which detector can handle hot rocks/cold stones better than SDC2300

[Horst]

I just returned from Kelowna, BC Canada. I tried to use my SDC2300 in Mission creek but the hot rocks/cold stones drove it nuts and I could not cancel them out. I also have a White's GMT and the stones I took home I cannot cancel out. Would the new White's 24K or a Gold Monster 1000 do a better job? Thank's for your comments.

 

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[Lanny in AB]

Having just attended Bill Southern's Minelab outing in Arizona, and listening to Debbie Smikoski from Minelab as she demonstrated the machines, I was VERY impressed with the Gold Monster 1000, and the Equinox 800. Many folks will tell you they can discriminate hot and cold rocks. People lie, or don't realize they are also missing gold if they set their discrimination too high. Hot rocks make a distinctive sound, different from a dense metal target. If you have a chance play with your SDC over the hot rock next to a lead slug, and REALLY listen to the signal over, and over.

Now, that's a great tip!

What Terry's talking about is tuning your ear, not to be confused with tuning the machine: you're trying to get your ear to hear the difference between the two so your brain will make a new slot for that sound in your memory bank.

Nicely explained Terry, and Horst, all the best,

Lanny

 

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[jcc]

The problem that the gentleman describes is saturation. PI detectors are better at dealing with it than IB types.

The way a PI works is in simple terms, like sonar. The detector sends a pulse of lets guess, 250 us (millionths of a second) or less. The machine waits for the voltage in the coil to drop, then "listens" for a return (ok, this is a vastly simplified description.)

Metals are inductors, they store energy, then release it. How fast they release it gives you an idea what metal is below ground. Rust, or any oxide on a metal is more conductive than the base metal itself. Rusty (conductive oxide coated) nails anyone?

If the target return [the target is something like a gold nugget] does not loose the energy that was added to it by the PREVIOUS pulse, BEFORE the next pulse you have saturation. The detector is going to say the target is everywhere, and it can't locate it.

If you want to try this at home, find a clean spot in the back yard, pop the metal handle off of a five gallon (large) plastic bucket, set it down bottom up, set a gold ring on top and pour a big box of nails on top of it.


So, what can be done about this?


1. More advanced PI detectors allow you to adjust the length of the pulse, it is part of their "ground balance" strategy. You end up with shorter pulse, more frequently, which is possibly balanced more toward gold detection. It sounds like his machine does this.

2. Put the smallest coil available on the machine, less coil, less energy into the ground. Bring the hot rocks to his dealer and try different coils and machines. A good dealer will welcome the challenge.

or

3. Assay the ore in the area, see if there is an economically viable smelter available (after mining and paying for the use of the smelter can you make money with the iron?) and file a claim...

Best of luck detecting.

Jim

 

[Horst]

Hi Lanny,

there ain't much to learn using the SDC2300. I can just go lower or higher on the sensitivity. It's not like my GMT where I can play with sensitivity, ground balance and VSAT to obtain the best performance. There are even no connectors which could be the reason as there is only one for the headphones. I just had the machine checked by Minelab in Ireland and it is in 100% working order. I guess the rocks were just too hot.

 

[Horst]

a very good point to change the target animal. I have been thinking about it a several times. The machines I have don't seem to be good for this job. With the GMT I'm picking up hundreds of signals from 1mm wire pieces etc. way too many to dig them all and not really any descrimination. The SDC is the same. I have been thinking about getting me the new Whites Treasuremaster for that kind of job. There is lots of mining history in my area. Iron ore was their main target. So plenty of signals without having a descrimination but maybe interesting artefacts and coins too. I wish we had streams with rough bedrock. There is no such streams in my area otherwise I would have tried. Bedrock is always very interesting. But let's see - I booked a ticket to go back to the North Yuba in Sep2019. I know there is some gold waiting for me. Hopefully my first piece with a MD.

 

[Horst]

Terry, a very good point. You are the very first person telling me that there is a difference in the signal between gold and hot rock. I know the difference for my VLF but never heard or read about this fact when it comes to PI detectors / SDC2300. First thing when I get home today is to try this out with a hot rock and my 1/2 gram training nugget.

