code of ethics

[northoceanbeach]

alright, i have read too many posts from people returning rings and such. and some even go to great lengths to try to find the owner, even after many. many years. OK, look. we are treasure hunters, this is a treasure hunter forum. not a charity forum. what are you using your metal detector for? i mean what's the point if once you find anything that has any value you just return it. or turn it over to the police! if i found someone's wedding rind i would be selling that mofo. finders keepers brotha. and if your lost property means so much to you; you shouldn't be trying to impress people by wearing it at the beach or whatever. and besides, it is just stuff, you've really got bigger problems than losing your class ring, if after 20 years you are still fretting about it. pretty soon you will be tracking down king soloman's descendants to let them know you have found his lost treasure! :P

 

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[coinshooter]

Yeah, it can really get the blood flowing on this forum

 

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[lab rat]

Sorry I haven't gotten back to this one in a few days-- Wow! What a live wire!

Wait a minute-- I never called anyone a 'thief'. If you re-read my post, you'll see that I merely compared someone's level of ethics with those of a thief. Different enough, for those who are perceptive and don't over-simplify. As I see it, someone who would sit on a returnable item might easily become a thief, and the line gets a little hazy from my perspective.

Coinshooter, if you think it's so easy to return something without a name engraved, why don't you try it? Because you are afraid of losing your precious find that you 'value' so much? I have tried it, unsuccessfully, many times. Maybe you think I should hire a private investigator at $500 a day to locate the owner of something I found. As with all things physical, natural, and scientifically pursued there is a point of diminishing returns.

I agree that a 'reasonable effort' no doubt will be different from individual to individual, and each person needs to draw the line where he/she sees fit. I simply don't agree that where lots of unique information is available on a particular find that someone who can easily find the owner should do nothing. It is as unreasonable to sit on a find with lots of information (ie a class ring with name, school, year, etc.) that can be returned and claim it as your own as it is to interview everyone on the planet to return a single unmarked item.

There has to be a balance somewhere. If you've got balance, there's no need to struggle over it.

 

[coinshooter]

Labrat, I wasn't specifically harping on you, just the general idea that people on here preach about being so honest, yet when someone brings up a rhetorical question about a large sum of bullion, the stakes are greater and they all lean towards the dishonest side of things (except you of course - your mom brought you up well , with ethics),
(LR from post about bullion)- "I really think it is a better way to treat it as winning the lottery-- do your legal homework, pay your taxes, and invest the remainder." -

What a good boy you are! Your mom and dad must be proud!!

You and I differ greatly on the "thief" aspect. You consider it "thief-like", I consider it as "finders keepers". If it's thief-like, then how can you justify any of the other "owned" items that you have in your possesion. Just because you can or cannot I.D. them does not mean that someone doesn't own every piece you have. What makes these ones different? Because they have a name, obviously. But this is where our opinions differ on value!

But as far as the others, I have no sympathy for them. What a bunch of hypocrates!!

 

[salvatorparadise]

alright, i have read too many posts from people returning rings and such.? and some even go to great lengths to try to find the owner, even after many. many years.? OK, look.? we are treasure hunters, this is a treasure hunter forum.? not a charity forum.? what are you using your metal detector for?? i mean what's the point if once you find anything that has any value you just return it.? or turn it over to the police!? if i found someone's wedding rind i would be selling that mofo.? finders keepers brotha. and if your lost property means so much to you; you shouldn't be trying to impress people by wearing it at the beach or whatever.? and besides, it is just stuff, you've really got bigger problems than losing your class ring, if after 20 years you are still fretting about it.? pretty soon you will be tracking down king soloman's descendants to let them know you have found his lost treasure! :P

i'm less concerned about what it is you're saying, we all have a right to keep things should we choose, but what is disconcerting is your desire to broadcast this in front of everyone and then rub it in everyone's face. We do this for different reasons, and to find something really valuable can make some people feel great, and returning it can make some people feel even better. Blasting others for what they do, especially if what they're doing is a good thing, is downright unkind. look inside yourself and ask why you made such a big deal about your feelings. maybe next time you find a high school ring you should give it back, because if you really felt so great about keeping it, you wouldn't have to tell everyone.

