Project + Indians + GOLD!!!

[DigEmAll]

So, while out taking care of business today, I ran into a rancher who owns a spot that I had a hunch about due to some research last week.?

I read that a cargo train route (wagon train for cargo, not passengers) ran through a gap and by a spring where there was a watering hole and a station by 1880.? I also read that it ran from a certain canyon to another canyon that is about fifty miles away.? Well, after some deductive reasoning, I figured that it must be this certain spot.? So today, I asked the rancher if he happened to know where the route ran.? He turns and points to a falling in shack about thirty yards from where we were standing.? "That's the station right there and you're standing in the old road." he says.? I was dumbfounded!? So I start stammering and stuttering and finally ask if he'd mind if I came and hunted around the station.? He said that he didn't mind and then tells me where the old school was back then and the church cemetary and then gives me free range of his ranch.?

We start chatting about his ranch and I find out the vastness of the project.? About 25 sections of prime, history laden land!? For you city folk, there are 640 acres in a section.? That's 16,000 acres!!!!!!!!!!!? This land has been ridden through and ranched by the likes of: John Slaughter, Geronimo, the Earps, Ringo, Doc holiday, the Clanton gang, Curly Bill, and probably Pancho Villa!? Not to mention the Spanards in the 1540's!? I think I have just found one of the "Lost Gold Mines" of Arizona!? Wish me luck!

 

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[AzSports]

Re: Very large project!

Well, being private rules out picking up any abandoned equipment!

I'll get out those maps this w/e and pm or whatever them if possible. I have others that use plastic see thru current maps that can be put over the old ones that really help locate stuff. The Military ones are your best lead on Indian settlements as far as I know.

That and looking up the old census records have led to some pretty neat old places, but no big find yet. I'm gonna hit one Thursday where we've found a 1919 weatie and a 1800 something Morgan, but a lot of junk is making it tough. I'm hoping a new detector will help.

I didn't know St Davids water is new. I assumed it to be quite fertile back 100 years when the river flowed to Tucson year around. Interesting!

I don't have any way of finding Indian spots other than the natural resources thing.
They dug clay for pots where the clay was. They made them near there and water. A big tree is great. I have a spot where the were some big ones ten-fifteen years ago that are great, so an old log on the ground helps. I hit the washes for points cause thats where the game is, with limited success. The best places for points are the old battle sites if you can pin it down. Most times its just a product of getting out.

What amazes me is that there were wood structures , old adobe remains around twenty years ago that have disappeared now. Must be the life span of that stuff here. That makes recollections of the folks that have been around, very helpful to say the least!

 

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[DigEmAll]

Re: Very large project!

I would really appreciate the maps!!!! The place with the stage coach station really has everything. Old cottonwoods... that are dead. I guess the water that remains there isn't enough to keep them alive, but they are old and have been dead a long time also. I guess I should focus my efforts in this area.

This is a picture of the old station. It is abobe and the walls are in poor shape and the roof is gone. It is about ten foot square with the "Shoot through windows." The ones that are about eight inches tall and about two and a half feet wide. This picture was taken from the area with the modern graffiti and a few of the matates. Luckily the rancher has put up gates on this road and the general public can not get into this area from the back of the property any longer. To come in from the front you have to drive right beside his house so maybe this will be here for the next generation.

 

[DigEmAll]

Re: Very large project!

I'm going out to do some more walking tomorrow... see if I can locate the army camp. I'm going to carry the detector tomorrow too. If anything good pops up, you guys will be the first to know!

 

[EDDE]

Re: Very large project!

LUCK!

 

[DigEmAll]

Re: Very large project!

I have come to the conclusion that:

1.? Indians in southern Arizona didn't make arrowheads or other stone tools.
2.? Everyone riding the stage through the valley carried nothing in their pockets but broken bits of pot metal and wire.
3.? The indians made lots of matates, but took the grinders with them when they left.