 

[Horst]

a friendly dealer is going to let me try the new Whites 24K for some days. I will try to manipulate the ground balance to a point I can still find coins and nuggets and get rid of those hot rocks. As we have family in Kelowna I will be going back to Mission creek for sure and want to be prepared for those rocks. By the way did anybody of you have experience with the new Whites 24K? Does it have big advantages over the GMT?

 

[Goldwasher]

Terry, a very good point. You are the very first person telling me that there is a difference in the signal between gold and hot rock. I know the difference for my VLF but never heard or read about this fact when it comes to PI detectors / SDC2300. First thing when I get home today is to try this out with a hot rock and my 1/2 gram training nugget.

The more you use it the more you'll hear.

Iron targets scream. and you will hear a slight "fuzz" in the target tone.

Non- ferrous targets are sharp and crisp and also scream as they increase in size.

small targets will be faint but audible and once close to the coil..LOUD and crisp.

Good targets are easily heard.

.22 shells are amazingly detectable...I have found a couple at like 8 inches. Just loud as heck right from the first coil pass.

Try this.. put an aluminum can on the ground. The sdc will pick it up like 5 ft away its awesome.

Noisy ground is a pain if it is just ground noise you can deal with it. Try turning the sdc down. I typically hunt on 4 But, I have turned down to three a few times just to see. More stable threshold and it didn't seem to lose depth. Since the higher setting was workable I just go with it.

Also after you turn on do a channel search. Holding the coil off the ground but oriented as it will be when your hunting.

If I get any weird beeps or falses. I channel search again.

If I top a ridge and head another direction I channel search again. I also ground balance often.

if you are in an are with emi you will know when you lay your machine sideways and get random tones. It's kind of like an antenna that has been turned (tuned)
to pick up a signal from a different direction.


As far as trash. you just have to wade in VLFs are nice if you want to discriminate out obvious trash. But, you are gonna leave good targets. If the ground has a lot of iron non iron targets can give false ID. especially small ones.

A rake and a strong magnet are key if you really want to clean a trashy spot. Or just slow detecting. If its mainly can slaw and wire it hangs out near the surface and can be raked pretty quickly. Allowing you to get your coil target to target, vs. it yelling at you just for getting it near the ground.

When I had a GB pro. if I turned it to the disc. mode. I wouldn't turn up the disc. I just used it to hunt by tone and vdi value. I like the GMT grunt feature. But, when I had one and a GM4B I was able to make them both mask and lose targets by using auto tune. It would beep then grunt like it was iron but end up being a small non ferrous target.

GM4 didn't have auto tune and it had the old meter which I liked. They both were really accurate most of the time. But, they still gave wrong ID's occasionally so not perfect.

With my Gold Bug 2 I'll switch on iron disc to see if the target notches out.. but, still end up digging it. I've gotten gold more than a few times out of a hole that had trash in it.

Jumpy target ID and changing tones tend to be multiple targets of mixed type or a bi metal object.

 

[Horst]

I am happy receiving so much good advice here in the forum.
Many thanks to all of you for your great support.
I really find it strange that none of the articles covering the SDC never mentioned different tones for different targets like in the articles talking about VLFs.
I have found a lot of stuff with my SDC except gold.
I guess as being in an area with lots of iron ore I will take the SDC and start digging all targets for a while. Probably I can start a business selling used barb wire soon but I'm out there doing something. I'll let you know what happens.
I'm really excited about taking the SDC to North Yuba next year checking bedrock.
If you have any good idea wheook for detecable gold in Europe I'd be very happy to hear about.
In north italy I found flakes (with sluicebox & pan) which are detecable for both (not all of them) VLF and PI but they are about 1.5 foot deep on a clay layer. I don't think any detector will pick them up? The flakes are flat and can be up to 10mm in length - a glacier deposit.

 

[bug]

Ya Horst, just dig everything when you are learning the detector. Dig it all and let the scoop sort it out. After awhile you will notice the non ferrous sounds are cleaner and a typical wee-oo signal, on the 2300. On larger targets and usually iron, the signal flips to an Oo-wee and sometimes the target signal sounds off at a faster rate from my experience. It takes awhile to develop the ear for it. Most guys will cherry pick the targets, but that means you can miss out on larger nuggets. So when you're on a patch, or high probability ground, its best to dig everything. For general patch prospecting thats not practical so you tend to pick out the cleaner sounds.

