Older Gold Detectors....

[Hard Prospector]

Now for the past year or so I haven't spent much time around here (in this forum) as I've been other places and its been fine only stopping by for a quick peek occasionally. Then I noticed a great thread on Goldmasters and found myself taking interest and having a good time in the discussion. Then a thought occurred to me that even though most discussions on other sites revolve around the newest gold detectors, my own machines are all 5-20 years old; TDI, GMT, GB2, GB Pro etc. Once more I haven't bought a new machine in several years for one simple fact; They still produce enough gold for me to where I can't justify selling it for half of what I paid.
Now everyone has their own "program" and way of looking at things but this is how I see it. Buy the most modern gold machine you can afford for what you plan on doing with it. If money is tight, the older gold detectors should be considered a cost effective option for most all around nugget shooting/prospecting needs. Plus whatever you pick up used, there's bound to be someone around here willing to get you going in the right direction.
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[meMiner]

You are correct sir. Some of the older VLF models are quite effective. The technology has changed up a bit, but the basics are still the same. Some great deals are to be had on used detectors, but be wary of knockoffs which look the same but are junk. The only caveat, for those who spend a great deal of time chasing the illusive nuggets, is do you want to wonder if you missed something small, deep or hiding amongst junk or mineralization that a more recent or expensive machine potentially might have found?

 

[Hard Prospector]

If nugget shooting is your only prospecting game and you have a passion for it, then detector up grades are a constant must. This is mainly so because most of the well known nugget patches have been pounded. A new twist in technology can breath new life into plowed through ground and make it produce a bit more. Now if your only interest is going through sluice or drywasher cobbles, detecting stretches of exposed bedrock in dry creek beds or just swinging over desert pavement hoping to get lucky....there are many good machines going back over the last 20 years up to the task.
I know of a guy who found a 3 gram nugget last month near Quartzite just going through his drywasher tailings. His detector; an "original gold bug"

 

[Lanny in AB]

If nugget shooting is your only prospecting game and you have a passion for it, then detector up grades are a constant must. This is mainly so because most of the well known nugget patches have been pounded. A new twist in technology can breath new life into plowed through ground and make it produce a bit more. Now if your only interest is going through sluice or drywasher cobbles, detecting stretches of exposed bedrock in dry creek beds or just swinging over desert pavement hoping to get lucky....there are many good machines going back over the last 20 years up to the task.
I know of a guy who found a 3 gram nugget last month near Quartzite just going through his drywasher tailings. His detector; an "original gold bug"

Nothing wrong with what works, as it will continue to work. For example, the '49 Chevy truck I used to have. It worked, it got me around, it did the job it was designed to do, but it had zero options and comfort wasn't an option either.

Smart detector companies upgrade for things like options and comfort, whereas the other companies that refuse to listen to the prospectors and nugget shooters will go the way of the dinosaur. So, less or no options on detectors still works, but man, options and comfort are nice too.

All the best,

Lanny

 

[shadowulf]

A couple nugget hunters I know probably put it best. One uses a gold bug 2, the other a gold master 4b. Neither one says the other machine is better, but neither would rake a tailings pile without one. "and until they make one that can pick a grain (of gold) out of a pile of black sand without me, I'll keep using it"

 

[Gold Itch]

Now for the past year or so I haven't spent much time around here (in this forum) as I've been other places and its been fine only stopping by for a quick peek occasionally. Then I noticed a great thread on Goldmasters and found myself taking interest and having a good time in the discussion. Then a thought occurred to me that even though most discussions on other sites revolve around the newest gold detectors, my own machines are all 5-20 years old; TDI, GMT, GB2, GB Pro etc. Once more I haven't bought a new machine in several years for one simple fact; They still produce enough gold for me to where I can't justify selling it for half of what I paid.
Now everyone has their own "program" and way of looking at things but this is how I see it. Buy the most modern gold machine you can afford for what you plan on doing with it. If money is tight, the older gold detectors should be considered a cost effective option for most all around nugget shooting/prospecting needs. Plus whatever you pick up used, there's bound to be someone around here willing to get you going in the right direction.
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The Older machines can still hold their own with all the new machines for a simple reason, The newer models only have a few extra features that are nice to have but not Truly needed, These new machines do not offer anymore depth, they just allow you to personalize the machine to your liking, IE Volume control, "well" that's easily fixed buy a set of nugget busters or Grey Ghosts or Whites own Pro Stars.

People always want more power,, So Take the GMT as you turn up the Gain it boosts the original signal by 1x, 2x, 4x, 8, and 16x, Now you also have a boost Toggle Switch which Boosts that signal by 4 so with that your 16x Boosted signal now becomes Boosted to 64x the original signal strength, Add to that the Coil I posted else where here then you have a lot of power in reserve which you don't have to run it flat out because if you run the machine so it is stable and then use your Boost function as needed that lets you keep your mind on the game, The Laws of physics dictate how deep a VLF/Mid frequency detector can go not Detector Companies,

Some of you have seen how small the targets my GMT can see with the right coil setup, The newer machines are nice But if you own a Gold Bug II or a GMT or any of the Older Goldmasters then you are not missing much, Apart from the Cold Shoulder from the Mrs if you go and Buy another Detector, all other things are equal,

Good Luck,, John.

