the great deception of swift

[KY Hiker]

Other Explorers

 

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[Ken S.]

Other Explorers

This article could be an explanation why there was a carving of a Crane on Paint Creek that is now covered with water.

 

[KY Hiker]

Yes, the Crane is carved in many places East of I-75. Almost as much as the 101 carvings are.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Marking his territory...

 

[Curtis]

It seems insane to think someone would rob the ships, then take the plunder all the way inland to KY to melt it down..remember that he was arrested because his silver was better than the kings! And like I have said too many times, they could stop on an abandoned island and smelt it...or do it on the ship...they had forges on ships back in the 1600s ...why pack it into Indian territory and back out again? Silly...but you asked.

 

[KY Hiker]

greetings to everyone i know this is a new can of worms however it needs to be explored john swift in most of what he wrote in his journal was completly deceptive , but only in his discriptions of locations of his mines and his travels to and from his mines after intering ky. most discriptions is of his lower and his west mines in his travels thru ky. he marked different areas i beleve for deception purposes as we know after 1764 there is no mention of lower or his west mines and no descriptions of travels to or discriptions of his upper mines in his journal . why ? i believe at this time hr abondoned these mines at this time because of much easier acess and richer values in his upper mines. if the upper mines were of richer values and eaiser access why return to the other mines . i also believe the great shawnee cave was also a deception if it was sacred i doubt he would have access to store his large amount of metals he said he stored there yes he probably did know about it but what better way to decieve others . mabey im wrong ? give me your thoughts this is just the way i see things .

Still reading Prather's book on Swift....Long John Silver connection. Mr. Prather also has a theory that Swift was creating a deception by buying properties that had similarities to journal entries to throw people off track in their search. He seems to think the actual location of a silver mine would be in the region around Bardstown, E-town and westward over towards Ft. Knox (Gold depository). All of these areas are not 'clifty' but they are hilly. Also this area is about 60 miles North of the massive cave systems including Mammoth, the worlds longest and mostly unexplored cave.
I am beginning to think the 'mines' were lead mines that also produced silver, the lead helped support the military while the silver was minted for their profit. Whether those receiving the lead knew of the silver 'on the side' is not known. Of all the silver mined in the world, only 25% is from veins of silver...the other 75% is extracted from Lead, Gold and Zinc mining. KY has lead mines in several different parts of the state. Missouri and Illinois also have lead mines. Also, salt is needed in large quantities to refine the silver, so a salt lick source would need to be nearby any refining/coining location. There was a massive salt operation in Bullet county. On the Southern edge of the Filson map (South of the Green River) its marked * A Fine Lead Mine. Hardin, Marion and Washington Counties are the areas Mr. Prather suggests the silver mine was located. Specifically around Rough River (another river dam that is now a lake). Would it not be the best spot to place the Gold Depository underground in an old lead/silver mine?
Just to stir the pot...many believe, including Prather, that Swift was a Mason...FDR had the Gold Depository built at Ft. Knox, wasn't FDR a Mason as well? Someone posted in a thread on here about the Swift Journal being an alagory with Masonic symbolism throughout it. Just something to think about.

I linked this before in another thread but here it is again. You might want to save it to your HD for future reference. Mineral map of KY pay attention to Pb (lead/galena) and Zn (zinc) deposits. Geology won't lie, but geologists might!

https://kgs.uky.edu/kgsweb/olops/pub/kgs/mc26_12.pdf

 

[Ken S.]

Who would think that if they are hiding valuable minerals with dams and lakes, state, and national parks that they are going to put it on a map ?

 

[KY Hiker]

Who would think they are hiding mineral deposits with dammed up rivers anyway? The Army Corps of Engineers designed them just like they did the levy systems along the Mississippi River. Flood control was the first reason, secondary to that is recreational facilities (boating, fishing, camping ect). That was the selling point, 'it will boost tourism in your local economy'. Many rivers in KY are along faults and mineral deposits come up via faults, so it could be just a coincidence ? Besides, geology won't lie and most of KY, because of coal exploration, has been scanned by satellite and probed with core drills. There is only one place on the map Uranium occurs, it is sought after worldwide, and its right beside a rural road in the Red River Gorge. I would bet Uranium is higher in price per ounce than silver and probably gold too.

The state and national parks don't hide the fact they are 'protecting the natural resources of the area'. I think Teddy Roosevelt set the park system up for that very reason...

I just won't do that black helicopter stuff...

 

[Ken S.]

