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Thread: which detector can handle hot rocks/cold stones better than SDC2300

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  1. #16
    us
    Grumpie

    Oct 2016
    Cedar Park, Texas
    Nokta fors gold plus, tesoro lobo supertraq, Makro gold racer, Nokta Makro Anfibio
    203
    131 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by IMAUDIGGER View Post
    The Makro Goldracer seems to easily identify hot rocks.
    The target ID will read on the extreme ends of the spectrum.
    You can reject those signals in discrimination mode or pause and look at the target ID number.
    Not perfect, but much better than some other alternatives.

    I have no experience with Canadian detecting.
    I also tend to lower the sensitivity when the ground gets challenging.
    I 2nd that! with a GR a hot rock is unmistakable.

  2. #17
    ca
    Jul 2014
    Port Perry, Ontario
    Fisher CZ21, F75SE, Gold Bug 2.9 & Minelab GPX 5000
    1,029
    1143 times
    Metal Detecting
    I don't have an SDC, have used detectors near Kelowna, but never on Mission Creek. First thing I would think about with a great machine like yours is (1) battery charged? & (2) are the connectors all tight. After that, is there EMI from nearby power or cell towers? Also, leave the cell phone and other electronics in the vehicle if that is possibly causing grief. Next, turn down the threshold to try to run silent and then turn down the sensitivity (maybe to 2). If you are still having problems, there are two immediate thoughts - (1) move or (2) work through it, because you are probably on detector-virgin-ground. If you figure out a solution, I'd love to hear it. Good luck.
    Clay Diggins likes this.
    See my YouTube channel for amateur and fun videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnz...OeZbRt0F9XqVJA

  3. #18
    de
    Apr 2017
    Germany
    Minelab Equinox 800 + SDC2300
    261
    948 times
    Prospecting
    Thank's for your replies. I took some of those hotrocks home. A small supermagnet sticks to them. Mission creek was loaded with 'em. Probably a VLF with Iron cancel will handle them. I will receive the new Whites 24K for a test soon. I will try if I can cancel them out still seeing a sub grain nugget at a decent depth. I tried my Whites GMT and the hot rocks are easily identified by a "boing" sound but as there were tons of 'em the GMT would have not helped me much. (I just took my SDC2300) on this trip.
    Lanny in AB likes this.

  4. #19
    if it flies, it dies

    Jan 2015
    gpx 4500 sdc 2300
    568
    1226 times
    ducks, bucks and gold
    pesky iron stones. there is no cure for them as they are metal. the only thing theyre good for is letting you know youre in a likely gold bearing area
    got the fever? dont scratch the itch.

  5. #20
    us
    TerrysKnifeStore.com

    May 2010
    White Plains, New York
    Minelab GPZ 7000; Equinox 600 -- Teknetics EuroTek PRO -- Grave Digger Tools Nemesis shovel, Sidekick hand digger -- Bunk's Hermit Pick
    17,225
    23998 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Horst View Post
    Hi Lanny,
    I just brought my SDC2300 to BC as I was very limited on baggage flying in from Germany. My SDC was not usuable at all as there were tons of those hot rocks. Probably a new high-tech VLF would cancel them out? I have a Whites GMT and the hot-rocks I took home the gMT can't cancel them out. I was thinking about replacing the GMT with a Whites 24K or a Gold Monster 1000. I do need a machine capable of finding sub grain not gram nuggets which is able to cancel out hot-rocks. As I have family in Kelowna, BC my wife and me will be going to that area again and again.
    Yout thoughts are highly appreciated.
    AU2U
    Horst
    Having just attended Bill Southern's Minelab outing in Arizona, and listening to Debbie Smikoski from Minelab as she demonstrated the machines, I was VERY impressed with the Gold Monster 1000, and the Equinox 800. Many folks will tell you they can discriminate hot and cold rocks. People lie, or don't realize they are also missing gold if they set their discrimination too high. Hot rocks make a distinctive sound, different from a dense metal target. If you have a chance play with your SDC over the hot rock next to a lead slug, and REALLY listen to the signal over, and over.
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  6. #21
    Charter Member

    Apr 2003
    Alberta
    Various Minelabs(5000, 2100, X-Terra 705, Equinox 800, Gold Monster), Falcon MD20, Tesoro Sand Shark, Gold Bug Pro, Makro Gold Racer.
    5,198
    5376 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman View Post
    Having just attended Bill Southern's Minelab outing in Arizona, and listening to Debbie Smikoski from Minelab as she demonstrated the machines, I was VERY impressed with the Gold Monster 1000, and the Equinox 800. Many folks will tell you they can discriminate hot and cold rocks. People lie, or don't realize they are also missing gold if they set their discrimination too high. Hot rocks make a distinctive sound, different from a dense metal target. If you have a chance play with your SDC over the hot rock next to a lead slug, and REALLY listen to the signal over, and over.
    Now, that's a great tip!