 

[meMiner]

OMG. I will have to read this thread many times to digest the great content!
Terry: I just bought a Nox800 for a trip to Aruba (for my wife -hehe). Are you saying it is a good placer gold machine? I have a Gold Bug SE and and a GPX5000. Should I also take along the 800?

 

[beekbuster]

my favorite sound on the sdc is when it is a very low broad mellow signal. sounds like bird shot, but larger...almost always gold.

 

[Horst]

Gerry from Gerry's detectors recommended the Equinox 800 to me as a machine that would give me the best of both worlds. Means coin and relic hunting and small Gold also. As I'm searching in the water the machine is waterproof up to 10 feet. I would love to hear your opinions and probably experiences with this machine. From the first look it seems to be rather complicated but with a good reliable target ID and exact descrimination I could probably get around the hot rocks much better?

 

[beekbuster]

its like comparing apples to oranges. a vlf by the vary nature of the type of technology, cannot do what the sdc can do. you have the best small gold detector money can buy!!!!!!!!!!!! pm me next time youre in northern california.... you will go home with gold that you found.

 

[Lanny in AB]

its like comparing apples to oranges. a vlf by the vary nature of the type of technology, cannot do what the sdc can do. you have the best small gold detector money can buy!!!!!!!!!!!! pm me next time youre in northern california.... you will go home with gold that you found.

Wow! Now that's the kind of thing only a truly unselfish person is willing to do to help out a rookie!

What you've told Horst is solid gold. If his SDC is functioning properly, he's got the premier pulse machine for small gold and it's pretty much clutching at straws to think a VLF will outperform it when it comes to hot rocks or ironstone. Yes, in mild ground it's easier to swing a VLF, and some of them might get more small gold in those conditions as fatigue wouldn't be as much of a factor, but he's already got the best of the best for small gold when it comes to a detector that can handle mineralization.

I'm sad he hasn't experienced any success yet, but I'm not convinced it's because he has the wrong machine, but I do understand the frustrating nature of being in an area loaded with ironstone--been there--done that--many times, but with enough experience, a nugget shooter should still be able to hear the gold in the same area as well. A super-magnet on a wand would help solve a lot of the ironstone problem as when the ironstone is plucked out of the equation in a selected area, things quiet down fast and then the gold is easier to hear.

I think Horst was in an area of concentrated ironstone, but I believe he needs more time-on-task. As Steve H. over on detectorprospector.com recommends, I believe Horst needs to get some various sizes of little pieces of aluminum, go sprinkle or bury them on or in some test ground and practice finding those bits with his machine (as they sound like gold) until he "tunes" his ear to what he's looking for. There's no substitute for time spent swinging a machine while finding and recovering targets--no substitute whatsoever.

All the best, and thanks for extending your generous offer to Horst,

Lanny

 

[Horst]

I have received so much very valuable help and already have made friends here on treasurenet. It really means a world to me. Last year we met Joe right here on treasurenet. He picked us up at the hotel - we never met before - we went to Roaring Camp together, Kerstin my lovely wife, Joe and me. After a few hours Kerstin and I felt like we have known him forever. So is Rick - we met him in California and he let me work on his claim on the North Yuba. Unfortunately I did not hear from him since the fires went on. I'm praying for him but god knows what happened. I still hope to hear from him. We also met Pauly "Pioneer Pauly" in Canada. A hell of a good person!There are so many good people out here. Thank you all and god bless you and yours.
I know I don't have the chance to practice under live conditions. I have a very limited time when travelling overseas. I enjoyed Joe's and my trip to Stanton AZ this year very much. I did not find gold but BBs, tiny pieces of lead shavings, all kinds of crap und a burrow shoe at least 100 years old.
I'm still dreaming of my first piece of gold with a MD but being out there with friends is worth much more.
Now, my next project will be "hunting another animal" like beekbuster supposed. I will try to get me a Nox 800 as soon as my budget allows and start hunting coins and relics as a lot of guys been roaming my area hundreds of years ago.
I wish you and your families a very happy and peaceful christmas. The days before christmas are the days most miracles happen.

