Presentation about Swift given in Prestonburg

[KY Hiker]

One thing I never understood is it seems that once they buried it why they never mention digging it up? All the people besides Swift that went to me mines, we’re to believe that nobody remembered the way? They needed Swift to guide them? If I had to guess, someone went back and got it. Or someone found it, and being afraid of what would happen, kept their mouth shut about it. Think like a pirate.. the more that know, the more that share..

I remember reading in one version of the journal that on a return trip they checked a stash they had to bury on a previous trip and found all things as they had left them.

 

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[KY Hiker]

The best approach to finding the truths of the legend or at least what was originally written as the journal is to compare all the versions and find what is common among them. The being struck blind because of murder or being imprisoned in England is probably color to the story to give excuse for not re-finding the mines. Chances are, the man was getting old and became nearsighted and could not spot landmarks that he used to be able to see.

 

[franklin]

I don't recall ever reading about pirates having partners...only crews. Two of Swift's partners had 600k pieces of eight? Can you sight a reference for that? I have never heard of such a thing...or a sabre fight. If you know where Swift's partners lived please let us know how you came to find this out? I'm always looking for more background reading if you could site your sources.

That was in the Jonathan Swift Journal by Michael Paul Henson. I believe his copy came from a woman at Bean's Station that Swift had left a copy with supposedly. But anyway they were called associates so I called them partners. Their names were Flint and Fletcher. I found where Fletcher lived in a valley and Flint lived up on a high ridge above him. On the opposite side of the valley was a creek named for Blackburn and up on the top of that mountain is where Jeffries lived. Nathaniel Guest at that time lived in Walnut Cove, N.C. then he removed to New London, Virginia, the County Seat of Bedford County.

I went to the Salisbury, North Carolina Courthouse with my now deceased brother to search for documents to verify their names and properties they owned. I found Fletcher's and Blackburn's deed but all the others were missing. It seems the whole Deed Book had been stolen from the Courthouse. I asked one of the clerks that worked there and they confirmed that it had been stolen. I asked her was there a copy or any microfilm and she replied, "No, but there may be a copy in Ansen County which was where records were keep earlier. I have not made a journey to Ansen County Courthouse and may never will but it would be interesting. All of the other members of JS's party lived up and down the Yadkin River as did Daniel Boone at one time and Squire Boone his father.

 

[KY Hiker]

Was there a deed for Swift in that county? If so,that would rule out the Swift from Alexandria, unless of course he had moved! Interesting they all came from the same region of NC. Almost make me think the versions of the story that they came thru Pound gap vs Cumberland gap are false. Pound route would be way out of the way if they were coming and going to the Yatkin Rvr.

 

[KY Hiker]

Much of this I posted in parts on other threads. Since reading Mr. Prather's book on Swift and digesting much of the research I have decided to drop this post into this thread since much of it is pulled from the information he provided. It is a timeline of sorts with many of the critical bits of information we have related to Swift other than the land entry dates in KY given in Prather's book. Please add and discuss anything I missed or got wrong as far as dates and facts. Ponder this...

Has anyone ever given any thought to the times mentioned surrounding the legend. This never seems to add up to me...
First, most journals say his last trip to the mines was 1769.
Secondly, Swift is said to return (blind and/or from imprisonment or having to serve on a British ship) 15 years later to relocated the mine(s).
15+1769=1784 ... BUT I always read the date of 1791 as when he returns to look for the mines or when he is helped when lost in the Red River Gorge.
Typically he is said to have died around 1800 in various places. So my question is, where was Swift from 1784 thru 1791, THAT is 7-8 years of nothing....
I find it odd to say the least, was he (as an old man) searching that whole time. I find that unlikely...
What is interesting to me is that 7-8 year window would be the EXACT time the Swift of Prather's research would have been in his 20s and could have 'worked' the mines!
He was also buying and selling property in KY during this period.

Legendary Jonathan Swift mined silver in KY 1760-1769

Jonathan Swift was born March 27or22 1764 to Samuel and Ann Foster Swift of Milton, Massachusetts and was the 7th of 9 children.

His father, Samuel Swift (1715-1775) participated in the Boston Tea Party by dressing as a Mohawk Indian and may have been a practicing law partner with John Adams. He went to Harvard College, studied law and graduated 1735. He died while being imprisoned in his own house by the British.

