Whites TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

[Jim Hemmingway]

White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Please click on the attached link to view an updated version of the TDI / Infinium comparison report located in the "Canada" sub-forum here on TNET... thankyou... Jim.

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/c...ntry-infinium-comparison-february-2011-a.html

 

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[Jim Hemmingway]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Lanny... this autumn produced very well, in fact considerably more than my usual amount of silver. No point to give much detail here as it is outside most reader’s experience and would not be viewed as credible.

Since I intend to do an article later this winter about it and other floats…I can relate that my favorite piece was a 101 lb "character" silver / calcite float...rich with thick glittering horns and leaves protruding from creamy white calcite...not much visual evidence by way of dark silver sulfides, very clean, and no evidence whatsoever of any other mineral inclusions... a real conversation piece. It was quite a struggle over several days to get it out of the bush to my truck...but those were the happiest moments of my life bar none. No photo yet...I’ve been busy since getting home just recently with chores that need doing right away in preparation for winter. That’s in addition to cleaning equipment, the truck and camper, laundry, closing the pool and so on. I just started cleaning it last night and I'd prefer to hang on to any photos for a write-up I intend to post here and possibly elsewhere about late January maybe early February 2012. The “dig” is documented with photos as well. Its sufficient to say that this post is appropriate to this thread, with thanks to Jason of Razorback Coils for a great deal on a 19” mono for my TDI Pro…that strategy worked out very well .

Other large specimen-quality floats were also found nearby… and I’m hoping to get them cleaned-up for inclusion into a write-up… but no promises. If winter shows up here and it will shortly…that’s it for cleaning ores out in the patio.

It was a wonderful trip… saw a lot of wildlife, enjoyed blazing campfires and hot tea at night while cleaning silver nuggets and ores to the everpresent forlorn cry of loons, a great horned owl that occasionally took up residence nearby my camper, a fat “butterball” blackbear that took one look at me and ran off in a panic…and otherwise I loved every moment of everything to do with prospecting. I hated to leave, but you can’t dig frozen ground.

It was a relief too that for the first time in four years my focus was not divided by doing an evaluation on a new metal detector. And the weather overall was unbelievably good compared to most autumns…only one sprinkle of snow!! Take care Lanny, looks like we’ll have something to further chat about come mid-winter…

Jim

 

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[kiwi jw]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Hi Jim , WOW......that sounds fantastic & you have had the time of your life by the sounds of it. Cant wait for your write up....& photos. 101 lbs....how on earth did you manage to lug that out without a helicopter??
Thanks too for your huge effort in all the priceless information you have put up here & the beautiful specimen pieces. You really do know your stuff & know these detectors inside out Thank you for sharing.
I havnt been grazing the forums for a wee while & having a bit of a catch up.
Will send you a PM you so i dont hijack your thread.

Merry xmas to you all.

JW

 

[Lanny in AB]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Jim,

That's a find of a lifetime!! I certainly would like to hear more about your trip, and it would be fantastic to see some pictures as well.

You've worked very hard to get where you are--congratulations on all your determined effort, research, and hard work in the field.

All the best, and it will be great to hear more when you've got the time,

Lanny

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

It sure is good to hear from two trusty bushwhackers again. I'd rather not sound too enthusiastic on a forum, but you both read me like a written page...so yes...I was thrilled to get that piece. I'd give up everything I've ever found for it...and be happy to do it.

Lanny you've pegged me right...I've been saying the same thing to my wife when she visited me...a lifetime find. But yet there may very well be more in the area...we'll have to see about that next year. These pursuits never end do they? I've been thinking about different ideas to try next time around...just to see if they pan out.

John....it is darned good to hear from you again and don't ever worry about "highjacking" any thread of mine. The rock was too heavy for me to more than lift it and walk maybe a few yards at a time...tried dragging it at times...but mostly rolled it end over end to get it out. That experience left me with two very sore knees and a "tennis" elbow on my right arm. Had to leave it exposed two separate nights and was in such a snit about it I found it hard to sleep at night. Anyone could have come along and found it...that would have been that...you can imagine my relief at getting it safely into my truck.

Incidentally you guys, over the course of the trip I lost 17 unwanted lbs I've collected over four years of retirement. A lot of pick and shovel work compared to time spend scanning...not adventurous or glamorous in any way. I doubt its for most folks...but on the plus side of the ledger...it sure put me in good shape, in good spirits, and sleeping at night was almost instantaneous...none of the tossing and turning and waking-up through the night that I tend to experience back home....and good silver found as a result.

Thanks for taking an interest...you two are the best.