 

[nedigger]

DUCK!!!! Someone just threw a chair. Missed me by that much. I just stepped into the room to find out if anyone knows if King Tut has any living relatives. There are a bunch of his possessions floating around in the museums. I think they should return them. Oh, and I think those archaeologists should stop robbing graves. Talk about ethics. Sheesh! Anyway what each person does with their finds is that persons business. Your conscience will guide you. I'm not mad at any of you (as long as you keep filling in your holes and at least throw away some of the trash you dig). Just keep in mind...we all come into this world with nothing and leave with just as much...enjoy it while you can. Now, commence to fightin". Just don't call me any names 'cause my feelins' are real tender. HH.

 

[nedigger]

One more point (I just couldn't keep my big trap shut). All those old coins you have found and are now proudly sitting/displayed in your collection...they all have the owner's name stamped on them. Uncle Sam would be tickled pink if you returned them. The line starts here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. I'm not taking sides just making a point ...where do you draw the line?

 

[True_Metal]

Like i said before. Whatever floats your boat. I dont give a sh*t what anyone does with their finds. They put the work into finding the stuff, so as i see it's theirs to do with as they please. Who am i to say different.

 

[lab rat]

Well, let's see--

If there are still any doubts, perhaps we should look in the original book of ethics. ?I find two interesting sentences that can be applied here:

..."Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's" ?-- Mark 12:17

"The silver is mine, and the gold is mine," saith the Lord of Hosts. ?-- Haggai 2:8

With this in mind, it is plain that all gold and/ or silver belongs to GOD, and so that's who I'll return it to. ?After all, who can argue with GOD ?So as soon as he comes over to collect, I'll have it ready. ?Or maybe he'll let me bring it with when I go to meet him! ?

 

[Moonshadow]

Well said Diggin D! Sittin here scratchin my head...this is almost as good as a Springer episode! Trea-sure...Trea-sure...Trea-sure!

I agree with the general opinions here. If your conscience tells you to make a resonable effort to contact the owner....then so be it. If not.....oh well! I strongly agree that EVERYTHING we find once belonged to someone else. I'm not knocking down any doors trying to return that silver dime I found last week!

Play nice and Hunt hard!

Moon

 

[Darren in NC]

I know you are, but what am I?

Sorry...couldn't resist ?

 

[nedigger]

Inject a little humor and everyone smiles. HH to all!

 

[True_Metal]

LOL! And now if we could just get some toothless, lesbian, strippers to jump in on the battle, this thread would be complete!

 

[Dirtypaws]

Workin' hard every day
Never notice how
the time slips away
People come, seasons go
We got something
that'll never grow old.

I don't care
if the sun don't shine
And the rain keeps pouring
down on me and mine
'Cause our kind of love
never seems to get old
It's better than silver and gold.

I used to have a treasure chest
Got so heavy that I had to rest
I let it slip away from me
Didn't need it anyway
so I let it slip away.

I don't care
if the sun don't shine
And the rain keeps pouring
down on me and mine
'Cause our kind of love
never seems to get old
It's better than silver and gold.

I don't care
if the sun don't shine
And the rain keeps pouring
down on me and mine
'Cause our kind of love
never seems to get old
It's better than silver and gold.

------Neil Young

Just gotta keep things in perspective I guess
Good post Coinshooter...Like an honest person..Not afraid to speak their mind.

DirtyPaws

 

[lab rat]

Well, besides those two lines from the "Big Important Book on Life and Ethics", there is what the law says:

At least in my State (California) the law is written in such a way that an item is declared 'lost' when an owner misplaces it accidently. It legally still belongs to that person so long as that person believes he/she can hope to recover it and makes a reasonable effort toward such a recovery. If that person gives up, and the item is found subsequently, then it belongs to the finder.

So it seems that if a ring is lost today and that person walks away, and I find it tonight, I can legally claim it. Gray areas start to show up if that person hangs around waiting for someone with a detector to show up, or comes back the next day with a detector of his/her own. But if we never meet, who can prove which way it should go?

