Recreational Prospecting in the Silverfields of Northeastern Ontario

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Recreational Prospecting in the Silverfields
of Northeastern Ontario

Introduction

For casual or recreational prospecting enthusiasts with limited time to search for precious silver ores and nuggets each season, metal detecting abandoned minesite tailing disposal areas and former ore transport routes is undoubtedly the most productive strategy to increase the odds of recovering more valuable specimen grade silver as depicted below. Our preference is to select abandoned sites that will more likely produce detectable native silver based on past production numbers. You can detect these sites with the certain knowledge that highgrade silver was inadvertently discarded to the tailing disposal and nearby areas, sometimes in considerable quantity. The probability of successfully recovering such material is sharply improved compared to searching for outback silver float, obscure prospects, or low production sites.

Despite the reality that former high production areas have seen decades of detecting and collecting pressure, and considerable surface silver has been removed, associated silver minerals, mixed ores, and native silver are commonly recovered by hobbyists to this day. But larger specimen grade silver has become more difficult to find and nowadays most surface detectable silver is measured in ounces.

There is no doubt that more and larger material exists as initially deposited, waiting undiscovered just beyond the detection capabilities of most metal detectors, or otherwise is masked by abundant iron and other detectable minerals such as proliferate pyrrhotite at many sites. This is readily evident to those who have experienced detecting fresh surfaces resulting from mechanized bulk ore removal, or from trenching productive ground while systematically recovering all target signals.

2.8 LB AG SFBWBL17SPOT.JPG

The foregoing is not to suggest that the low production sites are necessarily undesirable areas to search. An obvious advantage is that low production sites or prospects see far less detecting pressure than do the more visible high production sites. It depends on how your objectives or goals are defined. If typically lower grade or mixed ore samples from such sites contain even small amounts of native silver, particularly with an attractive dendritic structure and background matrix, these will certainly produce readily marketable cuts or slabs.

To improve the likelihood of finding silver, it is important to be selective about sampling locations at any given site. We are looking for deposits by searching areas most likely to have experienced unintentional dumping of good material. That means areas where valuable silver was handled and transported. Look for indications of surface veins, shafts, and storage areas where silver was graded, moved, and sometimes inadvertently misplaced. There are many plainly visible field indications of former mine buildings, mill sites, abandoned trails and ore transport routes.

While quantities of silver were frequently discarded to tailing disposal areas, keep in mind that some highgrade silver was unknowingly included with waste rock for road and other construction projects. Hobbyists have detected large specimen grade silver that was occasionally lost to spills on steep embankments, washouts, or sharp bends along the transport routes of the time. More information on this subject can be viewed at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/canada/282315-electronic-prospecting-silver-country.html.

The photo immediately below depicts exposed bedrock on the outer fringe of a former mining camp that we revisited this past autumn. The next photo presents a few examples of small but good quality silver detected at this site in recent years. Most silver recoveries weighed less than one-half ozt, but it was fun MXT and F75 detecting because the signals were fairly abundant and mostly shallow for easy digging. Although small silver isnā€™t a priority, it is not easy to abandon patches that produce such good quality material in quantity.

COBALT LODE BEDROCK PROSPECT SF.JPG

Extensive information about abandoned gold and silver mines is available online, and many publications are available to prospective hobbyists. My personal favorites include a series entitled Rocks and Minerals for the Collector authored by Ann P. Sabrina, in association with the Geological Survey of Canada. These publications supply useful information pertaining to abandoned minesites throughout Canada. They provide road guides to accessible collecting locations, a brief history of a siteā€™s mining operations, normally include production numbers for more prominent minerals such as cobalt, lead, zinc, nickel, copper, silver and gold, and usually provide a comprehensive list of mineral occurrences for each site.

20161127_004654.jpg

With specimen grade silver becoming increasingly difficult to find, it is more important than ever to use metal detectors suitable to the application, to select coil type and size that are appropriate for site conditions, and to avoid using discrimination modes if at all possible. Most readers would take this as an axiom, but we do see inappropriate metal detector designs or excessively large coils used in this area where pyrrhotite and other detectable minerals, abundant iron waste, and miscellaneous modern trash masking silver is problematic at many sites. Rather than review it here, weā€™ve previously discussed the topic of suitable metal detecting gear for silver hunting in northeastern Ontario in considerable detail at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/canada/328287-electronic-prospecting-silver-country-part-2-a.html.

Below is a bit of plate silver detected with a Whiteā€™s MXT 300 in the motion all-metal prospecting mode. The prospecting modeā€™s iron probability, numerical target ID indicator, and ground phase readouts add a lot of interest and fun to rockhunting, but it doesnā€™t influence our target evaluation routine insofar as overburden must be removed to acquire a strong target signal. If there is any doubt about the target ID, it must be dug to learn what produced the signal. No treatment was required for this sample other than a quick buff with the rotary tool, followed by a soapy wash and rinse.