Jim.

 

[Lanny in AB]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Jim,

Thanks so much for the preliminary write-up on your latest adventure. Man, you sure had a rough time of if getting your piece out, and I completely understand your nervousness--who wouldn't be a bit anxious about packing something that valuable around out in the middle of nowhere?

Keep us posted as you updated things, and once again, congratulations!!

All the best,

Lanny

 

[thompy]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Hi Jim
been a while since I've been on here, sounds like you have the Pi all figured out and are in need of a mule to hall all your great finds out of the bush , i still haven't picked up another machine yet and only had my fathers XLT out once this summer, busy playing on the water, but i must admit the bug is setting in again.
Take care

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Well by golly Steve its good to hear from you again.

Yes it has been a long time and I've missed your posts...yes some of us do notice!!! I agree with you that once the "bug" has gotten into your system, its hard to put it aside for good. Heck...it makes life so much more interesting and see...its got you back here chatting with an old friend.

Now as to the PI units...we can do no less than what is necessary to ensure we get our money's worth out of them I guess. All units have attributes and limitations...the TDI compliments my Infinium nicely over some conditions. I especially appreciate its ability to hunt low conductives in nail ridden environs by simply flipping the tone control to low conductives and the GB control to GB9. Otherwise I'll tell you frankly that for general searching of high and low conductives simultaneously in iron-littered mining areas I prefer my Infinium for reasons outlined in the report. Call it personal preference I guess...but still...I would not be without either unit for silver hunting.

If you do decide to replace your T2, you may want to have a look at the Goldbug Pro. It looks like excellent value to me. I had a chance to look one over briefly and while I didn't have time to do a side-by-side comparison...I was left with an impression it was very close or on a par with my F75 in terms of sensitivity to small stuff with the 5" DD coil at least. And the F75 with either the 6" or 10" elliptical concentric coils is very sensitive to small stuff and to deeper larger nuggets. The stock 11" DD is not so sensitive to very small stuff but does quite well on the deep larger nuggets. That aside, the Goldbug Pro also has good versatility for other applications...not something we've always seen to the same degree in gold prospecting capable units of the past.

Well I won't blab on unnecessarily Steve or you may never come back. In case we don't cross trails again any time soon...Joanne and I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and all the very best in the New Year.

Jim.

 

[ReidMan]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Wow a lot of information. Thanks for the work. Reid

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Hi Reid...many thanks for taking a moment to comment on the article. Yes it was a lot of work and frankly I was not keen on posting it. I felt it was much too complicated but necessary to cover everything off. Were I to do it again I'd likely cut it down by half and leave out the details. Though even as I write this I think... yabut (a new word) you have to back-up your statements about how a unit operates or otherwise don't say it....catch-22.

It's a great unit with a number of very useful attributes for this and other applications. I might add here that our good friend Reg Sniff was instrumental in mentoring us about this unit in the early going. We are forever grateful to him for his tireless effort involved with explaining this unit to us and to many other hobbyists on these forums.

Jim.

 

[63bkpkr]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Jim,
If you had it to do over again what pulse machine would you purchase?.........just curious...............63bkpkr

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Hi 63bkpker,

Both these units are very good at what they were designed to do. The TDI Pro was primarily designed for gold nugget hunting and I have no doubt that it does very well at that task.

What About Iron…

I tend to use the TDI Pro for specific tasks in this application, for example in high nail infested areas, operating in the low conductive tone mode to capture low conductive silver ores while eliminating most nail signals. Silver hunting is a different ballgame from gold hunting insofar as silver normally comes in much larger sizes and signals similar to larger iron…these are easily confused…particularly at depth. Compact large iron presents quite a challenge in this regard whereas either unit is capable of identifying large elongated iron including nails as described in the report. Neither unit can differentiate small low conductive iron from low conductive silver signals.

The Infinium with its automated tones is quick and effective at differentiating elongated iron including nails from silver ores, and in zero discrimination will indicate compact iron such as drillbits, larger milling balls and other non-descript ‘chunky’ iron with a lo-hi tone. Only silver with conductivity at or above fringe zinc penny level will respond similarly and they are an infrequent occurrence. So we have a solid indication that the target is most likely iron and we can choose to ignore it at the risk of ignoring infrequently encountered high conductive silver. We can play the odds and those odds are overwhelmingly in our favor. By contrast…we can choose to check that target in reverse discrimination. If the signal changes to a hi-lo signal AND the signal volume undergoes a serious reduction… we can choose to dig it to avoid the possibility of losing any silver…its your choice based on useful indicative information. Most compact iron as described will change over to a hi-lo signal in reverse discrimination but it tends to retain most of its signal volume… and such iron is mostly what we encounter digging those signals.

