Good Plan, Bad Plan?

[Lucky Eddie]

So I have been contemplating building a quad bike 'project', (or 2 maybe) set up specifically for detecting gold... but not the way most do it!.

I am thinking outside the square a little about searching for gibba plain gold, and metallic meteorites - at the same time, by towing a large skid mounted coil - and having a rare earth neodymium magnetic bar mounted way out front of th bike near ground level to pick up any scrap metal onthe serface or metallic meteors, before the coil comes along behind and passes over the area.

For anyone not familiar with our gibba plains..

They AREN't your typical gold country, being flat featureless plains of uniformly small stones... as far as they eye can see.

They are often unbearably hot, an due to the sheer size and uniformity metal detectorists tend not to even try to detect them coz there's no way to know where to start even - they are just so vast flat and featureless!.

Occasionally people stumble upon a sunbaker nugget on gibba plains! They are there... but the acreage needing to be covered to find one 9or a patch) puts most people off even trying.

My "master plan" is to maybe detect these plains at night when the suns gone down and the flies gone to bed.

Maybe set out a 10 - 20 acre plot by pegging the 4 corners with star pickets and glow in the dark cyalume sticks, so I can see the corners of the area i wish work in the dark, and then just cover it all with a 4wd quad bike with low range - as if I was plowing a paddock on my old tractor, drag a chain on a long rope off the rear of the towed coil skid to mark where I have been (or set up a spring loaded scratch stick to leave a line where I have already covered to follow as my furrow mark.

Have the GPS to push way points any time a signal is heard and stop and drive in a 3/8th metal rod with flag on it where signals are heard, then continue on and come back in the early hours when its cool and dig all the pegged signals.

So that's my rough plan, peg another 10 or 20 acres next to the first one if anythings found, and repeat, rinse & repeat.

I figure maybe I could tow a quite large coil this way for even better ground depth penetration.

I know of s similar system used on our extensive salt lakes to cover them at night when they are dry enough with a solid enough crust not to sink the quad & occasionally they produce some OK results.

I suspect most detectorists / prospectors like to "read the lay of the land, and the hills, creeks etc to track down their mother loads, and often I think the flat featureless gibba plain country, defeats them before they start, with the thought of the absolute mind numbing boredom such featureless country promises - more than anything.

Me, I am a weird sort, who can entertain his brain all day long if necessary, solving the various problems of the world, disproving Einsteins special theory of relativity etc, as I go round in ever decreasing circles plowing a paddock, just like the famed extinct oozalum bird that eventually disappeared up its own clakka hole!

Anyone had any experience detecting this sort of country?

A quad set up for gibba country would be useless detecting anywhere with small hills or bushes, gullies etc, its sort of a specific setup I guess..

I am a little curious what brand make model of quad to get that would be happy just idling along at walking speed for hours and hours on end eliminating any non productive country in fairly hot (desert) conditions?

I am guessing water cooled 4 stroke would be better than air cooled for this type of work, as there's not a lot of air flow to run a hot 2 stoke air cooled bike when operating at low rpms and speed for long period in dry heat of a desert.

Hoping for something that's ultra reliable... Honda maybe?

Keen to hear anyones thoughts, waste of time and fuel for what little you can recover?

I was thinking if I stuck at it I might be able to make sense of anything found with analysis of the GPS way points that might eventually point me to a un-found / un-worked patch of nuggets maybe?

Maybe I am dreaming? Would gibba plains maybe have too many hot rocks to make the plan viable?

Anyone bin there 'n done that, and got the T shirt and stubby holder to prove it?

No point, spending a small fortune on a fundamentally flawed plan from the outset.

TIA if anyone can share any experience.

 

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[Hoser John]

I've seen it done out in the Randsburg/Coolgardie district in the desert by folks from Oregon. Keeping the mag far enough from the steel steed, and that strong magnet, is imperative as some are very sensitive. That nugget is rather small for detection as units I've seen needed about a half dollar size to go off. That is a great nugget, wish it were me finding it. Tons a au 2 u 2-John

 

[Rege-PA]

I think you have a great plan and some interesting concepts. The magnet bar is a good idea to get rid of some nuisance targets and maybe pick up a meteorite, it would have to be able to be cleaned easily or be self cleaning. Mounting it in front may cause problems, seems it would glide over obstacles easier being pulled.
Setting up a grid is important but only after you have made that initial find, then I would flog the area and see if there is a pattern to the finds.
I too plan on using a system similar to yours and want to share ideas.

