Multi Kruzer Problem out of the box-Bad Purchase and Support Experience

[RobNC]

**Update- I emailed the owner of the company I purchased this from and told him what happened. He wrote me back and said he was going to call metaldetector.com about this.
I will update this post when there is a response.**

After many years away from detecting I purchased a new Makro Multi Kruzer along with a separate coil. After this I'm starting to remember why I stopped detecting. It's sad too because I enjoy metal detecting but do not enjoy paying a lot of money for something and getting bent over. So here goes my journey so far with my re-entry into detecting:
From the beginning i was concerned because there was some sort of shipping issue and UPS sent my package in circles for a few days. I called the seller and mentioned this and my concern of getting a bad unit due to the extra handling, and even gave him the tracking so he could take a look. He told me it should not be a problem but that if there was a problem he would take care of it. As you will see this was not the case.

Upon arrival I assembled the machine then fully charged the detector and headphones.
I turned the machine on in the house to test it for function and on some targets (air test).
From the factory it was set to show backlight on target detection. That is when I seen the problem. The backlight on the right side was dimly lit. When I pressed a button the light flickered again on that side then went bright. A gentle tap on the control unit made the light come on full brightness as it should have been. So then I turned the backlight on constant for further testing. Any key pressing or even movement of the detector results in the backlighting becoming dimmer or bright on that one side.

For lack of a better description, it seems like there is a either a short or some sort of bad connection with the backlight function. The detector accurately detects targets in the air but I have not taken this detector out yet in the field due to weather (lots of rain and muddy ground) and of course the issue I've seen.

Now we move on to the most frustrating part of all this.
Before I purchased this unit I spoke with the sales manager of the company I decided to buy from and he assured me if there were any problems they would make it right. Well now I have a problem and what have they done? They referred me to the "distributor" and gave me a phone #. I do have the owner's email address and he is the one I have corresponded with so far concerning this situation. *update* Ed Huffman has been very good with me over the weekend. Nothing I can say bad about this man or his company.

I called the distributor (metaldetector.com)Friday 01/04/19 spoke with them and they gave me the run around and told me I had to deal directly with Nokta and told me to go on their website and contact them.
So here I am stuck with a brand new detector I paid almost $900 for including the extra coil and I can't even get an exchange unit. I did send contact to Nokta but no idea what they will do seeing as how they are in a different country. There is no way I'm going to pay shipping to them and hope it doesn't get lost on the way while waiting who knows how long.


This is very frustrating to me as I have no course of action at this point to clear this issue up. Any reputable company would have said "we will be glad to exchange that unit with a new one". That did NOT happen. I bought the Kruzer based on its waterproof design and the features it had. I'd not heard or read any bad things about it.

Some other things I observed about this machine:
1) The arm cup bottom is open and not very good to use as a rest when it is sat down on a surface. It is also not cushioned in any way where your arm makes contact.
2) The lower rod where it connects to the coil seems to be flimsy. I do wonder in time if it will be a problem.
3) The unit itself is chattery but I hear this is normal "in the air".( I have it on 3 tone mode).

What would I do if I had it to do all over again?
I would get either a Garrett AT Max or a Minelab Equinox 600

 

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[Tahts-a-dats-ago]

Hang in there RobNC.

Dilek (Nokta/Makro) is great about responding to people with questions about Nokta/Makro machines and taking care of any problems. You might want to read some of the threads in this forum - Dilek has given her personal email address in some of her responses. Lacking that, there is an excellent chance that she'll see your post and respond in this very thread. Give her a few days though - she is extremely busy.

You're in good hands. Every company should be so lucky as to have a Dilek representing them.

The MMK is an excellent machine. I think you will be very pleased with your purchase once the issues have been addressed.

 

[RobNC]

Hang in there RobNC.

Dilek (Nokta/Makro) is great about responding to people with questions about Nokta/Makro machines and taking care of any problems. You might want to read some of the threads in this forum - Dilek has given her personal email address in some of her responses. Lacking that, there is an excellent chance that she'll see your post and respond in this very thread. Give her a few days though - she is extremely busy.

You're in good hands. Every company should be so lucky as to have a Dilek representing them.

The MMK is an excellent machine. I think you will be very pleased with your purchase once the issues have been addressed.

Yes I've read about how they take care of things and about her specifically. However I think the process itself has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Not so much because of the detector but the part about not offering me an exchange. I am of the opinion the problem was shipping. Below is a snippet of the horrible journey the detector took to get to me. I think after seeing it all will understand it was handled a very long time and should not have been.
If anything, the company should send me out a new unit with a return shipping label and file a claim with UPS.