1.9 OZT NATIVE SILVER NUGGET SSFGRNYGDD18.JPG

Some Background Information for Prospective Hobbyists

Native silver ranging up to 95% purity, acanthite, pyrargyrite and proustite ruby silvers, stephanite, and other collectable silver minerals primarily occur in carbonate veins in association with gangue minerals such as quartz, chlorite, fluorite, barite, albite, hematite, magnetite and many other minerals normally related to relatively shallow epithermal deposits. The native silver in this area is intimately associated with major cobalt-nickel arsenide deposits that include collectibles such as safflorite, cobaltite, nickeline, and skutterudite. These minerals will also produce target signals, and their localized mineralizations are an added constituent inherent to the areaā€™s minesite substrates in addition to the usual variable strength magnetic susceptible iron minerals.

Attractively structured native silver in creamy white or other lighter-hued carbonates, or for example in association with other closely related silver minerals, notably for example acanthite and proustite, is highly valued by collectors. Structure refers to how the silver is formed, examples include massive or nuggety formations, plate, disseminate or particulate, sponge, highly crystalline, and various dendritic or branching patterns as depicted in the small example below. This sample was cleaned with a rotary tool silicon carbide bit, followed by a dish detergent wash and clean water rinse.

1.5 OZT DENDRITIC SILVER SF17PANYYGN.JPG

Silver ores and nuggets found in northeastern Ontarioā€™s silverfields share a similar target ID range to gold, a result of variations in silver purity, type of mineral inclusions, size, shape, structure, and the influence of ground conditions.

Ground conditions normally refer to magnetic susceptibilities associated with various types of iron mineralizations, other localized minerals as noted above, and to substrate type and moisture content. The prevalence of both conductive and non-conductive iron-mineralized hotrocks, the abundance and proximity of rusty manmade iron to silver targets, and the effects of recently disturbed ground resulting from recent mining activity such as mechanized bulk sampling operations, also significantly impact metal detecting for silver ores. In short, do not trust target ID except over strong, obviously non-ferrous target ID signals, and even then larger iron will usually read as a highly conductive non-ferrous target.

The photo below depicts a silver specimen found with a Fisher F75 metal detector. It was operated in the motion all-metal mode that features an enabled target ID while doing some exploratory trenching at a roadside accessible, former high production site. Serious exploration, sampling, and excavation are fundamental to consistent recovery of specimen grade material. Trenching, scraping surface material, or sinking test holes is not for anyone but more determined hobbyists because repetitive digging in rocky substrates is hard work and time consuming. But one way or another, consistently finding worthwhile silver nowadays translates into a lot of digging.

The example below was cleaned with a rotary tool silicon carbide tip followed by a detergent wash and rinse. The photo doesnā€™t do justice to it, for example you are hard-pressed to discern a quarter-inch silver vein protruding in front by almost an inch. Three-dimensional effects are almost impossible to achieve when shooting from directly in front of the sample.

6.5 LB NATIVE SILVER CALCITE SFYG19L.JPG

Searching Iron-Infested Abandoned Minesites with a VLF Unit

We revisited an area that produced multiple silver ores from a limited section of tailings that we later decided to excavate as pictured below. The initial diggings you see in the photo were eventually extended deeper and much further into the tailings because we continued to find silver. To cope with excessive iron trash, we used both a Fisher F75 and a Whiteā€™s MXT 300 equipped with 10ā€elliptical coils for routine checking of fresh surfaces. With a few exceptions, the silver recovered in this area has been mostly in the multiple ozt range, but has included some quality material as depicted immediately below the digsite photo.

We had randomly searched the general area in recent years and could pretty much anticipate what to expect. The substrate iron mineral magnetic susceptibilities are variably light to moderate over most tailings that to some extent exhibit surface oxidized ironā€¦ natureā€™s rust limoniteā€¦ and markedly more elevated over darker minerals such as diabase, but nothing more extreme. There is an overabundance of iron and other trash signals due to several dismantled buildings, a scattering of conductive pyrrhotite hotrocks that produce good signals on both VLF and PI units, and detectable nickeline and cobalt minerals.

These conditions make the MXTā€™s mid-operating 13.88 kHz frequency, target ID meter, discrimination modes, and particularly the motion all-metal prospecting mode with the iron probability, VDI and ground phase readouts a very good choice. The MXT is ideally suited to this application, and especially so because the most desirable targets weigh ounces and more. The available ultra high gain is not required to detect such material at depth, hence the unit can be operated with good stability in those environs and still be quite effective in the prospecting mode. Most currently available mid-range, prospecting-capable VLF units with different size and type coils available would be similarly appropriate for the search conditions as described.