 

[gollum]

Hard Prospector,

What nobody has mentioned so far is that the biggest difference between the older VLF Detectors and the new ones is how they handle ground and atmospheric variations.

While VLF Transmission and Reception is a simple thing, there are a bunch of variables that the older detectors had no way to handle. You live in SoCal, and there are a million places to nugget hunt here. Many of the places to hunt in the desert have ground that is highly problematic to older analog VLF detectors. New detectors with digital circuitry, tell the detector how to act when it encounters different types of ground or RF Interference. The old analog detectors would just scream and scream at you, until you turn down gain to almost zero. Now its ground balanced, but it is so r3tard3d, you may only get an inch or two in depth.

If you know exactly what type of ground you will be encountering where you want to hunt, you can plan for a specific type of detector. If the ground is easy, and there isn't any RF Interference, an older analog gold machine would be fine. I had an old White's GM4B as a backup to my Minelab Gold Machine. If the ground is hot and nasty (like in Australia and The Mojave), an older analog machine will be almost useless. A modern detector can minimize or filter rf signals and bad ground.

Since you already have an older detector, I advise taking it to where you plan on using it and try it out. If you have to keep the Sensitivity at 1 to 3 to keep your detector from screaming at you, then you likely need something more modern.

Good Luck - Mike

 

[beekbuster]

even with the new detectors, the conditions that affect an older model affects a new one too, you just cant hear it. take a wet coil for example. gmz goes crazy after the water gets in the coil cover, fors gold is smooth as glass, but depth and sensitivity goes down, just my opinion.

 

[Hard Prospector]

Hard Prospector,

What nobody has mentioned so far is that the biggest difference between the older VLF Detectors and the new ones is how they handle ground and atmospheric variations.

While VLF Transmission and Reception is a simple thing, there are a bunch of variables that the older detectors had no way to handle. You live in SoCal, and there are a million places to nugget hunt here. Many of the places to hunt in the desert have ground that is highly problematic to older analog VLF detectors. New detectors with digital circuitry, tell the detector how to act when it encounters different types of ground or RF Interference. The old analog detectors would just scream and scream at you, until you turn down gain to almost zero. Now its ground balanced, but it is so r3tard3d, you may only get an inch or two in depth.

If you know exactly what type of ground you will be encountering where you want to hunt, you can plan for a specific type of detector. If the ground is easy, and there isn't any RF Interference, an older analog gold machine would be fine. I had an old White's GM4B as a backup to my Minelab Gold Machine. If the ground is hot and nasty (like in Australia and The Mojave), an older analog machine will be almost useless. A modern detector can minimize or filter rf signals and bad ground.

Since you already have an older detector, I advise taking it to where you plan on using it and try it out. If you have to keep the Sensitivity at 1 to 3 to keep your detector from screaming at you, then you likely need something more modern.

Good Luck - Mike

Very well put Mike....
I guess I'm just a little pissed off and bitter that I've found more gold drywashing this last winter than in the plowed thru and exhausted nugget patches I keep on pounding. I suppose I need to rethink my mining "program" for the future.

Yet another thought occurred to me recently....... it's too bad that all of the detectors I own won't appreciate in value like my guns have.

 

[Gold Itch]

I could of listed that and a lot more, No Need to hog the Limelight, lol

john

 

[gollum]

Thanks. But its not JUST old vs new detectors. It's also pricing. You can get a more modern detector that still has all the problems of using an older one. A $100 Bounty Hunter will not have the same Ground Handling Abilities as a $900 X-Terra 705.

Mike

 

[Gold Itch]

The other thing to remember is once you get in to a certain class/price range of detectors whether they are older or the latest thing there is very little in it when it comes to performance, The MXTs and the GMT are 16 years old and they started to design them back in 1998 but even to this day they are a force to be reckoned with and the Older Goldmasters are still going to give anything new a run for the money, Most of what we read is more about snobbery and having the latest and Greatest.

Give me a 57 Chevy or a 55 Caddy any day, Even my Guitars are Reissue's of the Rockabilly RocknRoll era and I have searched for them since 1979 and Nothing has that Sound or the nostalgia or the Look,

john

 

[gollum]

The other thing to remember is once you get in to a certain class/price range of detectors whether they are older or the latest thing there is very little in it when it comes to performance, The MXTs and the GMT are 16 years old and they started to design them back in 1998 but even to this day they are a force to be reckoned with and the Older Goldmasters are still going to give anything new a run for the money, Most of what we read is more about snobbery and having the latest and Greatest.

Give me a 57 Chevy or a 55 Caddy any day, Even my Guitars are Reissue's of the Rockabilly RocknRoll era and I have search for them since 1979 and Nothing has that Sound or the nostalgia or the Look,

john

John,

MOST is not about snobbery or fanboys. Mostly, its true. Older detectors just aren't able to handle the varying ground and atmospheric conditions like a newer model detector can. When something is analog, you would have to design something the size of a refrigerator that could handle all possible variations of ground and atmospheric conditions. By going digital, you can program for just about any situation with a few lines of code on a chip.