Delivered 01/03/2019 2:46 P.M. NC, US

DELIVERED

Past Event
Out for Delivery 01/03/2019 8:24 A.M. Greensboro, NC, United States

Out For Delivery Today
01/03/2019 7:54 A.M. Greensboro, NC, United States Loaded on Delivery Vehicle
01/03/2019 5:38 A.M. Greensboro, NC, United States Destination Scan
01/03/2019 2:39 A.M. Greensboro, NC, United States Arrival Scan
01/03/2019 1:17 A.M. Raleigh, NC, United States Departure Scan
01/02/2019 11:11 A.M. Raleigh, NC, United States Arrival Scan
01/02/2019 5:14 A.M. Laurel, MD, United States Departure Scan
12/31/2018 1:33 P.M. Laurel, MD, United States Arrival Scan
12/31/2018 9:19 A.M. Edison, NJ, United States Departure Scan
12/30/2018 10:03 P.M. Raleigh, NC, United States Departure Scan
12/30/2018 9:11 P.M. Raleigh, NC, United States Arrival Scan
12/29/2018 10:27 A.M. Edison, NJ, United States Arrival Scan
12/29/2018 6:16 A.M. Warwick, RI, United States Departure Scan
12/28/2018 11:25 P.M. Warwick, RI, United States Arrival Scan
12/28/2018 8:22 P.M. Ashland, MA, United States Departure Scan
Past Event
Shipped 12/28/2018 6:33 P.M. Ashland, MA, United States

Origin Scan
Past Event
Label Created 12/28/2018 4:48 P.M. United States

Order Processed: Ready for UPS

I do ordering at work all the time, and usually things from NJ or MA come to us in 2-3 days maximum. The issue was it went back up north for some apparent reason. Just a mess in general.

 

[sataro]

Sorry to hear you are having issues with your new machine. I’m on my third detector from Nokta/Makro. Great company & great detectors. Dilek does a great job representing this company & taking care of problems.

 

[RobNC]

Some more updates. I've been talking via email to Ed Huffman of Treasure Mountain Detectors about this. He's been very good over the weekend with me. We've discussed this and he's doing everything he can on his end to be helpful.
I even have some other avenues and ideas we have discussed if he can't get any satisfaction out of metaldetector.com on Monday when he will speak to them about this for me.
I am enclosing some links here to a couple photos and a movie showing the screen light problem.

These first two links are still shots in varying light showing an artifact on the screen with it on. That is separate issue of the backlight problem. This weird distortion can be seen with detector off also.
https://rwtotaltech.space/Kruzer/kruzer_display1.jpg
https://rwtotaltech.space/Kruzer/kruzer_display2.jpg

This link is a small movie on my phone. I apologize for the jumpiness but had one hand on phone, other on detector.
The tapping you hear is my finger tapping the shaft in the rear where your arm goes. I was using my index finger and it wasn't a hard tap. Surely less movement than would be out in the field if you should sit down your detector. If you look on the right side of the screen you can see the light brighten then dim with movement. That is the problem there.
https://rwtotaltech.space/Kruzer/kruzer_flicker.mp4

I'm interested in your thoughts after seeing these examples.

 

[RobNC]

*Final Words*
I'd like to update this post. As of today 01/09/2019 EST. Some changes have taken place and it is worth noting them here. I will also hand out some plain truth regarding one factor, and it is a bad one.

1) I sent this detector back to Treasure Mountain Detectors and opted for a Minelab Equinox 600 instead with a 35 pointer. I had considered the Equinox in the beginning but I'm not a Minelab fanboy. I do not agree with their greed or high priced accessories. HOWEVER, their stuff WORKS , is designed well, and is manufactured well. Love them or hate them, they get it done. It's hard to admit for me also but when I spend hard earned money I want that item I paid for to work. Do I think it will be perfect? NO. What I do expect though is for it to work out of the box.

2) Dilek sent me an email which I received today. However there is no point in me responding to it now. In that email she asked for a video showing the problem and a picture of the control unit with serial #.

I had originally planned to get an Equinox but didn't and opted for the Multi Kruzer. I can't speculate how it would have done had it not been messed up out of the box. Now the question remains to me, was the problem due to bad manufacture or excessive shipping shock, or was it a previously returned unit. I can not say for certain, and to the credit of Makro, Dilek DID contact me. I give her that. However in the email it was unclear what steps would be taken after seeing the video I was to upload. So this could have went on for a bit time-wise.

