what was I thinking?!?

[dump_digger]

So i've remembered why I haven't done this before now and it's because I find it completely overwhelming but I am determined to actually get it done this time. To me, some of the Akro Agate and Peltiers are hard to distinguish. Like the Akro corkscrew Prize name look a lot like some of peltier Peerles patch, which in turn look like the Marble King Rainbows. Is there a secret? Some identiifying characteristic that sticks out? All the slags and swirls seem to look the same. I've decided to just all the slags together, and the swirls, etc then try and narrow it down from there. I do have some that I am completely lost on though that i'll post some pictures of. One last question--how can you determine if it's oxblood?

 

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[cheese]

There is no road map for this and getting started can be the most daunting step. Gleaning from my own experience, here's how I suggest going about it:

1) Learn the styles of marbles before trying to figure out who made them. That's the first step in narrowing down the maker. If you know it's a patch, you just eliminated several makers. If you know it's a slag, you narrowed it down to just a few. Slag, handmade, patch, swirl, patch-ribbon, solid, clearie, clay, stone, corkscrew, cateye, etc...

2) Sort your marbles by style. Put all your patches together and before long you'll start seeing similarities in some of them. The more you handle the marbles and look at them, the sooner things will start to click. Start putting together groups of similar marbles within each style, ones that look like they might be brothers and sisters.

3) What size is the marble? All the old makers made 5/8" marbles, but sometimes knowing your marble is 11/16", 7/8", or 15/16", it can help direct you to one maker over another, increasing your odds of landing on the correct maker for your decision.

4) Learn to identify the cut lines or seams of a marble. These are especially useful in identification. Most all machine made marbles will have 2 cut lines, never more. There will be the cut where the marble made before it was cut off and the marble you are looking at begins, and then the cut at the other end where the glass stream was cut off to make the marble in question. Then the marble dropped onto a set of rollers that rolled the glass into a near perfect sphere.

5) Notice what cutlines from different manufacturers look like. Different manufacturers used different machines with different cutters. Some used the same machines but had their own subtle differences or modifications that changed the mark left by the cutters. Akro cutlines are normally broad curving cut that remind me of the curvature of a man's thumbnail. Sometimes they have little streaks coming off the line and it looks like a closed eyelid with eyelashes. Learn to notice that, and you can ID an akro just by the cutline. Masters also had eyelashes, but the shape of the cutlines is different. Vitro had broad cutlines like akro, but often one side has the broad curvature of a thumbnail and the opposite cutline will be straight with little or no curvature. Peltier cutlines can have a stretched out "S" curvature. Peltier Peerless Patch cutlines can be wavy like the letter "S" or have a bird head shape. CAC cutlines are often very straight and extend 2/3 of the way across the marble. Marble King cutlines can alternate in direction from each other. The cutlines are possibly the most telling part of the marble when making an ID in most cases.

6) Notice the glass. Sometimes I see a marble and without seeing any traits other than the glass color combinations and qualities, I can instantly tell who made it. A yellow based Peltier Peerless Patch with a lime green patch... that marble has glass that is readily distinguishable at a glance. See them enough and you will recognize it from then on. Akro Agate used many types of glass, but they had some glass that almost looks like melted crayons with a high gloss. Very bold, rich coloration and sometimes Akros are IDable by glass alone. Master used a lot of dull earthy colors, translucent, clear, lackluster. Not always, but this plays a part in swaying your brain to one maker or another. Peltier had a blue and a green base glass that is pretty recognizable once you learn it and it was used in a lot of their marbles. A lot of Asian marbles have a carnival glass looking surface on them. Vitro had a purple/lavender that is pretty close to exclusive to their marbles. Sometimes it's just one thing that lends a hint to the maker, so if the seams don't give it up, maybe the color will.

7) Notice the construction and behavior of the pattern. Does the ribbon dive in and out of the marble, or lay on top? Is the patch of color just thin glass veneered over the top of a white base glass, or does the patch look like it's integral to the marble structure? Is the stream/ribbon striated or solid? Does it have ruffles along the sides in the clear parts, or is it smooth? Do the ends of the streams/ribbons have thin long points or angled off tips? Does the stream/ribbon swirl lazily or zig-zag and criss-cross? Does it look like it just looped over on itself one time or did it dribble around all over to make the marble? Does the stream start at one end and circle the marble all the way to the other end and stop? The answers to these questions lead you through a flow-chart to help determine the maker.

8) Look for surface oddities. Popped bubbles leave little craters or "blow holes". The glass cooled, the pressure in the bubble had to escape, and "POP!". Peltier is well known for having those. Most other makers, not-so-much. Does the seam or cutline have a wrinkle in the surface of the marble? Does the marble have an orange-peel texture on the surface?

Start at step one and once you have a good grasp on it, go to step 2. Some steps will be done in minutes, some may take weeks. Some marbles can never be IDed with 100% certainty. Some have traits that conflict with each other as to determining a maker and some just don't give up enough hints or have distinguishable enough traits to be able to narrow them down. The better you understand these steps and what traits belong to which makers, the higher your percentage of correct IDs will be. You can spend a lifetime studying but you will never get them all right all the time. That's the fun of marbles, you never reach a point where you quit learning.