There are more fault in that end of the state so there should have been more minerals jump up in the cracks on that end of the state. Some of the faults in that area connect with the New Madrid Fault system. The more acorns on the ground the better chance a blind hog has finding one. As for Swifts Mines does the days traveled from Alexandra Va. or any where else match up with the time it would have taken to get to that area? There are some good explanations as to why Swift went blind in his later years. Some of the gases/fumes that can be encountered while smelting will cause it. Some will cause much worse.

 

[KY Hiker]

There are more fault in that end of the state so there should have been more minerals jump up in the cracks on that end of the state. Some of the faults in that area connect with the New Madrid Fault system. The more acorns on the ground the better chance a blind hog has finding one. As for Swifts Mines does the days traveled from Alexandra Va. or any where else match up with the time it would have taken to get to that area? There are some good explanations as to why Swift went blind in his later years. Some of the gases/fumes that can be encountered while smelting will cause it. Some will cause much worse.

I wondered that as well, if smelting down lead from ore then extracting the silver from it had to be rough on the lungs and eyes....soot and fumes galore. But the blindness could be false too. Could be it was all a wild goose chase? Dunno. And no, those areas do not fit the time traveled distances in the journals...but that could be part of the deception too. A line from the journals says something like 'we traveled a considerable distance West.' Its a logical hunch that it could be South and Southwest of the Louisville area, when Swift purchased this land he was long gone in the Journal timeline. The dates don't match, the places don't match, some of the landmarks do. I still need time to wrap my head around all of this and see what precipitates out. Its impossible to find facts within a theory based on a hunch.

 

[Ken S.]

I wondered that as well, if smelting down lead from ore then extracting the silver from it had to be rough on the lungs and eyes....soot and fumes galore. But the blindness could be false too. Could be it was all a wild goose chase? Dunno. And no, those areas do not fit the time traveled distances in the journals...but that could be part of the deception too. A line from the journals says something like 'we traveled a considerable distance West.' Its a logical hunch that it could be South and Southwest of the Louisville area, when Swift purchased this land he was long gone in the Journal timeline. The dates don't match, the places don't match, some of the landmarks do. I still need time to wrap my head around all of this and see what precipitates out. Its impossible to find facts within a theory based on a hunch.

There is probably a little truth in every one of the journals , because in every lie there is a little bit of truth. As for Swifts Mines if there is such a creature, there is no way days traveled spoke of in any of the journals would land ya that far west. I would think the timelines given in journals would put you at best in the far eastern part of Ky. Lex. and beyond. From Alexandria to Cumberland Gap and then to Mammoth Cave area would be 5,6 or maybe 700 miles.

 

[KY Hiker]

From what I had figured before from the time traveled in the journals getting to Lexington (bluegrass region in general) is a huge stretch. The Beattyville, Campton and RRGorge areas are on the maximum end of that distance. Its basically 3 weeks light coming in and 4 weeks heavy coming out plus or minus a few days. What I was saying is that the time traveled may be a deception to make the reader think its in E.KY when its actually in middle KY near Green River. So far Prather's book makes no mention of the details of time traveled, that is either overlooked or does not fit his theory.

 

[Ken S.]

From what I had figured before from the time traveled in the journals getting to Lexington (bluegrass region in general) is a huge stretch. The Beattyville, Campton and RRGorge areas are on the maximum end of that distance. Its basically 3 weeks light coming in and 4 weeks heavy coming out plus or minus a few days. What I was saying is that the time traveled may be a deception to make the reader think its in E.KY when its actually in middle KY near Green River. So far Prather's book makes no mention of the details of time traveled, that is either overlooked or does not fit his theory.

Prather in writing his book I figure he is more concerned with revenue from the book than finding the mine. I listened to his presentation at Prestonsburg . I wasn't impressed that much. Yes he done a lot of research but to much doesn't add up in my thinking. Even at that there is bits of info that are good to aid in the search.

 

[KY Hiker]

That presentation in Prestonsburg was focused on the land purchases in that part of the state. So far in the 3rd edition of his book he has not even mentioned those same properties. His focus on family research of the Swift's and his known dealings in Alexandria and the buying and selling of land West of Lexington and South of Louisville has been the bulk of the book so far. Maybe there was a rewrite from the first edition? or I have not got to the part of the book that covers what he had spoke of in Prestonsburg.

 

[Ken S.]

