swift travels

[rgb1]

got a question did swift travel the river or over land

 

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[Ken S.]

That is a question that has been bated around a bit on here but don't know as I've ever heard any conclusions to it. I have wondered about it myself. From what I've read and the way most of the journals read I think they point toward travel by land. Reason I say that is they always speak of crossing rivers and creeks,

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well, he traveled from Virginia...

 

[KY Hiker]

got a question did swift travel the river or over land

Depends on which year... One trip tends to lean toward a river trip down the Ohio from Ft. Pitt (Pittsburgh). Names all the major streams in order coming down the Ohio to the Sandy. Certainly that trip would have been easier (and faster too) by raft than by traveling the banks of the Ohio...especially considering they wanted to avoid Indian contact. But it says nothing of them traveling by raft/boat. Other trips do make mention of following creeks and streams.

Doubtful they would need as many pack animals if they used boats...but their routes back from the mines would weigh towards overland travel...

All in all as the journals in general read I would say they did overland travel.

 

[Ken S.]

i would imagine the exploration trip they first made would have been the most likely trip for them to have possibly rafted down the Ohio, because the first year they where more or less making preparations to mine the following year.

 

[rgb1]

i done some research did not think they could travel up river in flat boats turns out long as there is not overwelming currents they did this surprised me

 

[Ken S.]

It is possible they could go upstream by push poles as long as current wasn't to swift or the river to deep. So it would depend on weather and water conditions, Water conditions was much different back then without all the locks and dam systems of today.

 

[KY Hiker]

i done some research did not think they could travel up river in flat boats turns out long as there is not overwelming currents they did this surprised me

It is possible but not probable. Using poles would require them to keep closer to the bank of whatever river they were on, and make them much more likely to be attacked from shore. It would be very slow going almost the same as walking on shore... they would also have to stop on shore to sleep with their back to the water there would be limited ways to escape Indian attack. Considering they never mention river travel in any of the journals I find it highly unlikely.
rgb1 why are you thinking this as an option? Just thinking outside the box can pay off if you think about all the years that have gone by without a definite find of any mine location.
The more I consider the legend and the amount of time and effort over the years put into searching, I am inclined to think it was a pit mine(s) and not your standard 'mine' opening similar to a cave. People would walk right by or around a depression thinking it was a sink hole or cave collapse. What better way to conceal a mine than make it look like another sink hole?

 

[Ken S.]

Now take into consideration the times they were traveling. There's usually about 3 months that water conditions would have let them traveled up stream by river, July, Aug. Sept... Some years the months might change a month or might be 4 months. Does this line up with the dates given in the journals that they were traveling ??

 

[KY Hiker]

River levels from Spring rains should be considered when looking at the journals using overland routes. Even at the fords of rivers, these high and rapidly moving waters would make the river crossings extremely dangerous...most likely making them wait for the waters to drop to cross.

Cumberland Falls this time last year.


Typical Cumberland Falls water level.


I know, the falls are not a fording location but it works for comparison.

 

[rgb1]

hiker in answer to your question i always try to think out of the box trying to read between the lines with an open mind i do not jump to conclusions until i have something concrete i tryto look at all possibilities look back at some of my post when you read my book you will have a better understandingof things i have said if i ever get it done .

 

[KY Hiker]

hiker in answer to your question i always try to think out of the box trying to read between the lines with an open mind i do not jump to conclusions until i have something concrete i tryto look at all possibilities look back at some of my post when you read my book you will have a better understandingof things i have said if i ever get it done .

Unfortunately we all have to use the journals as a starting point. Since none of us know if or which one is true or been altered one thought is as good as another at this point. I am probably alone in that, I am simply wanting to know the historical truth behind the legend. I have no desire to lay a claim or mine and refine silver/gold as I have said before. So I look at it from a logical and historical perspective.
I read Mr. Prather's book a second time, his research on the historical Swift is convincing. One thing that makes no sense to me though...Swift bought and sold huge tracts of land in what is now KY. In most cases the transactions are written down for 5 shillings or thereabouts. Now who buys and/or sells land for much less than cost of a plow horse of that time? Something else was going on and the land deals were a cover. If the silver mine story was a ploy to sell land for profit they were showing no profit for it at those prices. There is a story behind the scenes of what has been written in the land entry books. This could very well have been a covert operation with a lot of disinformation spread about, even the very dates of the travels in and out of KY.
Gen. Washington had a network of operatives and spies during the revolutionary war, Swift very well may have been one...he was a member of the same Masonic Lodge and friend of Gen. Washington.
All this being said, I am not discounting the probability Swift was mining in KY. But something else was going on behind the scenes.

 

[rgb1]

you may be right i just do not put much faith in prathers book or swift of the mines being the same john swift of the mines

 

[Ken S.]

60 years ago land in e Ky. was only $35 an acre. Some even cheaper. Back in the early 20th century people traded mineral rights of their large property tracks that is worth millions now for a $10 shotgun from Montgomery Wards catalog. I have no problem believing the price of wilderness land back in the 1700s or early 1800s and then to top that cheap price ya had to fight the Idians off.

 

[Ken S.]

Anyone that has never went through old deed books at a court house just wouldn't believe some of the deals that was made no more than 100 or so years ago. May not be that way every where but the 2 that I've had the pleasure of digging through was amazing.

 

[KY Hiker]

you may be right i just do not put much faith in prathers book or swift of the mines being the same john swift of the mines

I understand, but don't mistake his research with faith in any form. I don't agree with Mr. Prather's premise or conclusions in his book but his research is very good.
Almost all the versions of the legend I have read, and most of the surviving journals I have come across state that John Swift (or Captain Jonathan Swift) was from Alexandria, VA or traveled to and from Alexandria, VA. to the mines somewhere West of the Sandy river. Now it's been a long time since I took Probability and Statistics in school...the chances of finding another John Swift from Alexandria who bought, sold and owned land in what is now KY in close to the same time frame as the legend would be extraordinary.

I have never revealed this before, and anyone searching through online archives can find old newspaper adds in Alexandria, VA and other ports of barges and frigates with very VERY interesting names related to the legend as it still exists today... were these boats named after Swift Legend characters or visa versa? I'll let those willing to spend the time online researching to answer that question by referring to the newspaper add date(s).
Again I state that there is some sort of story behind the story of the legend. Covert or overt ... something was happening out here in the wilderness while the war was being fought back East. There is always a nugget of truth in every legend that gets passed down generation to generation.
Sometimes cover stories are created to hide or disguise things...

 

[KY Hiker]

i done some research did not think they could travel up river in flat boats turns out long as there is not overwelming currents they did this surprised me

Sounds reasonable! As I recall, almost as many people came by flat boat down the Ohio as through the gap to settle in KY. Later there were many that came by way of Zaine's trace or trail (Zainesville, OH) as well. If I remember right, Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn used poles on the Mississippi in those books ...I think some early ferrys operated with rope and poles also...just ask Josy Wales !!

 

[KY Hiker]

Swift's son or grandson's obit from
Alexandria gazette & daily advertiser August 09, 1819

 

[KY Hiker]

President Washington presented Swift with a portrait as a gift as recalled by this article...
From the Alexandria gazette February 04, 1888



notice also that Swift, a fellow mason, attended Washington's funeral.

He was also there when the cornerstone of the U.S. Capitol bldg was placed.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There were "Masonic Clues" allegedly made by Swift on his journey to the mines...