The War of Independence 1775 - 1783

Gen. Daniel Roberdeau (Swift's father in law) born 1727 in the British West Indies. He lived in Philidelphia as a merchant and had a 1/8 share in a company and was acting treasurer in two privateering vessels in 1776 called Chance and Congress. In 1777 he served in the Continental Congress and served two terms. In 1778 he was granted a leave of absence from congress to allow him to manage the workings of a lead mine for the army. He erected a fort, Ft. Roberdeau near Altoona, Pennsylvania an area called Sinking Spring Valley in Bedford County, to protect the mine operation with about 10 continental soldiers and 40 militia. Letters he had written about the lead mine are quoted starting on page 74 of the book. Odd, but there is a reference to 'Standing Stone', a 'Morrison's Cave' and accounts of fighting Indians in these letters. Looks like he financed the building of the fort himself and was never repaid by congress for it. After the war he did not return to his previous business of merchant/privateer. It is unknown how he continued to earn an income after leaving for Alexandria.

Jonathan Swift, a merchant married Nancy (or Ann) Roberdeau the elder daughter of Gen. Roberdeau of Alexandria Sept, 24 1785. Swift was an importer and merchant by trade.

J. Filson and R. Breckenridge land entry May 17, 1788 '...worked by one Swift...'

John Filson 1747 — Oct 1, 1788

Legendary Jonathan Swift is said to be looking for his lost mines in 1791. One report states he and his partners were found in the Red River Gorge lost, and he was very ill at the time and blind.

Did Swifts party camp along Swift Camp Creek at this time? Is this why and when Campton later got its name?

James Harrod 1746 — 1792 (His body was never found after going to the forks of the KY river to look at Swift's silver mine with another man who invited him)

So, Filson made a land entry in May of 1788 and by October he is dead in Ohio. (Some say he just disappeared because his body was never found)
Col. James Harrod dies the year after Legendary Swift has returned to KY to find his mine(s) in 1791.

Could it be that stories of Swift's father in law and the lead mine were the original source or basis of the legend. Roberdeau was in company as a privateer, later member of the continental congress, and was in charge of a lead mine during the revolution. After the war, he moved his family to Alexandria. He did not continue in his previous business as merchant but his new son-in-law is in that business. Was he a silent partner with Swift?

What if the dates were changed to protect the mining rights, as Eastern KY was beginning to be more populated? Changed in that, they arrived at the mine and worked it in, lets say, 1788. But they make a carving at the mine making a claim and date it 1762.
What did Roberdeau know about mining lead?
Prather's Swift was the son in law of a Rev. war general who secured a lead mining operation on the Penn. frontier (west of the mountains) for the continental army, he also was involved in a privateer company prior to that for the colonies. This same Swift married this man's daughter in 1785. He also was involved in a importing and merchant business. Both were active in their lodges as masons as was Gen. Washington. This Jonathon Swift was also a friend of Washington.
Six years later the Swift of the Legend shows up looking for his mine with his journal in hand.
I do not believe in coincidences. Two different Jonathan Swifts in KY 20-25 years apart is more than not probable! It isn't impossible... but extremely unlikely especially considering the sparse population of the frontier at that time.

 

[Ken S.]

There's a hundred ways this could be twisted to fit the legends with a good imagination. Suppose the Swift mines are actually in present day Pa. OR The father in law was using young Swifts name while mining in Ky. OR The Ft. was built as a cover for them while they were ACTUALLY gone to Ky. to mine. This is just a few of the twists it could take. The TRUTH may never be known.

 

[KY Hiker]

So instead of dismissing it, we should go through a logical process of each of the possible 'motives'. This won't be easy, it is the reason there is no hole in the ground in E. KY with a sign and parking lot saying ---> This way to Swift's Silver mine --->.

The lead mine in PA. existed, Prather refers to the Continental Congress allowing its creation and protection for the cause of the war.
Swift and his father-in-law both existed, that is documented in multiple places.
Until we can find another documented Jonathon Swift from Alexandria in the 1750-60s to match the dates of the journals, and show that he traveled to KY multiple times in the 1760s we have to deduce the Jonathon Swift that Mr. Prather found research on IS the Swift of the legend.

I'll throw out a few possibilities and NONE of these have any basis in facts. Purely hypothetical...