 

[Rob in KS]

I've done some of those things, but on Kansas wheat fields. They too are flat and featureless. I didn't have a quad though. I built a 3 foot coil on wheels, I've been through some of the same things you're thinking of. I've used GPS, dragging a stick,ropes to mark areas, flags to mark hits. I've even bolted hard drive magnets to a board. Boy did I pick up a lot of rust.

Most of what I found was crap, pieces of farm equipment, nails, screws, a wrench, and a couple of tiny "maybe" meteorites.

 

[Lucky Eddie]

Thanks heaps guys - some good suggestions there.

Yes having the strong neodymium magnets / bar attached to the same vehicle that drags the coil worries me a bit coz, I don't know if it would interfere with the detector.

Also I guess whats worrying me is if hot rocks in the gibba country MIGHT make it impossible to detect successfully with this method?.

I am hoping that because the gibba country in the desert has never been farmed, that other than a few spent bullets, the odd shoe tacks etc there SHOULDN'T be a lot of metal from human activity out there unless its part of SKYLAB when it crashed or of course metal meteorite pieces.

I am sure I will be surprised at how many old tin cans etc the original ol prospectors dropped...over the last century.

Gibba country is almost like the surface photos you see of Mars - pretty inhospitable so it was never used for anything in the past like grazing even.

It does seem to defeat a lot of people just with its huge expanses and lack of features to orient yourself.

These days with GPS it shouldn't be too hard to master navigation on it, I am used to nav on the featureless ocean driving by chart plotter and lat long numbers, so the featureless aspect of gibba plains doesn't phase me much.

I guess what I am wondering silently (to myself) is that IF at some past point in millennia there ever was any type of hills or mountains there which have eroded away to just the flat plains now, then whatever gold they contained should hopefully just worked its way downwards eventually to flat ground level.... with the wind erosion that's taken all the sand away and just left those pebble patch expanses. So in my "theory" if I can locate a small nugget, there should by rights, hopefully be others in a patch around it hopefully. A guy can dream I guess.

Cheers

 

[NHBandit]

Where is this located ? I've never heard of "gibba" and apparently Google hasn't either...

 

[Lucky Eddie]

Gibba plains are a flat featureless plains in Western Australia's inland goldfields areas. The google thing is some refer to them as "gibber" plains most likely so a different spelling of the same thing.

I think Gibba is an indigenous name for the small stones that litter the place as you see in the pictures.

Gibber

This link above gives a brief description of the process by which these stony flat plains were apparently formed.

Strangely the stones are pretty much seemingly all of a relatively uniform size.

Hit up a search on Google Images for "gibba plains" - and you will see many examples. Its a common term for people down under who travel thru these types of stony deserts.

They are usually quite safe to drive across in even normal 2wd saloon type vehicles in dry conditions.

There is some interesting reading and photos also at this link.

Oodnadatta Track: Gibber Plains / Stony Country, South Australia - Images of Australia

Such uniformly flat ground to me seems to suggest an opportunity to develop a way to find those needle in a haystack small nuggets that occasionally are to be found sun baking on the surface by the odd lucky prospector. I am guessing that if there are small surface sun-bakers then its possible there are others below the surface maybe.

Its not unknown for example to find gold nuggets on our large flat dry inland salt lakes!.

Salt Lake Metal Detecting

I know prospectors tend to like to "read the lay of the land" and try to predict where nuggets will have traveled down hill with rain water and floods etc in creek lines and ledges below ridges, benches between creek confluences and so on.

The thing is I think a lot of the Salt lakes until recently defeated prospectors for mush the same reasons that the flat gibba plains probably do!.

They are so large flat and featureless as to defeat many detector operators before they start, its seemingly "impossible" to make any sort of a dent on these vast plains with chaining off an area on foot... I have come to the realization that I think it would require methodical mechanized efforts like quad bikes etc to make any sort of a dent on just one plain let alone many.