Years ago I heard in a detecting club that the suggested moral code was this: If you find something, run an ad in the 'Lost and Found' section of the newspaper. This can usually be done for free to the finder for an ad that runs 3 days. If someone can describe it, its theirs. If not, its yours.

Police have told me that if you find something worth $100 or more, it should be turned in to them. If after 90 days nobody claims it, its yours and you get it back. If an item is worth less than $100, it isn't worth worrying about.

So Coinshooter, you seem hazy on determining when -exactly- ownership of an item shifts from the loser to the finder, if ever. Which of these (if any) do you think is reasonable, and why? If others are unreasonable, why is that? I'm not accusing you or chastizing your opinion. I'd really just like to understand why you might think something I found 5 years ago, for which I've tried and couldn't find the original owner, might in your mind still belong to him/her, and contradictorially why you think that returning a ring you found with someone's name on it shouldn't be pursued? It seems to me that one needs to decide for himself what is 'fair' or 'ethical', and just be consistent with it and let it rest at that.

BTW-- I don't base my own sense of morality or ethics on how proud my parents may or may not be. That comes directly from my own conscience and nowhere else. You are free to disagree with the values I've chosen, but you should know I've given a lot of thought to them and won't dismiss them easily. Where I have 'drawn the line' is arrived at after careful consideration, and all I have to do is see where any particular item falls in regard to that line. Hopefully this will help you decide where you should draw yours.

 

[coinshooter]

I guess as far as CA law is concerned, the ring is mine. But I guess in my mind, I have justified things to a point by drawing the line at, if there is an inscription on the inside of the ring that can be traced to an owner, then regardless of how long it has been lost, it still says it's their property, but according to CA law, this is not the case (if they finally abandon the search). Oh, woe is me... I'm sooooo confused!!!! I've already made up my mind on this ring and I'm not saying anymore about it specifically.
As far as the cops are concerned, I don't trust them to give anything back, so that's out. They can just as easily say they lost it (but I know they didn't do this with your gun, Labrat. That 's totally surprises me that they would have given this back).
As far as when ownership shifts, I still feel ownership shift to me when I find it. My beef is still with the folks on here that say that "may your soul rest in hell for keeping a lousy piece of gold that is someone else's (actual words from the past on here directed at me because I was honest enough to say I wanted to keep an inscribed ring I liked), however, I guess I should just let this lie, as it seems there are relatively few people taking that stance this time around. It IS interesting though that when the stakes go up to a bunch of bullion instead of a crappy ring, people's opinions on being honest change rapidly. Human nature I guess.
As far as the question we have all been discussing, yes, it is up to the individual to determine their own "code of ethics". That is the reason I have pondered this question and brought it up. Because there ARE differing viewpoints. It is very interesting to us as readers to see what they are. Yes, I have been struggling with mine. That is why this post touched a nerve. Especially when the name calling started at the top of the thread.
It's easy to step back and throw stones, but if you treasure hunt long enough, this will happen to each and every one of you. Then you will see where YOUR true "ethics" stand.

 

[lab rat]

For those still wondering about how to deal with these types of issues, I recommend "The Pearl" by John Steinbeck. Great story. (I posted a synopsis under the bullion thread "quick question" under "Today's Finds".)

 

[diggummup]

Hey northoceanbeach,did you achieve your objective here?Did you actually have an objectiveOr are your statements merely the ramblings of an unscrupulous,I know everything,the world owes me a life,screw everyone else "young fart"?You've got 38 replies and no feedback from you.Step up,become a man,explain yourself!!!!!!!signed not yet an" old fart" and definitely not a right wing conservative.

 

[coinshooter]

I think he was a hit and run victim (or maybe a run and hit victim?). 8)

 

[True_Metal]

He is/was most likely what are known on other interest forums as a "Troll". Trolls make posts containing known controversial subjects in the hopes of stirring up a flamewar between the other members of the forum with the intention of never returning to defend their statements or beliefs.

 

[lab rat]

No war here-- just serious introspection!

8)