COLEMAN DIGSITE #1 START-UP SFBT18YG.JPG

0.7 LB DENDRITIC SPECIMEN SF17GRNY1G.JPG

11.4 OZT SILVER CALCITE SF19BBE.JPG

It is a daunting task to search an area that produces countless iron and other trash signals, especially if you contemplate removing some of the large iron residing close to the surface to improve the odds of finding previously masked, occasionally larger silver at depth. Obviously one does not undertake this task unless reasonably confident that such silver is present, and that requires some knowledge about a specific site. But at the same time, we try to keep in mind that just one large specimen-grade silver ore makes all the hard work worthwhile.

As an alternative to the usual surface scanning in already pounded areas, that will keep you permanently on your knees if youā€™re intent on clearing away some of the large iron, we sometimes resort to exploratory trenching as illustrated in the above photo. Where possible, we prefer to trench on sloping ground, utilizing gravity to more easily move material and recover targets. Trenching allows us to scan to considerably greater depths where the probability of detecting silver sharply improves when on productive ground. All encountered target signals are investigated and removed, hence there are no worries about iron masking or otherwise overlooking good silver.

There is more to say about identifying sites that at least warrant some limited exploratory trenching or digging selective test holes, or even scraping away surface material, but that discussion will be reserved pending a follow-up article entitled Trenching and Metal Detecting for Native Silver. The specimen grade silver below is just one of many fine examples weā€™ve found over the years using the above technique.

3.8 LB AG CALCITE SFYG18LOG.JPG

Despite searching in tough iron-abundant areas, we still prefer to search in the motion all-metal mode where we can benefit from either target ID or its equivalent in the MXT prospecting mode without the depth loss that accompanies discrimination modes when slowly scanning over variable rocky surfaces. Some prefer the MXT relic mode as an option to get the depth benefit of an all-metal mode combined with discrimination capability, but the incessant cacophony of mixed mode honking tones over target-rich ground does not agree with meā€¦ a personal preference and nothing more. But frankly, in most prospecting scenarios discrimination modes in any format are not a good idea. We much prefer motion all-metal modes for improved depth and sensitivity to targets and for evaluating ground conditions, and we also prefer unimpeded target-sizing ability to better assess what is happening beneath the searchcoil.

When searching in a motion all-metal mode, over questionable target signals we frequently make use of the auto or fastgrab GB (ground balance) feature available on many modern VLF prospecting-capable detectors. The auto GB feature supplies us with additional information about a target that obviously requires some interpretation based on your detecting experience in these field conditions, and that information can be used in conjunction with target ID and target-sizing when evaluating suspect signals.

In this area for example, a few F75 autograb coil pumps over most rusted ironā€¦ a manmade maghemiteā€¦ that has leached into the immediate surrounding substrate normally lowers GB values from the high GB80s into the more conductive GB40s. This especially applies to small iron and other common items such as rail spikes and large nails. But occasional drill rods, tools, implements, and other larger iron may not react similarly or at all if located sufficiently close to the coil to produce a strong signal.

Non-conductive iron-mineralized positive hotrocks and our conductive pyrrhotite positive hotrocks will also produce variable and frequently steep GB reductions, although larger pyrrhotite will retain its signal similar to iron nails. Nickeline and cobalt minerals normally generate rather dramatic GB reductions, whereas native silver experiences little or no GB reduction as illustrated below. Compare the iron nail fastgrab readout to the silver fastgrab readout, keeping in mind that both produced an iron target ID.

3RD FINAL MERGE FRAMED.JPG

2ND FINAL MERGE FRAMED.JPG

We all encounter areas that are so inundated with blaring signals from small bits of iron trash such as tiny nails and tacks, non-descript shards, and interminable wire scraps that effective detecting in the motion all-metal mode is frustrating or next to impossible. In such conditions we use smaller coils to help with separating target signals, and we make good use of small iron discrimination or minimal / zero discrimination in conjunction with iron tones.

Using iron tones or small iron discrimination will result in overlooking deep silver that occasionally does target ID as iron, but that is the price of convenience. Silver reading as iron can result from recent ore removal operations disturbing the substrate, or for example, from adjacent iron compromising silverā€™s target ID, but the usual culprit is the magnetic susceptible iron mineralizations present beneath the coil that especially affect deeper target ID. As noted earlier, large iron at any depth frequently reads as non-ferrous and generates an attractive ā€˜dig meā€™ audio and target ID.

Individual discrimination preferences vary, but our rationale is that finding any silver while utilizing discrimination / tones beats the heck out of abandoning a trashy site with no silver found. After all, recreational prospecting is supposed to be an enjoyable, rewarding pursuit and not a study in frustration. The above modus operandi accounts for many fine examples of small native silver in our collection as with the nugget depicted below, recovered from a pyrrhotite-infested abandoned trail.