I want to re-hash my observations of the multi Kruzer, and in all fairness it never seen ground so this based purely on air testing in the house and also inspection of the machine. We also can not scold it much as it was in my opinion, not a good example of what the multi kruzer IS when it is functioning properly. I will go into that also but these are just my thoughts and "gut feelings".
Multi Kruzer observations:
The Good
The unit itself looks really nice. It's light. There are a number of available coils out there for it. The concept behind the machine is a good one. Sadly I was unable to see its potential.

The Bad
There is no real support in the states for this detector if you have a problem. At least not through metaldetector.com

Their (metaldetector.com) pass the buck move with a "new" machine to me was some of the worst customer service I've ever went through. They refused to do anything about it, referring me to the nokta website contact form. They may be good with certain other brands and support, but surely not with the Makro/Nokta unit I had. So be aware of that. There was absolutely no effort made towards me in good faith or proper customer support about this problem. This is not only a bad way of doing business for end customers but not a good thing for Nokta either.

The Ugly
Again, metaldtector.com dropped the ball and I have high confidence this was a returned unit from someone else they sent out to me as "new". The evidence was in the box itself, and how a flap was torn that I did not do.Their reluctance to take care of the issues I experienced is another bad notch on them also. I think the best thing I can say about them is "you pay your money, you take your chances". I will never again knowingly order any metal detector or accessories that come through them in any way again.

Silver Lining:
Ed Huffmann with Treasure Mountain Detectors really stepped up to the plate with me on this issue. He was extremely kind to me, offered me another path, and delivered on his words. For this, the man and his company have earned my respect. Do not be afraid to order a Minelab device from his company.

Other things to consider:
1) If this detector had been a genuine article in new condition and/or not double shipped it may have been a good unit. I will never know.

At the end of the day when someone pays for a product they expect it to work. In this case it did not work. To make it worse those that could have made it right took a hard-line approach to pass the buck and not do a thing. Nobody wants to be treated badly and blown-off when they have a legitimate problem. It was not Nokta's place to make this detector "right". It was the place who shipped it and took that money from me. And it was NOT Treasure Mountain Detectors that shipped that to me.. But they DID help me make a horrible situation better. So thank you to Ed and his company.

 

[Iffy Signals]

*Final Words*
I'd like to update this post. As of today 01/09/2019 EST. Some changes have taken place and it is worth noting them here. I will also hand out some plain truth regarding one factor, and it is a bad one.

1) I sent this detector back to Treasure Mountain Detectors and opted for a Minelab Equinox 600 instead with a 35 pointer. I had considered the Equinox in the beginning but I'm not a Minelab fanboy. I do not agree with their greed or high priced accessories. HOWEVER, their stuff WORKS , is designed well, and is manufactured well. Love them or hate them, they get it done. It's hard to admit for me also but when I spend hard earned money I want that item I paid for to work. Do I think it will be perfect? NO. What I do expect though is for it to work out of the box.

2) Dilek sent me an email which I received today. However there is no point in me responding to it now. In that email she asked for a video showing the problem and a picture of the control unit with serial #.

I had originally planned to get an Equinox but didn't and opted for the Multi Kruzer. I can't speculate how it would have done had it not been messed up out of the box. Now the question remains to me, was the problem due to bad manufacture or excessive shipping shock, or was it a previously returned unit. I can not say for certain, and to the credit of Makro, Dilek DID contact me. I give her that. However in the email it was unclear what steps would be taken after seeing the video I was to upload. So this could have went on for a bit time-wise.

I want to re-hash my observations of the multi Kruzer, and in all fairness it never seen ground so this based purely on air testing in the house and also inspection of the machine. We also can not scold it much as it was in my opinion, not a good example of what the multi kruzer IS when it is functioning properly. I will go into that also but these are just my thoughts and "gut feelings".
Multi Kruzer observations:
The Good
The unit itself looks really nice. It's light. There are a number of available coils out there for it. The concept behind the machine is a good one. Sadly I was unable to see its potential.

The Bad
There is no real support in the states for this detector if you have a problem. At least not through metaldetector.com

Their (metaldetector.com) pass the buck move with a "new" machine to me was some of the worst customer service I've ever went through. They refused to do anything about it, referring me to the nokta website contact form. They may be good with certain other brands and support, but surely not with the Makro/Nokta unit I had. So be aware of that. There was absolutely no effort made towards me in good faith or proper customer support about this problem. This is not only a bad way of doing business for end customers but not a good thing for Nokta either.

