Swift Silver??

[Curtis]

Just asking .... could the welsh have influenced the Vikings language used to write?

 

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[KY Hiker]

After speaking with a friend who is an avid amateur geology geek, he had told me that KY is like the grand central station of geologic events. Between glacial events forming the Ohio river to the North, App. Mts to the East, Ozarks and Miss. River West, the 'Ancient Sea' that covered the state (sorry forgot the period he mentioned) and several meteor strikes in places across the state we have a little bit of everything. This leads me to believe that what most geologists have to say about KY and Silver is wrong. There has been a lot of geologic activity here, except volcanic...that I know of.

 

[KY Hiker]

Just asking .... could the welsh have influenced the Vikings language used to write?

No clue, what I have found out is the connection the Welsh had back to the Spanish (Iberian Peninsula) and the Migrations to Wales from Ur to Italy then Iberia then Wales. Alan Wilson has made connections with their written language back to Ur. According to him (Alan), the Welsh Kings early on were the Roman Kings of the West as the Empire was starting its decent. Didn't the Vikings raid parts of Scotland and what would be France? If so, they could have picked up language/writing influences? I know practically nothing about Viking language or runes or text.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Gotta keep doing Research & Investigation (R & I)...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Books by Barry Fell MAY be of interest to you; best one I read was AMERICA, BC... ALSO! SAGA AMERICA!

 

[Curtis]

Thanks, I have Saga America...good stuff. Will have to get America BC.

 

[Curtis]

On the KY geological stuff...We have a geology teacher that has a map with fissures or cracks on it...she can't find it now but I had seen it....the fissures were caused by things below and the impact of the meteors. Those areas might have had material from below brought up...gold silver, etc.

 

[KY Hiker]

Found an Indian Pointer Tree last weekend on a camping trip. Its on a drain one ridge over from where the Red River is joined by Swift Camp Creek. This drain is about 3 miles deep and full of laurel. Tree seems to point NW and is a pine tree that is over 100ft tall and just under 3ft in diameter. . I back tracked from the pointer and it leads up and over the ridge through a narrow gap. Obviously just a trail pointer but interesting that I spotted it...I have passed through this area many times over the years and never noticed it.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The "hole" at the elbow of the "tree", indicates that it is a "messenger" tree. Put a note in the "hole" for SOMEONE...

 

[KY Hiker]

Thanks to you all for making me 'look' for these signs. I normally would have missed this.
There are two natural arches in the general direction of the pointer on the opposite side of the creek up along the ridge. This tree is adjacent to a campsite that the locals used to use while hunting this drain. I noticed a pile of large stones on the opposite side of the camp site from the tree too. Campsite is where about 3 drains meet the creek, maybe a burial pile? or just stones piled when clearing the camp originally? I think I may have found part of the trail used by indians through the Red River Gorge. Next time I get out there I'll walk the pointer direction and see if there is another tree!

Forgot to mention, this drain is fed by a water fall...it disappears and reappears a couple of times before emptying into the Red River. Sounds like a passage from the Swift Journal ... I think it was called or named the drying ground? About 3-4miles further in the pointer direction is 'Indian Stairway' which is where the Frog's Head carving is... this may be something....

 

[Curtis]

It sure sounds good...you also mentioned another key feature..three streams come together...is there a couple of monument rocks in the stream?

 

[KY Hiker]

It sure sounds good...you also mentioned another key feature..three streams come together...is there a couple of monument rocks in the stream?

Hmm, yea more than just a couple. Not sure how to define the boulders....monuments in my mind are like those found in graveyards. Tall and thin, nothing like that, that I saw. I should have taken more pictures! As I came up the main user trail I noticed several places have cabin size boulders leaning on each other and the creek flows under and around them. In two places at least, the creek drops into what looks like a cave system and the creek bed goes dry. I guess it only carries water when it rains heavy enough that the caves reach capacity. I really have not been up this drain since I started reading this forum, which makes me think what else I missed many years ago. Sad part is, its so thick back there you really can't see any distance in the valley unless its in the Winter. Anything over a hundred yards away becomes invisible. As the map shows, this is really only about 1 mile hike to the campsite from the road, its very accessible. I really want to find the 'old trace' the indians used through the Red River Gorge. The part I backtracked up the hill had about a 8-10 inch depression and 30 inches wide with some trees growing in it up to 8 inches in diameter. It was obviously old trail. ... wasn't there a passage in a version of the legend about Mundy having to move down the river to find the indian trace or thicket to know the way? There is both in this valley...! Mt. Laurel is everywhere, its like a Rhodo jungle.