9.7 OZT NUGGET REVSF19PANYGG.JPG

A Tale of Two Target Signals

Prior to trenching or excavating this year, we had initially metal detected near the digsite pictured above and we made a point of removing larger surface iron to improve the odds of locating masked silver. Late one afternoon, an elongated signal, correctly indicated by the MXTā€™s iron probability readout, proved to be a sizable iron bar that was removed from several inches below the surface. Rechecking the immediate area produced another signal that was slightly offset to one side and perhaps a foot deeper. It consistently read at 20% iron probability, and resulted in the large silver sample you see below. It was a special moment to find it so close to the surface, and to realize that the encouraging audio signal and target ID had been produced by silver. If the iron bar hadn't first been removed, that silver signal would have been entirely masked by it regardless of coil size or type. The overlying shallow iron bar had produced a completely dominant, blaring signal.

The specimen below was HCl acid treated to remove excessive carbonate rock. It was cleaned with a rotary tool silicon carbide bit, followed by a soapy wash and rinse to produce the silver specimen depicted in the following photo. While not exactly a handsome sample because the silver is embedded in a dark blue-grey carbonate matrix, it is a fine example of massively structured dendritic native silver that accounts for much of the sampleā€™s total weight.

20161118_002424.jpg

10.4 LB DENDRITIC AG BLUE CARBONATE LOGSSF18YB.JPG

A Final Word

A tip of the hat to TreasureNet forum member Prospector Bill, an experienced silver hunter and avid outdoorsperson who has accompanied me on many prospecting excursions to northeastern Ontarioā€™s silverfields and more recently into Quebecā€™s Laurentian Mountains. Our memories are replete with exploring wilderness areas, electronic prospecting for silver ores, floats, and other minerals, and sharing companionable moments by flickering campfires on cool, starry autumn evenings over steaming pork and beans and hot coffee.

Prospector Bill had not been able to join me until very late in the season this year. To make good use of our available time, we selected a site that has reliably produced quality small silver for many years. To date weā€™ve also found a half-dozen or so larger specimen grade silver ores there, and more may yet surface. As illustrated below, silver recovery involves moving a fair bit of surface material to access deeper silver just beyond the range of our metal detectors. The work is justified because this site will consistently produce a few small specimens or nuggets up to several ozt in exchange for only a few hours effort.

COLEMAN DIGGINGS SITE FOUR SF19YG.JPG

3.3 OZT FRESH DUG AG ROCK SFBGB17.JPG

We had been scraping away the tailings and alternately scanning the fresh surfaces with 10ā€ elliptical coils while operating in motion all-metal modes. I had been working just around a bend and thinking about calling it quits for the day as a swirling snowstorm quickly swept up to us on the exposed hillslope.

Prospector Bill stepped around the tailings, with a rather pleased smile over a new silver recovery held out for me to see. I love the soft gleam of high purity silver embedded in creamy white calcite, so I took the photo above despite it being freshly dug and covered in wet dirt. A handsome find in addition to several other silver specimens recovered in just a few hours of detecting this site. Attached below is a multi-photo depicting some larger silver that weā€™ve found in the immediate vicinity over the years.

20161129_172038.jpg

We hope that you have enjoyed this presentation about our native silver and related minerals, and thankyou for dropping around to review it. We realize that northeastern Ontarioā€™s silver country is geologically quite different from what many readers encounter in their respective areas, and we are very fortunate to have reasonably close access to it.

If you have questions about what has been presented here, especially newcomers to the hobby, please donā€™t hesitate to fire away. No question is awkward or foolish, and weā€™ll do our best to provide a satisfactory answer. Good luck with your rock and mineral collecting adventuresā€¦ someday we hope it will be our good luck to meet you in the field.

Jim Hemmingway
December 2016
 

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johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Hello Jim,
I'm right there with ya on those iffy signals.... Over the years of detecting I have learned one thing... No matter how good the detector , it is still only as good as the operator.

Even with all the advancements in electronics the only true discriminator is a shovel and your eyes, granted the new machines can help but you still have to be willing to dig a lot of questionable signals.

I have found a lot of good stuff but I have also dug a lot of junk.

If I can help with any information let me know.

Best.
William.....aka.....johnedoe
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hello Jim,
I'm right there with ya on those iffy signals.... Over the years of detecting I have learned one thing... No matter how good the detector , it is still only as good as the operator.

Even with all the advancements in electronics the only true discriminator is a shovel and your eyes, granted the new machines can help but you still have to be willing to dig a lot of questionable signals.

I have found a lot of good stuff but I have also dug a lot of junk.

If I can help with any information let me know.