The Ugly
Again, metaldtector.com dropped the ball and I have high confidence this was a returned unit from someone else they sent out to me as "new". The evidence was in the box itself, and how a flap was torn that I did not do.Their reluctance to take care of the issues I experienced is another bad notch on them also. I think the best thing I can say about them is "you pay your money, you take your chances". I will never again knowingly order any metal detector or accessories that come through them in any way again.

Silver Lining:
Ed Huffmann with Treasure Mountain Detectors really stepped up to the plate with me on this issue. He was extremely kind to me, offered me another path, and delivered on his words. For this, the man and his company have earned my respect. Do not be afraid to order a Minelab device from his company.

Other things to consider:
1) If this detector had been a genuine article in new condition and/or not double shipped it may have been a good unit. I will never know.

At the end of the day when someone pays for a product they expect it to work. In this case it did not work. To make it worse those that could have made it right took a hard-line approach to pass the buck and not do a thing. Nobody wants to be treated badly and blown-off when they have a legitimate problem. It was not Nokta's place to make this detector "right". It was the place who shipped it and took that money from me. And it was NOT Treasure Mountain Detectors that shipped that to me.. But they DID help me make a horrible situation better. So thank you to Ed and his company.

Glad it worked out. Good luck with your Nox its a great machine.

 

[Jacza]

I think it's more a problem with your dealer, not with the detector. The Multi Kruzer is basically a very good machine, I'm having a lot of amazing finds with it. Manufacturing errors are normally rare, but can occur. If you had one it's very bad luck

 

[Bottlecapbill]

The truth is, almost ALL warranty issues are supposed to go back to the company who made it these days. The idea of in house return/support system is dying off in the world. I had a problem with mine and the company who sold it to me did the same. Luckily I contacted Makro directly. I sent them a photo of my serial number and a video file of my problem and they literally sent me a whole new control box, and set of waterproof headphones free. Well I had to pay the brokerage free to the shipping company but that's it. I now have a 100% working machine although it took a few weeks since the parts come from Turkey.

As for the machine itself.......it will find anything BUT it's really noisy lol. Totally quiet in the water though, it's a beast in the water.

 

[Dr. Witty]

The dimness or non-working lights on the right hand side is a fairly common issue that I have seen. The lower shaft where the plastic meets the carbon fiber rod will become loose. Most people fix this with JB Weld or epoxy. I have no issues with the Arm cub having no foam. If needed it can be added later. I have absolutely no worries that Makro/Nokta is located in Turkey. They have proved many times over that they will send out replacement parts free of charge without needing the faulty part returned to them. I think this is a huge deal when it comes to customer satisfaction and a big reason that many consumers trust them. I also got my Kruzer from Ed Huffman and got a killer deal on it.

 

[Bottlecapbill]

I've sprayed a two inch wide bar of bed liner spray on my shaft where the CF and plastic join, to prevent the wobble issue before it starts. I always add a bit where the coil wires join the coils as well since the water hunting I do tends to stress that point and cause leaks on most machines I've owend. Bed liner makes everything rock solid.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Rob,

Went through the same crap on a new Gold Kruzer in April and May. Same distributor drop ship. Same inaction. Factory finally stepped in and made things right after a month and half.

My lesson learned: If buying new only buy their stuff from stocking dealers who can make it right if there is a problem. Anything of theirs drop shipped from metaldetectors.com is suspect. I'll never do any business direct or via dealer proxy with metaldetectors.com ever again no matter who the mfg of the unit is.

HH
Mike

 

[Iffy Signals]

Hopefully Nokta opens shop somewhere in the US like Minelab did. Not worth spending all this money and not having support during the warranty period.

 

[Toecutter]

Hard to believe shipping would have caused the damage, my guess faulty board of some sort.....

I seen a post on here somewhere and a guy said " Im from Turkey and no one uses the Nokta we all use Mine Lab".....

Having fan boys is a good thing....

I think Metaldetector.com is the company Aquachigger says to buy from in his videos...

 

[Mike Hillis]

My apologies to metaldetector.com. I will attempt an edit.

My issue was with Detector Electronics.

HH
Mike

 

[yammy]

Didn't realise there were these issues with the Makro Multi Kruzer! I was just considering buying one...used not new.

Buying new here in the UK is not a problem though. Here your contract is with the retailer not the manufacturer and it is for them to sort out replacement, repair, shipping and so on. We have very strong consumer protection here and it sounds like you could do with it in the USA!