God bless

Horst

 

[Lanny in AB]

I have received so much very valuable help and already have made friends here on treasurenet. It really means a world to me. Last year we met Joe right here on treasurenet. He picked us up at the hotel - we never met before - we went to Roaring Camp together, Kerstin my lovely wife, Joe and me. After a few hours Kerstin and I felt like we have known him forever. So is Rick - we met him in California and he let me work on his claim on the North Yuba. Unfortunately I did not hear from him since the fires went on. I'm praying for him but god knows what happened. I still hope to hear from him. We also met Pauly "Pioneer Pauly" in Canada. A hell of a good person!There are so many good people out here. Thank you all and god bless you and yours.
I know I don't have the chance to practice under live conditions. I have a very limited time when travelling overseas. I enjoyed Joe's and my trip to Stanton AZ this year very much. I did not find gold but BBs, tiny pieces of lead shavings, all kinds of crap und a burrow shoe at least 100 years old.
I'm still dreaming of my first piece of gold with a MD but being out there with friends is worth much more.
Now, my next project will be "hunting another animal" like beekbuster supposed. I will try to get me a Nox 800 as soon as my budget allows and start hunting coins and relics as a lot of guys been roaming my area hundreds of years ago.
I wish you and your families a very happy and peaceful christmas. The days before christmas are the days most miracles happen.

God bless

Horst

You really do live in a ripe area for historical-artifact and coin hunting, so here's good luck to you, and all the best as any time you invest in coin-shooting or relic hunting will only help tune your overall metal-detecting senses, regardless of the type of metal you chase as it's all knowledge in the bank,

Lanny

 

[Horst]

Happy New Year to all of you wishing you lots of health and Gold in 2019. I made myself a christmas present and traded in my Whites GMT (with some money on top) for a new Equinox 800. What a machine to learn! I have been out for about 3 hours and found my first coin. 2 Pfennig Deutsches Reich 1875. The condition is no good at all but after some cleaning I am able to read it now. I'm happy with my start and hope to go out again soon. The topic of my thread here....the hotrocks I had to deal with in Canada show up in the iron range so the detector doesn't see them or if in all metal mode the difference between the HR and other targets is very obvious.

 

[IMPDLN]

I'll offer another tidbit nobody else mentioned concerning the SDC. This unit is a ground tracking detector. When on variable ground you must slow down your swing speed. If it is heavily infused with iron you will also have to hunt in sensitivity of 2 or even lower. If the iron rocks you are detecting are small, like pea sized, all you can do is detect them and remove with a super magnet on your pick. If the rocks are larger like tennis balls, the signal will be elongated and obvious with more experience. Gold and lead are usually short zips and clean signals. Iron is a raspier signal. Hope this helps. Dennis

 

[Horst]

I'll offer another tidbit nobody else mentioned concerning the SDC. This unit is a ground tracking detector. When on variable ground you must slow down your swing speed. If it is heavily infused with iron you will also have to hunt in sensitivity of 2 or even lower. If the iron rocks you are detecting are small, like pea sized, all you can do is detect them and remove with a super magnet on your pick. If the rocks are larger like tennis balls, the signal will be elongated and obvious with more experience. Gold and lead are usually short zips and clean signals. Iron is a raspier signal. Hope this helps. Dennis

Hi Dennis, many thanks for your advice. The HR are the size of a chicken egg. I brought 3 HR home and will try what you suggested. I guess it will be no problem to use the Nox800 there. Maybe it will not find the same size of gold at a certain depth as the SDC but at least it is trouble free. I know I have to work on my hearing. I did not know that even a PI will give different sounds but I had to learn this from the feedbacks I received.

 

[meMiner]

Gerry from Gerry's detectors recommended the Equinox 800 to me as a machine that would give me the best of both worlds. Means coin and relic hunting and small Gold also. As I'm searching in the water the machine is waterproof up to 10 feet. I would love to hear your opinions and probably experiences with this machine. From the first look it seems to be rather complicated but with a good reliable target ID and exact descrimination I could probably get around the hot rocks much better?

My two cents. I bought "my wife" a NOX800. I just got back from Aruba where I used it on the beach and in the water for a few weeks. It works well on jewelry and coins. It avoided all iron, except beer bottle caps and the odd bolt. That said, even though it has a prospecting mode, I would probably leave it at home for prospecting gold, unless I was looking to dive with it (less than 10').