Best.
William.....aka.....johnedoe


Hi William... just a word or three to thank you for your contributions here. I've enjoyed the exchange, while learning some basics about your multi-frequency unit. I do like what I've seen, but would probably get it initially with coin and relic hunting in mind. Of course it would get a good workout in the silverfields, just to see what it can do. But meanwhile we are content to meander along with our old but trusty units that have proven themselves in this application as illustrated below. That sample was found in the same trenching area described in Recreational Prospecting.

If there are any more questions about your experience with the White's V3i I'll be sure to contact you, and thankyou very much for your offer to help. :icon_thumleft:

Jim.

1.4 LB SPECIMEN SFDDD17PANNYGSH.JPG
 

johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Hello Jim...
That is a beauty... Nothing like that in my neck of the woods, unfortunately.

I cannot argue with "If it ain't broke don't fix it". You just can't argue wth success.

So we will stay with that and by all means if you have any questions contact me via PM ... So back on track with your most excellent thread and finds.... I can only dream of finds like those you are making.

The likelihood of me ever making it to your part of the country is very slim but if I did I would also bring the MXT.

Happy hunting and a prosperous new year to you.
 

Lanny in AB

Gold Member
Apr 2, 2003
5,654
6,350
Alberta
Detector(s) used
Various Minelabs(5000, 2100, X-Terra 705, Equinox 800, Gold Monster), Falcon MD20, Tesoro Sand Shark, Gold Bug Pro, Makro Gold Racer.
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Jim,

As always, a pleasure to tag along during your discussions. There's always more to learn . . .

Thanks, and all the best,

Lanny

P.S. Back in the country now, been someplace much warmer, with no snow.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hello Jim...
That is a beauty... Nothing like that in my neck of the woods, unfortunately.

I cannot argue with "If it ain't broke don't fix it". You just can't argue wth success.

So we will stay with that and by all means if you have any questions contact me via PM ... So back on track with your most excellent thread and finds.... I can only dream of finds like those you are making.

The likelihood of me ever making it to your part of the country is very slim but if I did I would also bring the MXT.

Happy hunting and a prosperous new year to you.

Hi Williamā€¦ I agree with you that it is difficult to argue with success, but perhaps there is more to it. I think we can also hope to improve upon success by upgrading our equipment where we see a worthwhile benefit, and try to improve how we identify precious metal deposits.

As a race, we humans have never been content with the status quo, and continually strive to improve our technologies and hence our overall condition. A result is that we have evolved from cave dwellers to being on the very precipice of intergalactic travel. It also explains why you took the time to show me some of the pertinent features of the Whiteā€™s V3i that may very well prove beneficial in this application.

That really is the whole point of these forumsā€¦ to exchange information and ideas so that we all can benefit from each otherā€™s experience. Againā€¦ many thanks for doing so. :)

Jim.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Jim,

As always, a pleasure to tag along during your discussions. There's always more to learn . . .

Thanks, and all the best,

Lanny

P.S. Back in the country now, been someplace much warmer, with no snow.

Hi Lannyā€¦ glad to hear that youā€™ve safely returned home, and a belated Happy New Year to you and your family. Weā€™ve got solid winter temps over here and our family skating / hockey rink has been a great success so far. Just hope that the cold temps stay for awhile.

The Recreational Prospecting article is quite different from what Iā€™d originally intendedā€¦ more towards storytelling than anything else. But talking with a few people searching in the area without much success changed my mind. I donā€™t think newcomers only need to see the sunny highlights of detecting silver, but rather that they would be well served with some practical information pertaining to how we actually search for silver. The incident described below is what initially started me thinking along such lines.

When I arrived at camp this past autumn, the owner mentioned that a couple had journeyed there from Pennsylvania to search for silver. They had inquired whether I had arrived, but I hadnā€™t at that time. I asked him if they had found much silver and he replied that they had not experienced much successā€¦ a shame since they had made such a lengthy trip.

It leads me to think that successful hobbyists would do newcomers a real service if they would present more about the practical side of the hobby. The costs involved, the inconveniences and hard work, and the failures weā€™ve all faced while on the endless learning curve, in addition to highlighting the successes. That said, we do like to share our successes, and also sincerely wish to encourage newcomers by demonstrating what is still possible.

Jim.
 

TAKODA

Hero Member
Aug 19, 2008
920
1,046
Alabama
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Downright scholarly write up Jim :icon_thumright: . A fine read indeed ; outstanding silver pics as well . :hello:
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Downright scholarly write up Jim :icon_thumright: . A fine read indeed ; outstanding silver pics as well . :hello:

Well thanks Takodaā€¦ how the heck are you? I couldnā€™t fight back a smile when I read your comments. Never considered myself much above Neanderthal, but geezā€¦ coming from you ā€œscholarlyā€ sounds pretty good. Thanks for taking a moment to post those nice comments quoted above. Truth is that I usually donā€™t really know what to write until my fingers start moving on the keyboard, so Iā€™m pleased that you seemed to enjoy the read.