All I found today after eight honest hours of hunting was another set of matates on the other side of the valley, a mule shoe and half a horse shoe, and hundreds of pieces of pot metal, tin, and wire. (hunting in zero discrimination mode)

I found about twelve more matates, all about the same as the others.? They were about eight inches across and fourteen to sixteen inches deep.? So that makes about sixty or so of these things.? Now I want to know where all the grinders went!? I am betting that they were wood that was spun and tamped to grind the corn and make the holes.? Mostly because they are perfectly round.? I have yet to find a single arrowhead... they have got to be there!!!? I never have been good at finding those things though, just one or two here and there.

I also found what I think are a set of army corrals down by another spring, close to the area that the camp was supposed to have been.? I didn't locate the camp though.? It is supposed to be on the very top of a hill over-looking the station.? That means that I get to climb every hill in the area.? I only covered about 2/3's of them today.? I was just spot hunting today, trying to locate the camp by hunting the hilltops.

I did check out a couple of the dead cottonwoods though.? There are three that are about twelve feet in circumference.? That makes them about five feet in diameter.? HUGE!!!? They have been dead long enough for the tops to rot out just leaving about thirty feet of the trunks.? I would bet a good deal of money that they were there 130 years ago!?

Anyways, there's your update.? I'm going to try to get back out tomorrow and hit the rest of the hill tops.? If I do, I'll let you guys know!

 

[AzSports]

Re: Very large project!

Gem show started yesterday. There's and American Indian expo on Irvington, I'll bet theres so good inspiration too.
http://www.usaindianinfo.org/

The gem show stuff to see and do in town now is amazing.

I didn't forget the maps. so little time at home. I'm trying to finish a project at work and leave town.

 

[EDDE]

Re: Very large project!

hang in there dude! LUCK

 

[DigEmAll]

Re: Very large project!

Hey MindHunter,

Nope, I'm not around any of those places, I'm down on the border. Looks like you have a nive spot to hunt as well!

 

[EDDE]

Re: Very large project!

cool....

 

[newtocoinhunting]

Re: Very large project!

Best of luck with the project, if you haven't checked out this site it might be of interest to you:
http://www.over-land.com/trwestsouth.html

From one of the stage trail maps there, Birch's Line and the Butterfield Overland passed through Southern AZ.

 

[DigEmAll]

Re: Very large project!

Wow Newtocoinhunting. Now that's some great information!

 

[DigEmAll]

Re: Very large project!

GOLD!!!!

I found gold today out at the station!? Well, about a mile from the station.? While still trying to find the army camp that is supposed to overlook the station, I found a wash full of black sand.? I followed it back uphill a while and found a large rock, maybe six feet across, that is studded with gold flakes and small nuggets!? How cool is that?? Just when you least expect it!? So I looked around and found an empty jalapenos can that some illegal had left in the desert and scooped up a can full of the sand and washed it when I got home.? I also grabbed a small rock that was flaking from the bigger one and brought it home.? It's full of tiny nuggets and flakes and has one nice sized nugget in it.? Maybe about the size of a #6 lead shot.



On another note, I still didn't find the army camp.? I found some more matates... again.?



I am getting aggravated with the station.? There is soooo much wire and trash there that it is impossible to hunt without using a lot of discrimination.? Do they make a magnet that will suck a two inch piece of wire through about six inches of dirt that is like concrete?? It's not so much all the trash that is aggravating me, it is trying to dig the stuff up.? I mean the dirt is so hard, that if I do find something nice, I am going to kill it trying to dig it up.? I literally need a pick sometimes!



Anyway, enjoy the pictures!

#1 is the sand from the wash... look closely
#2 is the larger nugget shown next to the wheatie
#3 is the small rock with some of the nuggets and flakes marked

 

[DigEmAll]

BTW, the jar is a trick that an old guy showed me once. It really does work! Take a regular Mason jar and fill it about 1/3 with the dirt or sand. Put it in a plate in the sink and start running water into the jar. After it is full, cover it with your hand and shake it. Pour off the water and organic matter. Keep repeating this until the water is clean. Then with it sitting in the plate, increase the water flow until the very small sand is washing out into the plate. When most of the tiny sand in the jar is gone, check the sand in the plate. If there is gold in the plate, you ran the water to fast, start over. If not then pour off the water in the jar and refill it to 1/2. Now swirl the water and sand mixture for a while and every minute or so, pour off the water and put in new. After about five minutes or so, you'll start seeing more and more flake and black sand in the very bottom of the jar.