Mike

 

[Gold Itch]

True but machines like the GMT are Digital and they cope well with bad ground and by changing the coil they become Super hot on small Gold, A lot of the problems stems from the fact some of these detector company's are phasing out the coils that fit the older machines, I have seen 3 coils vanish in the past month alone, The main trouble with one or two of the mainstream company's it they make what they want and Not what the Consumers ask for and to me that says Industrial Suicide

The end result is the major players will become like classic cars, And company's like Nokta/Makro will take 80% of the markets from the Dynasaurs of yesterday.

 

[gollum]

True but machines like the GMT are Digital and they cope well with bad ground and by changing the coil they become Super hot on small Gold, A lot of the problems stems from the fact some of these detector company's are phasing out the coils that fit the older machines, I have seen 3 coils vanish in the past month alone, The main trouble with one or two of the mainstream company's it they make what they want and Not what the Consumers ask for and to me that says Industrial Suicide

The end result is the major players will become like classic cars, And company's like Nokta/Makro will take 80% of the markets from the Dynasaurs of yesterday.

Just like so many people said about Minelab and their $10,000 GPX. "They are pricing it too high. They won't sell." They seem to be doing alright last I checked. Not too well known companies that have a record of manufacturing fantasy devices (a'la' OKM and NOKTA) will NEVER take over companies like Minelab or White's. Could they get a jump on Garrett or First Texas? Maybe, if they get complacent.

I have noticed that in the metal detector world, many (not all) people want everything on every detector, but don't understand why it would cost more. Most people don't understand how long and how much research and development takes/costs. For companies like Minelab to stay on top, they have to continually develop new technologies (like Zero Voltage Transmission). Paying a team of Electrical and Mechanical Engineers to develop a new technology like that for several years is not cheap or easy.

Mike

 

[Gold Itch]

Whites just don't listen, for 16 years people have been asking for manual Ground Balance and their last 4 machines have been a joke, and the had the chance to fit manual GB on e the MXT but the management said NO because it had too many Push pads and yet they stick 7 or 8 on the MXS and STILL no manual GB,

Serves them right if people like Nokta/Makro take then down a Peg or two because at leased they listen.

 

[Hard Prospector]

In the face of over-seas competition, I think the days of US "mom n' pop" detector companies are numbered. I feel that merger (or acquisition?) will likely have to take place between the four that are left for an American detector company to remain innovative and competitive in the near future.

Now what this prospector needs is a detector that can find values in gold ore specimens marbled in sulfides and preferably (a lot!) cheaper than a XRF gun.

 

[Gold Itch]

Don't get me wrong I love whites machines and use nothing else but the last four machines are more like Toys and the MXS is an Embarrassment and the way they have handled the whole affair is despicable and their Videos are nothing but Lies,

Until they listen I believe that we have had the best of whites and it is all down hill from now, on, I can't complain about the quality because there isn't any.

 

[Hard Prospector]

Don't get me wrong I love whites machines and use nothing else but the last four machines are more like Toys and the MXS is an Embarrassment and the way they have handled the whole affair is despicable and their Videos are nothing but Lies,

Until they listen I believe that we have had the best of whites and it is all down hill from now, on, I complain about the quality because there isn't any.

Agreed....and I have a bunch of White's machines as well but the company may be is in the danger zone and on life support.

 

[Gold Itch]

Just like so many people said about Minelab and their $10,000 GPX. "They are pricing it too high. They won't sell." They seem to be doing alright last I checked. Not too well known companies that have a record of manufacturing fantasy devices (a'la' OKM and NOKTA) will NEVER take over companies like Minelab or White's. Could they get a jump on Garrett or First Texas? Maybe, if they get complacent.

I have noticed that in the metal detector world, many (not all) people want everything on every detector, but don't understand why it would cost more. Most people don't understand how long and how much research and development takes/costs. For companies like Minelab to stay on top, they have to continually develop new technologies (like Zero Voltage Transmission). Paying a team of Electrical and Mechanical Engineers to develop a new technology like that for several years is not cheap or easy.

Mike

Nokta / Makro have enlisted the 3 best field Testers in the world, and These new range of detectors are Blitzing the VLF prospecting market and they are that good that all 3 of them use Nokta / Makro machines as their main VLF units and one of them is even an agent/Dealer for them and some have even go as far as selling their US made Machines, When such people of that Calibre do some thing like that it is time to man the Life Boats.

I still have my whites machines but I will be buying Nokta /Makro machines because they Build what we ask for not what they want to Build, Minelab are safe for now with the Birth of the GPZ and Fischer have a few plans in motion, But whites are going to end up like Tesoro and only die hards like I Was will buy them, Tesoro were one of the leaders but like whites are doing now Tesoro fell in to the trap of rehashing old technology but Minelab kept evolving, whites and Tesoro are Blinded by their past success instead of looking to the future and like all Dynasaurs they will become Oil.