The question of oxblood... all I can say is get one or some from someone who knows (not just ebay... tons of marbles are advertised as having oxblood but they don't). Once you see it a couple of times, it will click and then there will be no question next time you see it. The best way I can describe it is imagine if you melted a dark red brick and used a paintbrush to put it on the marble. That's what it looks like. Dried blood applied with a brush, fingernail polish, etc... It's not transparent, it's not runny or thinned out looking. Google Akro milky oxblood marbles and silver oxblood marbles and you'll see what I mean.

Sorry for the long post, but I've sorta been wanting to put this into words for a while anyway as this is a common topic for beginners looking into the world of marbles.

 

[dump_digger]

Wow, thank you Cheese!! (I like thinking that your real name is actually cheese because it makes me happy). That information will be so helpful, seriously. I've had a lot of these marbles for 20+ years and have always meant to do this, but like I said, it's daunting. I'm determined though, and I will get it done.

 

[cheese]

It really is Cheese! Well, I go by that name in a couple groups of friends anyway. It's Chuck.

 

[Road Dog]

Nicely written Cheese. He does have some Handgatherds and German Handmades as well.

 

[cheese]

Thank you Road Dog! I've been thinking about putting together a little "how-to" article for a while. Hopefully it's helpful to newbies.

 

[drizzlermibs]

So i've remembered why I haven't done this before now and it's because I find it completely overwhelming but I am determined to actually get it done this time. To me, some of the Akro Agate and Peltiers are hard to distinguish. Like the Akro corkscrew Prize name look a lot like some of peltier Peerles patch, which in turn look like the Marble King Rainbows. Is there a secret? Some identiifying characteristic that sticks out? All the slags and swirls seem to look the same. I've decided to just all the slags together, and the swirls, etc then try and narrow it down from there. I do have some that I am completely lost on though that i'll post some pictures of. One last question--how can you determine if it's oxblood?

Please keep the pics coming! Cheese has been of invaluable help to me with ID's. When I first started collecting, I also often referred to Alan's Marble Connection website (http://www.buymarbles.com/marblealan/) for general information on marbles (i.e. various makers) and ID assistance. Some of the info may not be up to date as new info is learned; but it is still a great site. Cheese also mentions this site for more info as well.
http://www.joemarbles.com/1Marble Picture Pages/26Marble Pictures Home Page.htm

 

[drizzlermibs]

Cheese, Your ID guide is fantastic! Any way you can tag it (and keep it) somewhere in this forum as others have suggested?

 

[cheese]

I'm not a moderator, so I have no powers to do so. Maybe a moderator can make it a sticky.

 

[dump_digger]

I've had both Alan's site and Joe's marble pictures on my computer to reference through this process. I only have patches (everything but the Peltier Peerless because I can easily recognize those), and swirls and slags from all the companies. I do have some though that I have absolutely no idea what they are and have been planning on posting them for Cheese's help. I'll try and do that tonight.

 

[PinchedDreamer]

Wow Cheese..... I have at best, found maybe a dozen or so marbles while out hunting rocks. I didn't realize there was so much going on with them. You made me want to go find more. Thanks for the detailed information!

 

[RW]

Awesome thread, but jeesh, marble identification is surely overwhelming for a person with just a passing interest. I come across A LOT of marbles in my searches but can't tell valuable from worthless. Then I see other people scan through a jar and pick a couple out in just a few seconds. I really have no interest in collecting marbles, but I would like to be able to halfway ID a decent marble so I can put it in an appreciative person's hand and make a couple bucks along the way. Without becoming a specialist, are there certain characteristics that a novice can easily spot on the fly without having to research each marble individually?

 

[cheese]

It's easy to just dip your toe in the marble world, as long as you aren't spending money. Trying to invest in marbles in hopes of a return is almost certainyl going to lighten your wallet unless you learn what you're doing. Knowing just enough to get by and having money burning a hole in your pocket is the most dangerous spot to be. Lots of people have spent good money on no good marbles and repros because they knew enough to know the real one like it was worth good money. A genuine set of Peltier comic marbles in the original box in mint condition could easily go for over a grand. There are more repros than originals though. You might find a set for $300 somewhere and think you're making a big score to later find out you've been had. Same with handmade German marbles, painted chinas, gutta perchas, agates, and machine made marbles. Look up an Alley Pistachio, a good, hard to find marble from the 1930s. Then look up a Vacor Troll. That's a modern marble worth virtually nothing. Can you see how hard it is to tell the difference? Look at pics of banded agates... will you be able to tell which ones were handmade 100 years ago and which were machine made last week? And then you have the glass marbles that are old but have been polished. Those can be tricky because a you can get $500 for a nice peltier golden rebel, but a polished one might be worth $50. Grading makes a huge difference as well. Many seasoned collectors still get fooled, so the novice is an easy target and unfortunately there are plenty of folks more than willing to take advantage of that. With marbles, it's best to study a lot, look at pictures, and don't spend any significant money until you have a pretty good handle on what you're doing.

 

[dump_digger]

I finished my sorting awhile back, but I would have never finished if not for Cheese's help. The tip on the cutlines helped me the most.