By comparison the TDI Pro is not effective at indicating the identity of compact iron. Sometimes with time-consuming GB control adjustments we can obtain a lo-hi-lo definitive iron tone but mostly that is not the case and we have to dig such signals. By and large it’s a waste of time. Secondly…in the low conductive tone mode the TDI Pro will ignore most nails but it does frequently signal over larger elongated iron such as spikes and drillrods with either a good positive signal or a rather spurious signal…in part depending on the coil sweep direction. Now these can be readily identified with a lo-hi-lo tone and often without adjusting the GB control. But it means flipping the toggle into the all-conductive tone mode and sometimes adjusting the GB control to recheck such signals. This takes additional time that adds up over the course of each day. The result of the above is that I can cover much more ground with the Infinium’s automated tones and do so more effectively by avoiding unnecessary digging in tough rocky substrates. So in this respect for general searching my strong preference is the Infinium and no mistake about it.

Depth / Sensitivity

Operated at bare thresholds the TDI Pro is a noticeably deeperseeking and more sensitive unit. The Infinium’s depth / sens is improved by adjusting the threshold control up to 6ish or slightly more and adjusting headphone volume to preference. With this adjustment to Infinium…I see little or no difference between these units regarding depth / sensitivity over a variety of targets buried at variable depths in my testplot. There is some variability between different types and sizes of coils of course…we see that large coils tend to be deeperseeking on larger targets and less sensitive to shallower small stuff and vice-versa for small coils. Mono coils give better depth / sens results compared to similar size DD coils here.

With that said, lets look at low conductive target responses presented in the chart below. The majority of silver ores are low conductive. Keep in mind these depths do not represent the full capability of these units. Solid lead “nuggets” have been added to my testplot since posting the TDI Pro report. Using lead “nuggets” instead of gold or silver nuggets, the fact that they’re freshly buried, and local EMI conditions… all contrive to reduce detection depth compared to naturally settled gold or silver nuggets in the field. But they do work just fine for relative side-by-side depth comparisons between units. For this comparison, Infinium threshold is set to slightly above “6”… at zero discrimination, with the GB locked. The TDI Pro is set to proper ground balance at GB9, maximum gain, and a bare threshold. The chart designations indicate Weak, Fair, and Good signal responses.

I tend to compare the 8” Infinium round mono to the Razorback 5 X 10” elliptical mono, and the Infinium 14” elliptical mono to the 12” DF round stock coil because these are comparable sizes and seem to give the best results overall. I think we can agree that the results are fairly close…the variances are likely due to the coils tested. I see no advantage either way on these low conductive targets.

​

Lets look at the next substantial group of silver ores…the higher conductives in the chart below… a comparison between an Infinium 14” mono and TDI Pro 12” DF coil. Compare the red TDI Pro depths at GB9 to Infinium’s depth results at a threshold setting T = 6. The TDI Pro test results indicate that the pulltab to screwcap conductive range is more susceptible to depth loss compared to Infinium with both units properly ground-balanced here. Based on these results, I prefer the Infinium for this application.

​

Other Consdiderations

The Infinium is simple to operate, is weatherproof, and uses readily available “AA” batteries…especially handy for extended backpacking trips. The TDI Pro compared to Infinium at a bare threshold is more sensitive and deeperseeking. It is more flexible as to how it can be used, has a sturdier stem, is lighter on my arm, and has a much better coil selection. For comparatively small, mostly low conductive gold or even coin hunting where separating large iron is much less of an issue… the TDI Pro would be my preference. But…I wouldn’t hesitate to use the Infinium with the 8” mono coil and increased threshold setting. That was a good question and thanks…best of luck with your trip this season.

Jim.

 

[63bkpkr]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Jim,
Very nice synopsis and thank you for putting it together. Since we are having winter now in NorCal and with the upset at Hefty's claim and with my having had an interview on the 14th parts of my summer plan are out of kilter and will not be approachable till a few things settle out, mostly the job. I would love to go out and find 22 lbs of gold as that would solve all of my financial dilemas but then a steady paycheck would lessen the overall strain in my life and leave me time on a few weekends to head into the hills with a more manageable pack load. So with time on my hands to think and having nearly completed my taxes I allowed my mind to wander of into what if's and hence my question to you as the TDI's have been a curiosity in the back of my mind for awhile. I really have not learned my GMT so I've no true need for another machine and my resources are not there either but I like to be prepared to do things and that means the research and questions need to be out of the way first.