We had a really nice autumn in the northeastern Ontario woods, exploring and sampling, kicking rocks and digging all over the placeā€¦ and somehow we managed to find some silver. Surface detectingā€¦ at least with my equipment, which isnā€™t very deepseekingā€¦ usually means slim pickings nowadays, so weā€™ve resorted to lot of digging where our sampling results offer a glimmer of hope.

Hiking the outskirts of an abandoned mining camp one afternoon, I happened across a small area that a determined rockhunter had sampled by removing roughly the top foot of surface material. I took the photo below because his work illustrates exactly what is required. The entire sampling project probably required a full afternoon to complete. There was nothing to suggest deep silver was recovered at this site, at least no evidence of deep holesā€¦ but dimes to doughnuts says that with persistence this individual is bound to hit paydirt.

COLEMAN SCRAPINGS SFKE.JPG

Experienced hobbyists in our area will recognize that even encouraging sampling results are frequently misleading, and the subsurface proves to be unproductive. This is par for the course in this business. But if we can locate one productive site during the autumn season, in our experience the results justify the effort. Often enough the sites where trenching proves disappointing will still usually produce an occasional stray silver ore or nugget.

And we donā€™t feel that we have to find large silver. Comparatively small native silver as depicted below typically is the richest, or is the best character silver that we have in our collection. Just a sample or two each day over an autumn trip of six to eight weeks will pretty much fill an orebagā€¦ and that is plenty good enough for me.

20161129_150221.jpg

A belated Happy New Year to you, and all the very best with your goldhunting endeavors in the forthcoming year. Youā€™ve been showing some beautiful material below your signature line, and I think that youā€™ve worked hard for it. Good luck Takoda, and take care.

Jim.
 

shiro-san

Greenie
Jan 13, 2017
12
10
Quebec
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
great post! I'm completely new at this and have a couple of dumb questions. I was wondering if you ever approached active mine claims and ask them if it's possible to metal detect over bedrock once they're done with it? Probably there are people lining up with these type of requests. Looking forward to your answer, I want to head up to Val D'or this summer which is close to the sites you describe I suppose.

Cheers!
 

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OP
Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
great post! I'm completely new at this and have a couple of dumb questions. I was wondering if you ever approached active mine claims and ask them if it's possible to metal detect over bedrock once they're done with it? Probably there are people lining up with these type of requests. Looking forward to your answer, I want to head up to Val D'or this summer which is close to the sites you describe I suppose.

Cheers!

Shiro-sanā€¦ I see this is your first post here, so welcome to TreasureNetā€¦ hopefully weā€™ll hear about your future activities in the Val dā€™Or mining district.

Weā€™ve never asked permission to metal detect over bedrock, and we seldom detect bedrock anyway. Whatever small silver might be trapped in bedrock would be physically difficult to remove and not of much value compared to much larger silver that can be detected over widely extensive areas in the silverfields where target retrieval is comparably easy. Now if it were placer gold nuggets in the bedrock, that would be a different matter, but in this area silver recovery results from subsurface hardrock mining operations.

Bedrock is generally not far below the surface in this area, and there is plenty of accessible exposed bedrock right at the surface at many sites. Shallow bedrock helps to explain why most silver float has historically been found at or very near the surface. One consequence is that lightweight VLF units are quite suitable for float hunting, in fact preferable to slower ground coverage with heavier PI units.

We normally restrict our searching to abandoned minesite tailing disposal areas, former transport routes, and abandoned trails. In the past we sometimes hiked the outback south of Kerr Lake over towards Hermann Pond in search of silver floatā€¦ but without much success compared to some of the earlier detectorists of the 1980s.

I see nothing wrong with asking about detecting bedrock in Val dā€™Or or other areas. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Over the winter, I think you should read about Lannyā€™s experiences searching for bedrock placer gold on his highly informative thread Bedrock & Gold: The Mysteries at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting-gold/69-bedrock-gold-mysteries.html

I realize that to read it all is a bit overwhelming, but to get startedā€¦ try going back 30 pages or so and begin reading forward to get some top shelf practical ideas about how to go about it. I believe youā€™ll agree it is time very well spent. Ask questions here on the forum, and do your research on the area you intend to visit. Thanks for dropping around to comment, and all the best with your project. :)

Jim.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
thank you Jim!

Hi Shiro-sanā€¦ not knowing whether or not you have looked at the Quebec Claim Maps, below is a link that should get you there. I canā€™t access any government claim map site at the moment because apparently my computer is at riskā€¦ not quite sure what that means but no access is available to me.