 

[Curtis]

The mountain laurel is supposed to be all around where Monday was looking for the start of the trail...you maybe on to more...you might PM Boomer, he knows about most of the Indian Traces/trails that are known. Even the jenny Wiley trail was an Indian trace. The traces were also usually buffalo trails. The monument rocks could be anything...tall comes to my mind also, but could just be large boulder they carved on for a monument, surveyors made monument rocks also..so could just have a X carved in it. The creek flowing under a rock sounds pretty good too! he says it was a large rock...keep looking!

 

[KY Hiker]

You know I never even thought about the monument rocks being like a surveying monument rock! Interesting take.
The sad part about the laurel is its everywhere in the valleys of the Red River Gorge, just especially thick in this drain I think because of its orientation to the sun...the whole valley gets Southern exposure. If I can establish the indian trace through this section and to the indian stairway, I might be able to compare it to the Swift journals. I think just finding several of these trees and the depression of the trace between them would be an excellent and historically significant find. What you have on caney is more than likely the site of the upper mines. If the lower ones are in or near the Red River Gorge they were/are probably where Mrs. Timmin's was digging along Swift Camp Creek. She had a much earlier and probably more original version of the Journal.
No doubt this drain has several features described in the journals.
I have no thoughts of stumbling upon some lost mine or cave, historically the RRG has been heavily logged twice and combed over many times by many hundreds of people over the years. If the mine exists its probably tucked away on someones private land somewhere and they have no clue. These trail trees are the last remaining markers of routes through what was KY wilderness. Pin these routes down and the landmarks of the journals should fall into place. Proving the legend as factual is more my goal than finding a booty of silver. Of course finding silver helps prove the legend as fact too!

 

[Curtis]

You are on to a neat thing....again ol Boomer is a good source for old trails..several of his posts included maps of were Indian trails/trace were.

 

[shooterike]

Very pure silver does not appear in nature, so it must have gone through a refining process conducted by someone. That "someone" was unlikely to have been John Swift as his name does not appear on the London Goldsmiths' Marks until 1774-75. Shortly after that, according to the journal, Swift was thrown in prison by the Crown for siding with the American Colonies at the beginning of the Rev War. Swift was not released until after the Treaty of Paris ended the Rev War in 1786 and Swift had grown old and nearly blind before he could return to the newly created United States. Because of these facts, I think Swift was actually a pirate and went to England to learn the Gold/Silversmiths' trade launder his dirty money.

 

[KY Hiker]

I don't believe the pirate story holds water. He was known in the shipping business as a merchant. But never arrested for piracy, he was not a privateer either. Why carry silver hundreds of miles inland to re-coin and risk death from the indians when it could have been done much closer to shore? The indians had silver before the Europeans got here and dozens of people have made coins in E. KY since its founding. It just don't add up.

 

[Curtis]

I have to agree with KY Hiker, As I mentioned when someone put that in a book, the fact that he was arrested for counterfeiting and they had to release him because his coins had more pure silver(he had people that knew how to smelt) flies in the face of pirates.

Then he was also buying ships and putting them out for hauling cargo. If they were pirates they could have stopped on any deserted island and melted the stolen coins and made the new ones there (even could done it onboard) why take them down into KY and chance being killed or loosing it ...just stop at an island.

 

[Brushy Bandit]

Very pure silver does not appear in nature, so it must have gone through a refining process conducted by someone. That "someone" was unlikely to have been John Swift as his name does not appear on the London Goldsmiths' Marks until 1774-75. Shortly after that, according to the journal, Swift was thrown in prison by the Crown for siding with the American Colonies at the beginning of the Rev War. Swift was not released until after the Treaty of Paris ended the Rev War in 1786 and Swift had grown old and nearly blind before he could return to the newly created United States. Because of these facts, I think Swift was actually a pirate and went to England to learn the Gold/Silversmiths' trade launder his dirty money.

Nice to hear from ya , later in the thread and a about a year of education later I posted the true % of silver after I learned it. Mostly zinc, antimony, and lead but both pieces contain silver 1 as much as 16 %.
Although Swift may have did some swashbuckling, I don't Think it makes sense to go into the wild of Kentucky to counterfeit crowns. Would be a lot of risk and chance to take with only the same reward as doin it in any easier location.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! Didn't counterfeit Brit Crowns; counterfeited Gold & Silver coins for AMERICAN colonies, "melted down" from "booties" (Pirates Loots)… A NEW ENTERPRISE!