The sometimes oppressive heat glare and lack of features and water just deters a lot of people from even stopping to prospect flat gibba plains - most folks drive past them on the way to goldfields with more features that they are more familiar with detecting methods often on foot.

Using quads in that sort of undulating vegetated country can be difficult (Other than as transport out & back from maybe a nicer campsite with some stunted shade trees - to a prospective area to hunt gold nuggets).

Things like sleds etc tend to hit big rocks and small shrubs / dead fallen timber and you are forever repairing your sled, from hitting obstacles. Plus the vegetation and obstacles / rocks prevent you from actually covering every square inch - which wouldn't be an issue on a flat gibba plain.

I have half expected one of the Aussie detector operators to chime in by now and tell my why this idea won't work!

I just a wondering if I will invest say $20K+ into a pair of quads and detectors coils, rare earth magnet bars etc - only to find out the idea sucks and isn't practicable due to hot rocks or other considerations?.

If the heat and flies during the day are an issue then do the detecting at night via the headlights on the quad, or of an early morning and late afternoon, & employ a ROPS type roll over bar with a tube frame & plywood cover for shade from overhead sun!.

I can think of a lot of ways to make it more bearable, but maybe also not everyone is temperamentally suited to methodically eliminating larger areas in the same way not everyone is suited to plowing a 1000 acre paddock all night in order to get a crop in on time while the grounds warm and wet to suit germination.

But there are people do it every year all their lives and seem to cope...

I am trying to work out why its a bad idea before I invest too much effort and $$ expense into proving the theory in case some grasshopper has already walked this particular rice paper trail ahead of me is all!

 

[Hoser John]

WOW what a tough looking area to detect. kudos-John

 

[Pennies from heaven]

What a great idea ! It seems to me it may well be fairly uncharted land, since it is so flat/rocky/dry/hot/fly-town !
So your chances seem good to me. The shademobile ( like the batmobile ! ) could help you wait out the heat of the day so you could put in early morning and evening into night shifts. Praying you see immediate results to reward your thinking outside the box-ness ! Buena suerte and have more than enough agua on hand!!

 

[arizau]

I would probably put wheels on the corners rather than just hauling a skid. In an old tv show called the Meteorite Men a similar setup was used with some success if I recall correctly. If you can do it with what you have or with little investment then I say go for it.

Have fun and good luck.

PS: I like the idea for the magnet but I can't imagine where you can get one as wide as a quad if that is what you have in mind.

 

[Lucky Eddie]

I was thinking taht to get started i need the quad bike first. So my first step was to advertise my restored Yamaha Virago, and turn the ~$5K I have 'invested" (that's a lousy word for anything associated with motorbikes or cars - since they are depreciating assets) into a good deposit on a used quad bike - that I can go thru every nut and bolt and make it reliable and like new again as a starting point.
Unfortunately in this economy no one seems to want it yet, being ~24 years old - even tho I spent about that just on new parts for it from USA, as a restoration project (never mind the hundreds of hours of free labor that went into it).
Next year it becomes a vintage at 25 years old - maybe then interest will pick up?.
Seems no point out laying about that much again into a used quad while I have that much tied up in a 2 wheeled resto motorbike bike that I am not riding!.

Providing I can sell this thing at some point, i can get started on the quad bike / detecting project.
I already have a good F250 truck (and boat) for getting out to the goldfields to prospect/detect.

Also have the 10ft x 5ft trailer capable of taking a couple quad bikes as well.

So really its just about re organizing some toys, to get to a position where I have enough gear to go do this...
Rome wasn't built in a day - I guess the Gold will still be there by the time i do get all my ducks in a row...eventually!
I still of course have to also acquire at least one Minelabs GPX 7000 detector as well!
You need capital and lots of it to do this properly and THEN you need to be able also to cover operating expenses while your out there until you do start finding some Gold to help pay for all (OK some of) the operating costs!
Unfortunately winter is fast disappearing now that we are official into spring here so the demand for firewood that helps finance some of these toys is dropping off thru the spring & summer months now...so it MIGHT well be next winter before I can make much headway... unless of course I win lottery between now and then (or take up robbing banks as a hobby).
The reward of patience, is patience I am told!.
In truth this is one of life's lessons that defeats me time and again.