    What Terry's talking about is tuning your ear, not to be confused with tuning the machine: you're trying to get your ear to hear the difference between the two so your brain will make a new slot for that sound in your memory bank.

    Nicely explained Terry, and Horst, all the best,

    Lanny
    Nothin' quite as fun as chasin' sassy nugget gold! http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/me...mysteries.html

  7. #22
    Charter Member
    us
    Nov 2018
    Portage, MI
    Bounty Hunter TR550-D
    18
    17 times
    RF Design
    The problem that the gentleman describes is saturation. PI detectors are better at dealing with it than IB types.

    The way a PI works is in simple terms, like sonar. The detector sends a pulse of lets guess, 250 us (millionths of a second) or less. The machine waits for the voltage in the coil to drop, then "listens" for a return (ok, this is a vastly simplified description.)

    Metals are inductors, they store energy, then release it. How fast they release it gives you an idea what metal is below ground. Rust, or any oxide on a metal is more conductive than the base metal itself. Rusty (conductive oxide coated) nails anyone?

    If the target return [the target is something like a gold nugget] does not loose the energy that was added to it by the PREVIOUS pulse, BEFORE the next pulse you have saturation. The detector is going to say the target is everywhere, and it can't locate it.

    If you want to try this at home, find a clean spot in the back yard, pop the metal handle off of a five gallon (large) plastic bucket, set it down bottom up, set a gold ring on top and pour a big box of nails on top of it.


    So, what can be done about this?


    1. More advanced PI detectors allow you to adjust the length of the pulse, it is part of their "ground balance" strategy. You end up with shorter pulse, more frequently, which is possibly balanced more toward gold detection. It sounds like his machine does this.

    2. Put the smallest coil available on the machine, less coil, less energy into the ground. Bring the hot rocks to his dealer and try different coils and machines. A good dealer will welcome the challenge.

    or

    3. Assay the ore in the area, see if there is an economically viable smelter available (after mining and paying for the use of the smelter can you make money with the iron?) and file a claim...

    Best of luck detecting.

    Jim
    Lanny in AB and Terry Soloman like this.

  8. #23
    de
    Apr 2017
    Germany
    Minelab Equinox 800 + SDC2300
    261
    948 times
    Prospecting
    Hi Lanny,

    there ain't much to learn using the SDC2300. I can just go lower or higher on the sensitivity. It's not like my GMT where I can play with sensitivity, ground balance and VSAT to obtain the best performance. There are even no connectors which could be the reason as there is only one for the headphones. I just had the machine checked by Minelab in Ireland and it is in 100% working order. I guess the rocks were just too hot.

  9. #24
    de
    Apr 2017
    Germany
    Minelab Equinox 800 + SDC2300
    261
    948 times
    Prospecting
    a very good point to change the target animal. I have been thinking about it a several times. The machines I have don't seem to be good for this job. With the GMT I'm picking up hundreds of signals from 1mm wire pieces etc. way too many to dig them all and not really any descrimination. The SDC is the same. I have been thinking about getting me the new Whites Treasuremaster for that kind of job. There is lots of mining history in my area. Iron ore was their main target. So plenty of signals without having a descrimination but maybe interesting artefacts and coins too. I wish we had streams with rough bedrock. There is no such streams in my area otherwise I would have tried. Bedrock is always very interesting. But let's see - I booked a ticket to go back to the North Yuba in Sep2019. I know there is some gold waiting for me. Hopefully my first piece with a MD.
    beekbuster likes this.

  10. #25
    de
    Apr 2017
    Germany
    Minelab Equinox 800 + SDC2300
    261
    948 times
    Prospecting
    Terry, a very good point. You are the very first person telling me that there is a difference in the signal between gold and hot rock. I know the difference for my VLF but never heard or read about this fact when it comes to PI detectors / SDC2300. First thing when I get home today is to try this out with a hot rock and my 1/2 gram training nugget.
    Terry Soloman likes this.

  11. #26
    de
    Apr 2017
    Germany
    Minelab Equinox 800 + SDC2300
    261
    948 times
    Prospecting
    a friendly dealer is going to let me try the new Whites 24K for some days. I will try to manipulate the ground balance to a point I can still find coins and nuggets and get rid of those hot rocks. As we have family in Kelowna I will be going back to Mission creek for sure and want to be prepared for those rocks. By the way did anybody of you have experience with the new Whites 24K? Does it have big advantages over the GMT?

  12. #27
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
    SDC2300, Gold Bug 2 Burlap, fish oil, ACME handbook for TRUE prospectors (unread)
    5,716
    12409 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Banner Finds (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Horst View Post
    Terry, a very good point. You are the very first person telling me that there is a difference in the signal between gold and hot rock. I know the difference for my VLF but never heard or read about this fact when it comes to PI detectors / SDC2300. First thing when I get home today is to try this out with a hot rock and my 1/2 gram training nugget.
    The more you use it the more you'll hear.