Aside from all else you will wish to know where you can legally metal detect without trespassing on current claims. Also you may be able to obtain contact information for claim owners in the areas youā€™re interested in detecting.

https://www.mern.gouv.qc.ca/english/mines/rights/rights-gestim.jsp

Iā€™m frankly interested in the Val dā€™Or area and have often thought about a trip there. The wife and I have been to lower Quebec touring the widespread gold areas associated with the Chaudierre River system. Many of those areas are claimed or urbanized but there are some spots open to panning, and we did find one small gold nugget by moving a large boulder out of mid-stream and digging it out, but oddly we found no flakes. Iā€™ve seen plenty of evidence about locals who detect along these rivers finding decent size gold nuggets. Some of the largest gold nuggets found in Canada came from that area.

Good luck with your research. I hope the above information is helpful, and that you can access the information you need to plan a trip to either area.

Below is a silver specimen we detected in the trenching area described in Recreational Prospecting the previous autumn. I think readers will understand why we returned to the area the following year with trenching in mind.

Jim.

5.7 OZT SILVER CALCITE SF17PANYYGK.JPG
 

johnedoe

Bronze Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,489
2,239
Oregon Coast
Detector(s) used
White's V3i, White's MXT, and White's Eagle Spectrum
Cleangold sluice & prospectors pan, EZ-Gold Pan, and custom cleanup sluice.
Primary Interest:
Other
Awww Jim.... Your killing me with these silver specimens.....:happysmiley:....
Wish you all the best .... and keep them coming, I will continue to hunt with you vicariously.
 

kiwi jw

Full Member
May 8, 2006
239
32
Hi there Jim, Awesome post & l thank you for taking all that time & effort in sharing your hard won knowledge & finds from out in the fields. Yes it can certainly pay to get rid of those junk targets as you never know what they are hiding & masking from your detector. It is all very well detecting the junk & knowing it is junk with the discrimination reading, but a mistake to leave it there & walk on by. By actually removing it you can open up a whole new world.
I got myself an MXT 300 a few years ago to detect for gold on old bucket line dredge tailing piles. Still haven't got there yet.....& I drive past them often.
Many thanks & l wish you a very happy, healthy & successful 2017 out there.

Regards

John :)
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

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Jan 26, 2008
789
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Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Hi there Jim, Awesome post & l thank you for taking all that time & effort in sharing your hard won knowledge & finds from out in the fields. Yes it can certainly pay to get rid of those junk targets as you never know what they are hiding & masking from your detector. It is all very well detecting the junk & knowing it is junk with the discrimination reading, but a mistake to leave it there & walk on by. By actually removing it you can open up a whole new world.
I got myself an MXT 300 a few years ago to detect for gold on old bucket line dredge tailing piles. Still haven't got there yet.....& I drive past them often.
Many thanks & l wish you a very happy, healthy & successful 2017 out there.

Regards

John :)

Hi Johnā€¦ thankyou for dropping around and for posting those nice comments above. You are certainly no stranger to me because I enthusiastically follow your posts to the Detector-Prospector forum with lots of interest. I enjoy viewing your ruggedly beautiful scenery shots in addition to the numerous photos you employ to describe your field conditions. I hope youā€™ll continue to share your prospecting experiences and Iā€™m sure that everyone who reads your material appreciates your contributions.

Youā€™ve been doing really well with the GPZ7K. It is amazing to see the quantities of small gold that you have found using that machine. I read your recent story about having to use the Goldbug2 instead of the GPZ7K in that gully. Apparently you forgot a battery or accessory for the 7Kā€¦ whateverā€¦ and couldnā€™t use it. But I enjoyed reading about the quantities of small gold that you found using the Goldbug2. That experience as you related it illustrates once again that first and foremost we can attribute successful gold hunting to the operatorā€¦ since no detector can find gold by itself. It was a meaningful story with a lesson behind it, so thanks for sharing it with everyone.

Getting back to this silver thread for a moment, two photos below. One is a start-up digsite where we spent a few afternoons digging and eventually detecting the rock with vein material cutting through it as depicted in the second photo. I washed the rock prior to the photo to make the vein more visible. It is labeled as silver although there is no visible silver evident and wonā€™t be until it is treated, and the weight is misleading insofar as Iā€™m sure the actual vein material weighs no more than three or four pounds at most. There was no time to clean and include this rock into the Recreational Prospecting article.

All the very best to you and the family in the forthcoming year Johnā€¦ please keep writing about your adventures and maybe even post a few to this forum if possible. Good luck and take care. :)

Jim.