What if, Gen. Roberdeau while processing the lead for the war separated the impurities including the silver. They would all have a much higher melting point than the lead after all. Suppose, since he was never reimbursed for the monies he had contributed to the fort being built, he decided to 'keep' these slags. Maybe he did not return to his previous employment because he has a little somtin' somtin' tucked away after the war. Maybe he told his new son-in-law about it. Maybe Swift heard about deposits of metal in the new frontier. He was buying land in KY in large tracts...

Or maybe, Roberdeau (as an older man) came to the frontier in 1791 claiming to be Swift (his son-in-law) while Swift was buying land. Roberdeau was handing out journals because he was on a fishing hunt for mineral deposits. What better way to search on a large scale than to pass out journals claiming silver to be in the mountains...

Maybe it was someone who worked under Roberdeau in PA. who sparked the legend. After the war this person came to KY talking all about what he did during the war. Maybe he drank too much and talked about how silver can be found in lead deposits, maybe he even lied about silver being in KY. just like in PA.

While any number of things could be the truth behind the legend and everyone has their own ideas, please share yours.

 

[franklin]

There is a book on marriages in Fairfax County, Virginia. There is another Jonathan Swift that married a Desiree Ann Swift. I saw it two times while researching on the Beale Treasure and the Confederate Treasure but I never made a copy. It is out there.

 

[KY Hiker]

A record book of marriages, any idea of the dates? Sure would help to know...I have not been to VA in about 10 years! Beale and confederate treasure would be much later than the 18th century?

civil war was 1860-65

http://bealetreasurestory.com/

In case anyone is wondering, here is the list of the members of the continental congress, Daniel Roberdeau is number 263.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_delegates_to_the_Continental_Congress
Daniel Roberdeau links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Roberdeau
https://allthingsliberty.com/2018/0...-roberdeaus-quest-lead-pennsylvania-frontier/
Ft. Roberdeau links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Roberdeau
https://fortroberdeau.org/home/
http://fortroberdeau.org/dispatch/

I found another John Swift ... http://www.revwartalk.com/john-swift/

 

[franklin]

A record book of marriages, any idea of the dates? Sure would help to know...I have not been to VA in about 10 years! Beale and confederate treasure would be much later than the 18th century?

civil war was 1860-65

Beale Treasure Story: BealeTreasureStory

In case anyone is wondering, here is the list of the members of the continental congress, Daniel Roberdeau is number 263.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_delegates_to_the_Continental_Congress
Daniel Roberdeau links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Roberdeau
https://allthingsliberty.com/2018/0...-roberdeaus-quest-lead-pennsylvania-frontier/
Ft. Roberdeau links
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Roberdeau
https://fortroberdeau.org/home/
Fort Roberdeau | The Dispatch

I found another John Swift ... American Revolution John Swift - RevWarTalk

Your John Swift===Too Young. When you research treasures you can run up on all kinds of information. If not copied at the opportune time, you may never find it again. I remember the library where I found it was in Danville Virginia Public Library in their Research Room upstairs. I went back looking found it again but their copy machines were down that day. It was before computers were available so no way to scan and copy. Sorry.

 

[KY Hiker]

Not my John Swift, Prather did the research! The one linked above was from further northeast and died in combat.

So you do not find it odd that Prather's Swift was from Alexandria and bought large tracts of land in KY, and his father-in-law was in charge of a lead mine and was financing a privateer company?
If it walks like a rat, smells like a rat and looks like a rat... its probably a rat. Until someone can show us a mouse, all we have is a rat to go with.

 

[franklin]

Not my John Swift, Prather did the research! The one linked above was from further northeast and died in combat.

So you do not find it odd that Prather's Swift was from Alexandria and bought large tracts of land in KY, and his father-in-law was in charge of a lead mine and was financing a privateer company?
If it walks like a rat, smells like a rat and looks like a rat... its probably a rat. Until someone can show us a mouse, all we have is a rat to go with.

I believe Prather's Swift was real. But I do not think he had anything to do with the Legend of Swift's Silver mines. I think all that was made up to get settlers west of the Allegheny Mountains. When settlers got killed then expansion set in by sending in the military or militia in this case and take the Indians Land. Filson most likely was the originator of the concocted story.

 

[Ken S.]