Due to having "a season" before starting high banking I will not be at that till the end of May. And having huge amounts of precipitation dropping from the skies requires restraint from my cautious side before venturing into mother nature's at times provacative world. It is oh so obvious to me that it is no time to be out in the mountains as for example yesterday afternoon the CFS on the river I frequent was about 4500, up from 200 1.5 weeks ago. This morning it was approaching 10,000 and this evening it approaches 20,000 cfs. My mind swirls at the thought of what is happening to the hillsides as this is just a torent of water boiling off the mountains! Ah, but once the water settles down, oh my, there are possibilities that the content of the hillsides have been modified.

Again thank you for the marvelous answer to my question.................63bkpkr

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

Re: White's TDI Pro in Silver Country [including Infinium Comparison]

Herb...thanks again for asking a very good question. It seems likely that a lot of hobbyists would have the same question but possibly they're reluctant to ask it.

I certainly hope the job interview turns out well for you. But if not...well...more time for gold hunting and enjoying the great outdoors. At our age there is no time like the present. The trip last summer that you posted on this forum was a "dream" trip that many of us would like to emulate...better yet that you should get to experience something similar again this season...

Jim.

 

[63bkpkr]

Hi Jim,
Check out my post on Lanny's "Metal Detecting Bedrock" thread. I've a suspicion that I've a lot more trips to plan as well as go on. I've been interested in wireless headphones but there were a few kinks to them I did not like: fixed in place rechargeable battery with short use cycle, the fact the Avios were only available on ebay and some are used. So I kept looking and found a TDK set that uses AAA batteries in the headset as well as the transmitter, they fold up small and I should have a pair of them in my hands later this week. I'm hopeful they will work well with my detectors! The frame/legs from Keene for the modification to my A52 to a high banker came in and I've found a metal shop to make the end dam for me so by the end of May it will be ready.

The job, I believe it will happen though I've been on pins and needles ever since they asked me to submit references and have a background check run. It would really be nice if that would finalize this week.

Seems like there is always something to do....Herb

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

Herb...it looks like you are about ready for the new season. When you get your highbanker ready, maybe you could post a photo. I'd like to see what you've done.

Yep...had a good look at Lanny's incredible thread...great discussion and beautiful photos. What will be... will be Herb...if they should pass you over for this job its their loss, and you get to spend more time goldhunting down in that canyon... but lets hope the job prospect works out for you. Let us know how it pans out...

Dad used to say he was so busy in retirement he didn't know how he found the time for his job.

BTW...regarding your post above re: which PI unit...I presumed you referred to either the TDI Pro or Infinium discussed in this article. But... if I intended to do some serious goldhunting I would look at the Minelab PI units and compare. I have not used them for this application...dealing with elongated or large iron is important here and the Infinium / TDI Pro do that as well as can be expected from a PI unit... but reports indicate the ML PI units are significantly deeperseeking without question.

Jim.

 

[63bkpkr]

Hi Jim,
Thank you for the follow up! I like your fathers comment!! The final high banker photo will come later in April but it will come. I've just returned all the prospecting gear to storage in preparation for the move that I am heading into as I need to be closer to work. I've some additional "possibilities" underway concerning one of my technology inventions, medical device related, so even more of my attention is being diverted from prospecting. But then if the possibility were to turn into reality my whole life will change for the better, we will see what the good lord has in mind.


However, possibilities aside, I am Ready for detecting this year with new wireless TDK WR700 headpones based on something called "Kleer Technology" and they work Great on the GMT and everything else! I've some 'old spots' in mind that I've not visited in many years so when I have the chance I will just take a little ride for some fun. Looks like winter here will all come late, extending the spring thaw into late June or early July like last year but we have to work with what we have and not grump about what we would like to have because it just is what it is. I have to smile at all the possibilities in front of me and give thanks for them, it is a great life we all have!

Have fun and may your shovel get stuck in the largest hunk of silver you or anyone else has ever seen. Herb

 

[Jim Hemmingway]

You bet Herb!! We do need to be thankful for what we have. We're certainly much better off than many souls in this ol' world.

Your wireless headphone are an important contribution to this forum. Many of us oldtimers are not all that technically inclined, so thank goodness you are thinking about such improvements. Next time I'm in town I intend to take my detector into the electronics place, used to be called "Radio Shack" although I'm not sure what its called now, and see about some wireless headphones too. Many thanks for this contribution Herb...many of us stand to benefit from your willingness to share you successful ideas. Good luck with the new job!!

Jim.