountain, so there may be another entrance? Other caches are probably buried in the area as well. ("REN buried his SHARE")
    Another thing I always thought about that was interesting in Swift's journal, was... Swift's statement about "Lick Creek", "Swift says", "We sometimes went back this way"... (I personally believe they went back this way, via, "LICK Creek" to the GCS", to make their deposits, withdrawals, etc. that's why Swift mentions "Lick Creek!!!...the salt spring is another hint!!!)

    SWIFTY -aka- THE SWIZ 1717t
    "Just Completing my thoughts on the Furnace, Cave, and Mine areas of the Swift Legend"
    Last edited by Swifty; Jul 23, 2015 at 02:58 AM.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.

  7. #7
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    12,424
    4977 times
    Swifty, heavily loaded Animals leave distintive tracks, not easily conceable.
    Rebel - KGC likes this.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

 

 

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