I figure Prathers research is spot on . Reason I say this, is because I know of a JS carving near Paintsville that I figure was a corner/boundry marker of the 10000 acres that swift bought from George James. With the map Prather shows and knowing where the JS carving is/was and a couple of other things I saw on the map, I have a good general Idea where the 10000 acre property Swift bought is. I figure Prather didn't have an idea where the JS carving is/was or he would have been much more excited, and probably made mention of it in his presentation .

 

[KY Hiker]

I believe Prather's Swift was real. But I do not think he had anything to do with the Legend of Swift's Silver mines. I think all that was made up to get settlers west of the Allegheny Mountains. When settlers got killed then expansion set in by sending in the military or militia in this case and take the Indians Land. Filson most likely was the originator of the concocted story.

There have been a number of different angles people have proposed about Filson and Swift's Journal. Other than both of them (Prather's Swift) being land speculators there is very little else to go on. What year was it that the value of Western lands collapsed? 1788 ?!?? I'll have to look it up... there...may be a motive for your theory!

Although, what of the opening KI has found? I would say if he has found silver coin, an opening and carvings related to Swift and the journal, that would poo poo your belief?

 

[KY Hiker]

I figure Prathers research is spot on . Reason I say this, is because I know of a JS carving near Paintsville that I figure was a corner/boundry marker of the 10000 acres that swift bought from George James. With the map Prather shows and knowing where the JS carving is/was and a couple of other things I saw on the map, I have a good general Idea where the 10000 acre property Swift bought is. I figure Prather didn't have an idea where the JS carving is/was or he would have been much more excited, and probably made mention of it in his presentation .

The actual document of the survey is more evidence than any initials carved on rock, that could have been done at any time by anybody. If it was a carving of 'Jonathan Swift 17__' this would give it more credence but the survey still carries more weight. What the 'JS' does is support the survey and may have been a corner marker of that survey. If the 'JS' is actually on the corner of the survey, that would make it a more legit carving than most!

10,000 acres is 15+ square miles (roughly 3x5 miles)

 

[Ken S.]

The actual document of the survey is more evidence than any initials carved on rock, that could have been done at any time by anybody. If it was a carving of 'Jonathan Swift 17__' this would give it more credence but the survey still carries more weight. What the 'JS' does is support the survey and may have been a corner marker of that survey. If the 'JS' is actually on the corner of the survey, that would make it a more legit carving than most!

With other evidence on the Survey/map he showed in the video, the JS carving lines up to be a corner marker. They support each other, Both are evidence.

 

[KY Hiker]

I thought you had said it was obliterated when they were working on the Mt. Pkwy?

 

[KY Hiker]

Your John Swift===Too Young. When you research treasures you can run up on all kinds of information. If not copied at the opportune time, you may never find it again. I remember the library where I found it was in Danville Virginia Public Library in their Research Room upstairs. I went back looking found it again but their copy machines were down that day. It was before computers were available so no way to scan and copy. Sorry.

Again...
Until we can find another documented Jonathon Swift from Alexandria in the 1750-60s to match the dates of the journals, and show that he traveled to KY multiple times in the 1760s we have to deduce the Jonathon Swift that Mr. Prather found research on IS the Swift of the legend.

I have found several other John/Jonathon Swifts but almost all are on lists of British soldier rosters or listed as captured British soldiers. Must have been a common name given in England after the author of Gulliver's Travels.

 

[Ken S.]

I thought you had said it was obliterated when they were working on the Mt. Pkwy?

Not the Pkwy. and it may still be there, haven't been back to check in long time . It wouldn't change the fact it was there, if it had been obliterated.

 

[Ken S.]

Again...
Until we can find another documented Jonathon Swift from Alexandria in the 1750-60s to match the dates of the journals, and show that he traveled to KY multiple times in the 1760s we have to deduce the Jonathon Swift that Mr. Prather found research on IS the Swift of the legend.

I have found several other John/Jonathon Swifts but almost all are on lists of British soldier rosters or listed as captured British soldiers. Must have been a common name given in England after the author of Gulliver's Travels.

The journals speak of him being English, if they speak of his heritage. Maybe one of them deserted to the colonies. There were British soldiers in the colonies, weren't there How was the taxes collected for the Crown Maybe that is the answer to why he's so hard to trace ?