COLEMAN DIGSITE #2 SF.JPG

11.2 LB AG CALCITE VEIN SF18YYG.JPG
 

meMiner

Bronze Member
Jul 22, 2014
1,047
1,176
Port Perry, Ontario
Detector(s) used
Minelab 800,
Fisher CZ21, F75SE, Gold Bug 2.9 & Minelab GPX 5000
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Jim - I really like the way you clean up the rocks and photo your specimens. They are outstanding.

I also respect the digging that you have done - I can say that it is not easy. I have a few spots picked out to dig next year, that were good to me near the surface and I am keen to see what might be deeper.
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
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F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Great article Jim !! I just got back from Quartzsite and Tucson in Arizona. I took down approx. 50 lbs of silver specimens to sell. Sold out in 3 days.

Hi Fredā€¦ congratulationsā€¦ did you sell the material you didnā€™t particularly want to keep or did you sell some of your better quality silver? Did you have a booth at a mineral show? I hope you were pleased with the results.

Recreational Prospecting was primarily directed at newcomers to the area that havenā€™t had much success at finding silver. The best initial advice for these people is to search with a standard coil on a mid-frequency VLF operated in a motion all-metal mode that has enabled target ID, and dig every signal that has any chance of being non-ferrous. I think that most hobbyists would at least find some small silver at most sites if they put in the time swinging the coil in out-of-the-way places, conscientiously investigate every suspect signalā€¦ and dig ferrous target ID on weak, deeper signals. In short, turn on the detector, donā€™t overthink things, and go detecting.

I was into Cart Lake briefly to snoop around the old headframe depicted below as it formerly appeared. Now it looks about ready to fall over, so I hope theyā€™re going to restore it for the sake of the Silver Heritage Trail. A few small areas had been scraped down several inches with a dozer, so I scanned a section along the upper entrance with the F75 for an hour before it got dark. That produced a few small non-descript pieces including the one below, and no junk signals which was nice. It was heavier than all the others combinedā€¦ reminded me of years ago when such material was fairly commonplace there. Itā€™s not solid silver by any stretch, but still a nice surprise. It goes to show that you just never know what youā€™ll detect over fresh surfaces.

Jim.


HEADFRAME CART LAKE SFBB16.JPG

1.2 OZT NUGGET SF17YGPANO.JPG
 

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Jim Hemmingway

Jim Hemmingway

Hero Member
Jan 26, 2008
789
1,617
Canada
Detector(s) used
F-75, Infinium LS, MXT, GoldBug2, TDI Pro, 1280X Aquanaut, Garrett ProPointer
Primary Interest:
Prospecting
Jim - I really like the way you clean up the rocks and photo your specimens. They are outstanding.

I also respect the digging that you have done - I can say that it is not easy. I have a few spots picked out to dig next year, that were good to me near the surface and I am keen to see what might be deeper.

Thanks Greig, it isnā€™t much fun working on those rocks out in the patio on a typically cold November evening, especially since thereā€™s a fan going full tilt to blow away the rock dust. We stick to samples that will suitably illustrate an article and leave the rest for the following spring. You might notice that my photos are either straight silver or silver in calcite because they look much better than silver in grey country rock. We sometimes find larger, rich samples embedded in such grey rock, but they donā€™t make an attractive photo.

Sampling can be improved using deeperseeking equipment than mine, but it will still involve some elbow grease to move surface material out of the way. Surface sampling, if indicators can be found, sometimes point to what lies below, but there are no guarantees. It really is a hit and miss propositionā€¦ par for the course as you know. I donā€™t know of any systematic alternative method to locate inadvertent silver dumps that occurred frequently back in the day.

Below are two multi-photos showing some digsites from this past autumn and some rocks pre-rinsed prior to the photo. Three rocks are self-evident whereas most of the silver occupies the bottom three inches of the twenty-one lber. So that total weight is quite misleading once you examine the rock. It will require some serious work but after treatment it might weigh in around five or six lbsā€¦ elongated, probably six inches wide and three inches thick. The lower layer is replete with leafy or dendritic silver, soft and high purity. I intend to employ repetitive acid baths to expose it embedded in that calcite matrix. I may come back to this thread later in the year and post a treated sample photoā€¦ but first weā€™ll have to see how things turn out. :)

Jim.


20161130_005118.jpg

20161130_013310.jpg
 

trainermick

Full Member
Jul 15, 2009
112
74
Chatham, Ontario
Hi Jim, Quartzsite Arizona holds one of the largest Rock and Mineral shows in the USA. I took down approx. 59 lbs of silver in all forms including, leaf, float, dendritic, plate, and in matrix. I sold it to dealers at a wholesale price. They didn't care much for the slabbed pieces or the leaf. They were most interested in silver in matrix with a host rock, preferably calcite. Those pieces got me a premium price.
I don't think that I will slice my silver specimens anymore for the specimens that I will sell in the future. The dealers and hardcore collectors want to do it themselves.
 

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