    Iron targets scream. and you will hear a slight "fuzz" in the target tone.

    Non- ferrous targets are sharp and crisp and also scream as they increase in size.

    small targets will be faint but audible and once close to the coil..LOUD and crisp.

    Good targets are easily heard.

    .22 shells are amazingly detectable...I have found a couple at like 8 inches. Just loud as heck right from the first coil pass.

    Try this.. put an aluminum can on the ground. The sdc will pick it up like 5 ft away its awesome.

    Noisy ground is a pain if it is just ground noise you can deal with it. Try turning the sdc down. I typically hunt on 4 But, I have turned down to three a few times just to see. More stable threshold and it didn't seem to lose depth. Since the higher setting was workable I just go with it.

    Also after you turn on do a channel search. Holding the coil off the ground but oriented as it will be when your hunting.

    If I get any weird beeps or falses. I channel search again.

    If I top a ridge and head another direction I channel search again. I also ground balance often.

    if you are in an are with emi you will know when you lay your machine sideways and get random tones. It's kind of like an antenna that has been turned (tuned)
    to pick up a signal from a different direction.


    As far as trash. you just have to wade in VLFs are nice if you want to discriminate out obvious trash. But, you are gonna leave good targets. If the ground has a lot of iron non iron targets can give false ID. especially small ones.

    A rake and a strong magnet are key if you really want to clean a trashy spot. Or just slow detecting. If its mainly can slaw and wire it hangs out near the surface and can be raked pretty quickly. Allowing you to get your coil target to target, vs. it yelling at you just for getting it near the ground.

    When I had a GB pro. if I turned it to the disc. mode. I wouldn't turn up the disc. I just used it to hunt by tone and vdi value. I like the GMT grunt feature. But, when I had one and a GM4B I was able to make them both mask and lose targets by using auto tune. It would beep then grunt like it was iron but end up being a small non ferrous target.

    GM4 didn't have auto tune and it had the old meter which I liked. They both were really accurate most of the time. But, they still gave wrong ID's occasionally so not perfect.

    With my Gold Bug 2 I'll switch on iron disc to see if the target notches out.. but, still end up digging it. I've gotten gold more than a few times out of a hole that had trash in it.

    Jumpy target ID and changing tones tend to be multiple targets of mixed type or a bi metal object.

  13. #28
    de
    Apr 2017
    Germany
    Minelab Equinox 800 + SDC2300
    261
    948 times
    Prospecting
    I am happy receiving so much good advice here in the forum.
    Many thanks to all of you for your great support.
    I really find it strange that none of the articles covering the SDC never mentioned different tones for different targets like in the articles talking about VLFs.
    I have found a lot of stuff with my SDC except gold.
    I guess as being in an area with lots of iron ore I will take the SDC and start digging all targets for a while. Probably I can start a business selling used barb wire soon but I'm out there doing something. I'll let you know what happens.
    I'm really excited about taking the SDC to North Yuba next year checking bedrock.
    If you have any good idea wheook for detecable gold in Europe I'd be very happy to hear about.
    In north italy I found flakes (with sluicebox & pan) which are detecable for both (not all of them) VLF and PI but they are about 1.5 foot deep on a clay layer. I don't think any detector will pick them up? The flakes are flat and can be up to 10mm in length - a glacier deposit.Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Horst; Nov 29, 2018 at 04:17 AM.

  14. #29
    bug
    bug is offline

    Jun 2008
    Nor Cal
    220
    342 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Ya Horst, just dig everything when you are learning the detector. Dig it all and let the scoop sort it out. After awhile you will notice the non ferrous sounds are cleaner and a typical wee-oo signal, on the 2300. On larger targets and usually iron, the signal flips to an Oo-wee and sometimes the target signal sounds off at a faster rate from my experience. It takes awhile to develop the ear for it. Most guys will cherry pick the targets, but that means you can miss out on larger nuggets. So when you're on a patch, or high probability ground, its best to dig everything. For general patch prospecting thats not practical so you tend to pick out the cleaner sounds.
    beekbuster and Goldwasher like this.

  15. #30
    ca
    Jul 2014
    Port Perry, Ontario
    Fisher CZ21, F75SE, Gold Bug 2.9 & Minelab GPX 5000
    1,029
    1143 times
    Metal Detecting
    OMG. I will have to read this thread many times to digest the great content!
    Terry: I just bought a Nox800 for a trip to Aruba (for my wife -hehe). Are you saying it is a good placer gold machine? I have a Gold Bug SE and and a GPX5000. Should I also take along the 800?
    See my YouTube channel for amateur and fun videos:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnz...OeZbRt0F9XqVJA

 

 
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