 

[Lucky Eddie]

With the suggestion of wheels at all 4 corners of the skid, I have to admit that i like the idea a LOT, from a longevity point of view.

The biggest issue I have is that fr it to roll over the ground you need ground clearance and that extra height is less depth your penetrating with your coil.
Also
Its hard to get wheels, tyres, axles, etc that have absolutely zero metal in them to interfere with the coil. Inner tubes have a brass valve insert as do tubeless rims.
Often axles are metal or the wheels have metal bearings, etc. Tyres themselves can have metal belts in them. The bead of the tyre frequently has a metal wire hoop in it.
trying to find a wheel that will stand up to the abuse and not have a single metal component to interfere with the detecting coil si the big difficulty that I have been trying to get around.

If there's a off the shelf wheel/tyre combo that is all plastic rubber etc and no metal at all that's available off the shelf I am all ears - believe me!

Silicone Gel filled tyres might get rid of the need for metal valve stems and fittings... but finding an non metal axle that will stand up to wear with no metal bearings?

Anyone have any ideas what i could use?

 

[Rob in KS]

Since you're going to be running a large coil, don't worry about loosing a few inches. I used 14" lawnmower wheels, offset on a stub so the coil is 4" above the ground. Even though the wheels had metal bearings, it doesn't seem to effect the coil since they are stationary in relation to the coil. I'm using a PI in motion mode, if I stop over a target the signal fades.

 

[meMiner]

Pretty cool ideas. My first thought is I would move the magnets to the front of the quad. That way, no issue from the magnets or the copious junk they will pick up. Also, before you invest into a quad & detector, I would suggest a cheaper trial to ensure your ideas will work for your application - - for example, use a cheaper detector with a large coil and pull it manually through the area and see if you are getting the results you expected.

 

[SD51]

I also like your ideas and concepts. Any chance you can do a scaled-down version of the large coil to first prove the concept, like a prototype?

Funny when you mentioned Skylab crashing in the outback in the late '70s. I remember at the time, the outback was the new gold rush area. I had read where people were purchasing metal detectors in hopes of finding a piece of Skylab and were getting frustrated because all they were finding was gold nuggets.

One story mentioned a newbie who couldn't get his detector to manually ground balance. Back then we had to hold the coil up high and slowly lower it to the ground. If the tone increased, you turned a 10-turn potentiometer in the "Decrease" direction and repeated the lowering of the coil until the tone didn't change. The newbie couldn't get the tone to stop increasing, and finally realized he was lowering the coil onto a giant gold nugget!

 

[Lucky Eddie]

don't worry about loosing a few inches.

It doesn't sound like much BUT - over say a 20 acre area gridded out - we are talking about NOT covering 10,000's of cubic meters of soil not being detected, due to those few inches above the ground of the coil due to the wheels.

It's probably smarter / more time and cost effective to have replacement fiberglass or conveyor belt rubber skid - that can wear out and just be replaced often & to cover more dirt to a greater depth for the time and fuel used is what I am thinking.

I've been trying to work out some sort of wheeled skid apparatus - but the whole "no metal components" thing ups the cost and difficulty factor 100 fold.

Half a dozen pre cut sheets of plywood for the skid that just get burnt at night for firewood when they are worn thru probably makes more sense is what I am thinking at the moment.

 

[Rob in KS]

I haven't had a problem with the metal in my wheels bearings. Yes, it probably distorts the field around the coil but when you can see a large target at 5 feet, why sweat the small stuff. I needed to be above the vegetation, you don't. I made mine so that if I flip it over I'm 9.5 inches above the surface. Just build it so your coil is 2" above the surface or what ever you need to clear any rocks. I went to a mower shop and got a couple of wheels for free (sister-in-law).

Another thing, you can pry out the metal bearings from the plastic wheels and make some sort of support.

This sure sounds like a fun project

I forgot to mention that my coil frame is built from 3/4" PVC pipe...because that's what I had on hand without spending any money.