Someone posted a phrase ( Geology wont lie) . I n doing some studying on the geology of the area that Timmons was said to have found a rich silver vein/ore and the general geology of Eastern Ky. It surprises me that there isn't a hole through every hill in Ky. east of Campton to the Va, W.Va. and Ohio borders. Some very interesting facts when ya really study the geologic facts about the area. The fact is that the area is all of the (Lower Pennsylvanian - Middle Pennsylvanian) age .

 

[KY Hiker]

Someone posted a phrase ( Geology wont lie) . I n doing some studying on the geology of the area that Timmons was said to have found a rich silver vein/ore and the general geology of Eastern Ky. It surprises me that there isn't a hole through every hill in Ky. east of Campton to the Va, W.Va. and Ohio borders. Some very interesting facts when ya really study the geologic facts about the area. The fact is that the area is all of the (Lower Pennsylvanian - Middle Pennsylvanian) age .

Yea, that was me. What originally attracted many to the RRGorge area when it comes to Silver, including Mrs. Timmins, is the unique geology of the area. When you start peeling back the onion of geological information about East KY, North KY and West KY you can easily get overwhelmed with the layers of transformation that happened here. Kentucky in general is a geologic crossroads and a case study when you start digging down into that rabbit hole. In the gorge, with 200ft cliffs, eons of deposits are exposed. Erosion is the name of the game there now. Its all slowly washing away into the Red then the KY then the Ohio, into the Mississippi and on into the gulf. The high concentration of natural arch formations (over 100) in the area make it a good candidate for the Swift journal descriptions. She found gold and silver in Swift Camp Creek, it just was not in paying amounts. And it looks like the folks in the region had heard enough people cry wolf with finding Swifts mine that she could get no investors/laborers to sink a shaft and follow the deposit down. If it wasn't Swift in that area, someone was working it prior to her re-discovery of the ore.

 

[Ken S.]

If one looks at the Ky. geological maps they area from Campton East was all formed along the same timeline so what is there should be in most of the area at some depth .

 

[KY Hiker]

I think you are referring to the sediment rock deposits from the ancient sea? That is mostly sandstone, and from what I have read the metals are below that layer. Precious metals come from metamorphic stone I do believe. These would seep up through fissures from volcanic or thermal activity or from severe impacts into the crust from space. I am no geologist though, so find an expert to get a definite answer to that.

I have yet to get an answer on the hemispherical cavities I see on cliff faces and under some rock houses. What was deposited there that washed out and left the round hole shapes. I need to befriend a good geologist I guess.

 

[franklin]

From what I had figured before from the time traveled in the journals getting to Lexington (bluegrass region in general) is a huge stretch. The Beattyville, Campton and RRGorge areas are on the maximum end of that distance. Its basically 3 weeks light coming in and 4 weeks heavy coming out plus or minus a few days. What I was saying is that the time traveled may be a deception to make the reader think its in E.KY when its actually in middle KY near Green River. So far Prather's book makes no mention of the details of time traveled, that is either overlooked or does not fit his theory.

Ky Hiker, I too came up with the same conclusion years ago. A good source was the exploration parties or survey parties that went into Kentucky. Christopher Gist and the other one, Thomas Walker. But anyway they listed from Washington Area to Kentucky all of the stop overs and the mileage between sleep overs and campsites. They even listed where they found a wall of burnish brass and Christopher Gist said if this be gold it is the richest deposit he had ever seen. This was a little SE of Lexington Kentucky. The Thomas Walker survey party was the one that gave the campsites and old campsites. Daniel Boone also made surveys and kept records as well as Joseph Martin, founder of Martin's Station. That is where the first silver was brought to in 1776 by two trappers. You can find most of this in the Draper Manuscripts or on line by google of "The Long Hunters."

 

[Ken S.]

I think you are referring to the sediment rock deposits from the ancient sea? That is mostly sandstone, and from what I have read the metals are below that layer. Precious metals come from metamorphic stone I do believe. These would seep up through fissures from volcanic or thermal activity or from severe impacts into the crust from space. I am no geologist though, so find an expert to get a definite answer to that.

I have yet to get an answer on the hemispherical cavities I see on cliff faces and under some rock houses. What was deposited there that washed out and left the round hole shapes. I need to befriend a good geologist I guess.

I live within 2 miles of a fault in one direction and 4 miles of a fault in another direction. So this being the case there may be a gold/silver vein/mine in my backyard ?? Is that what you're saying?? I can look at a geologic map of Ky. and pinpoint where I live by the fault lines and zoom right in on my place . Guess that might be a good thing if looking for silver or gold, not so good if we start talking earthquake.