Then you can pour off all the water and you'll be able to tip the jar over and see the gold in the very bottom. Take the sand in the plate and toss it outside. I started with about three inches of sand and when I was satisfied, I was left with about an inch. But the whole bottom of the jar is covered with flakes! The picture is a bit deceiving... I couldn't get them all to shine at the same time!

 

[The Beep Goes On]

That's great DigEmAll! Hmmm....I wonder if the rancher will let you set up a sluice, or something?

HH!
TBGO

 

[TXKajun]

Hot damn, digemall!!!! Get out the gold pan and get busy! Get out your nugget detector and get busy! Bag up the black sand and send it to me! I'll pan it and send ya back the gold! (well, most of it......ok, some of it for sure! LOL) Heck, just give me a call and I'll bring one or 3 of each! LOL

Sounds like you've hit the big time. Way to go, man!

HH, ya'll!

Kajun

 

[DigEmAll]

Yeah Beep, the rancher probably would let me set up a sluice... then spend all day neglecting his cattle just to laugh at me.? LOL? Small problem with this idea... there isn't any water anywhere near the wash.? Only time there is water near there would be when it rains. If you have ever been in a desert monsoon rainstorm, the bottom of a wash is the very last place you'd want to be! LOL

Same goes for the panning idea Kajun.? I'll probably just carry a five gallon bucket with me and get a bucket full after hunting... if I can still shovel after digging up a couple hundred pieces of wire and pot metal!? LOL? I'm telling you... that dirt is like concrete!!!

That'll give me something to do during the week after work.

Anyway, thanks for the well wishes guys!

 

[EDDE]

LUCK

 

[DigEmAll]

Update...

Today I hunted for about six hours and never got close to the station. I found: one horseshoe, two 12GA shell casings, and two .44 Mag casings. All the casings were early turn of the century casings.

Also found more matates, one part of a broken arrowhead, two small manos (not for the matates though), a piece of broken indian pottery, and the neck to a hand blown whiskey bottle.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Also found more matates, one part of a broken arrowhead, two small manos (not for the matates though), a piece of broken indian pottery, and the neck to a hand blown whiskey bottle.
~~~~~~~

A) HOLA diggem , I have a no. of those holes in the rocks, in almost every case they are in or near old watercourses. I now firmly believe that most were made by natural water currents grinding them.

I also know of two recoveries of gold coins etc from them. They were natural depositories. All one had to do was to clean one out, put in your whatever, then fill the rest of the space with similar gravel, sand & rocks. HINT, HINT, Detect them all!

As for the Gold, you may just have your retirement there. There are a no. of excellent small production units on the market that work just fine in DRY conditions. they run from dry washers to collecting wheels (spirals), check.

A thumb rule is that if you can SEE gold in a rock, it is very worth while to locate it's source. Visible gold means rich ore.

I have seen literally hundreds of matates, lost, abandoned, and in use, I believe that a cone shaped hole would be too slow, awkard and inefficient. The fact that you found two small manos means tha they probably used conventional matates.

Yes I know about cone mills heheh.

Anyway, go have the time of your life and start going to the Union Bank of Switzerland --hehehe.

till eulenspeigle - Jose de La Mancha

 

[SomeGuy]

The .44 Mag was introduced in 1956, so it's not early turn of the century.

What you need to process the gold is a drywasher, for seperating gold without the use of water. Here are a few links; do a google search.

http://www.therockerbox.com/drywashing.htm


http://miningold.com/dry.html


http://www.vintageprojects.com/misc/dry-washer-prospecting-plans.html